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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 10:48:18 GMT -5
One of two people that has a chance to win the FedEx championship with a win at the Tour Championship. Is that not the epitome of the 1%?!?! No offense meant, just stating fact. Sweeney stole my 1% and won't give it back I think a top 15 WGR player conceding to Mr. Sweeney shows the big gap involved here. There is such a huge gap from the top 5 players to the 50th ranked player. They (Mr 50th ranked for example) is much closer to the 100th ranked than to the #1 thru #5 player. That is a part of why I oppose an elite tour. The 100% vs 90% I even pause at not because of the top players, but the rank and file players among the PGA/Euro tours. Not that I am opposed. It is a vaild proposal, but I still maintain my geographic element to holing a tour card (even if some among the minority choose to hold the opposite). |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 10:49:29 GMT -5
I feel sandwiched between the 99% and the 1%...what does that make me? A politician. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 16, 2016 10:55:19 GMT -5
May i just ask, why is the euro tour being made a scapegoat here, why should i potentially lose 10 % of wgr points playing on the Tour i want to play on? I and many others have worked hard 2 be where we are/ have got to, now we are going to be potentially punished for not playing on the Pga. It seems like u want new players to come in and see the names Sweeney, Murphy, Garcia, Ray, Cairns etc etc (Top Dogs ) playing on the Pga, and thinking that, that is the place to be, it also seems like the Euro Tour is being played as Second fiddle to Pga, NO THEY ARE EQUAL, that is what u have always said, plus it seems like the Euro Tour is being punished for having bad threads during the season, but this might not be the case, ( Sorry if im wrong) As i have said before why change anything, just to accomodate some? Seems like the goalposts are being moved for no apparent reason. Yep, fair point |
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Post by Doyley on Sept 16, 2016 10:56:20 GMT -5
Sweeney stole my 1% and won't give it back Not sure if you got what I meant, but I meant for both seasons. I didn't catch that - Need you to be my campaign manager - you find ways to make me look good! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 11:01:03 GMT -5
Here is the player number breakdown (as of now) for all of TGCT
CC-Z 394
CC-E 907
CC-D 486
CC-C 412
CC-B 361
CC-A 231
Web 465
Euro 230
PGA 242
That's 3728 total players on the books
Here are the turnouts for the last event
CC-Z 77
CC-E 112
CC-D 122
CC-C 92
CC-B 86
CC-A 77
Web 233
Euro 78
PGA 70
Forget the pro tiers. They're actually not relevant to the point I'm about to make
CC saw a total turnout of about 550 players. That's out of about 2,700 players. So about 80% of the CC player base has already stopped caring about this game. And they have nothing to do with top tier competitive, not competitive or what have you. They couldn't care less.
The average life span of a video game is about 3-6 months. That's the industry average. Most people have moved on after that.
Any exodus from TGCT has less to do with TGCT than people just getting tired of doing the same thing for any length of time. Especially when it comes to games.
That is the reality. You can do whatever you like with this format. You can cover it in bacon grease and feed it to pigeons. It's not going to miraculously get more people to play. And, if you're not careful, may actually alienate the hard core games attracted to this setup because it DOES mimic real life. You mess with that and then you are just another game.
TGC 2 is going to shake up a lot of this stuff. I have no idea how good I will play with a new swing mechanic. Nobody does. Not even IJS. I may very well be saying goodbye to my time in Web. Trying to make plans for a game that could be so radically different from the one we're playing now is futile at best and just downright ridiculous at worst.
In reality, the only thing this thread has served is in entertainment value for a few of us.
Personally, I want my money back.
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Post by biyombo on Sept 16, 2016 11:01:15 GMT -5
May i just ask, why is the euro tour being made a scapegoat here, why should i potentially lose 10 % of wgr points playing on the Tour i want to play on? I and many others have worked hard 2 be where we are/ have got to, now we are going to be potentially punished for not playing on the Pga. It seems like u want new players to come in and see the names Sweeney, Murphy, Garcia, Ray, Cairns etc etc (Top Dogs ) playing on the Pga, and thinking that, that is the place to be, it also seems like the Euro Tour is being played as Second fiddle to Pga, NO THEY ARE EQUAL, that is what u have always said, plus it seems like the Euro Tour is being punished for having bad threads during the season, but this might not be the case, ( Sorry if im wrong) As i have said before why change anything, just to accomodate some? Seems like the goalposts are being moved for no apparent reason. Because Europe has caused all the world's problems since the Roman empire  |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 11:05:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure why we need to get rid or change up the PGA/Euro at all?
Just make an elite tour. The top 50 in the the world boom are moved there.
Their events can mirror the PGA or the Euro (they can vote on it) and it would duplicate the original TGCT PGA or Euro tour.
From there you can do one of two things.
1. Make majors and such events that both the elite and the regular tours can play together. Meaning the top 50 elite and the top 70ish folks of the other two tours get the invites.
In this case majors would still mean something and there would be some cross over during the majors.
2. Make it where there are separate majors on the Elite tour and on the PGA/Euro tour where each will have their own majors and championship playoffs.
a. Anyone who wants to play on the Elite tour can do so and who has a PGA / EURO card can move up.
b. Any one who is in the bottom 10% of the Elite tour for ( X ) number of events can opt to move down to the PGA / Euro
c. Two sets of majors like the TST / PGA has now.
d. This keeps the PGA / Euro tournament still equal and people can still move back n forth.
e. This allows people who want to play against the top elite week in and week out a path to do so.
f. You can name the tour after the elite champion from the year prior.
You basically have two two tours then playing the same courses like the TST and PGA does now. Those people who want to play with the Elites can either do it at the majors if option one is chosen or can opt to move into that tour. Pretty much fixes everything although people will whine about having two sets of majors/tournaments but I remind you we already have that with TST/PGA.
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 16, 2016 11:12:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure why we need to get rid or change up the PGA/Euro at all? Just make an elite tour. The top 50 in the the world boom are moved there. Their events can mirror the PGA or the Euro (they can vote on it) and it would duplicate the original TGCT PGA or Euro tour. From there you can do one of two things. 1. Make majors and such events that both the elite and the regular tours can play together. Meaning the top 50 elite and the top 70ish folks of the other two tours get the invites.In this case majors would still mean something and there would be some cross over during the majors. 2. Make it where there are separate majors on the Elite tour and on the PGA/Euro tour where each will have their own majors and championship playoffs. a. Anyone who wants to play on the Elite tour can do so and who has a PGA / EURO card can move up. b. Any one who is in the bottom 10% of the Elite tour for ( X ) number of events can opt to move down to the PGA / Euro c. Two sets of majors like the TST / PGA has now. d. This keeps the PGA / Euro tournament still equal and people can still move back n forth. e. This allows people who want to play against the top elite week in and week out a path to do so. f. You can name the tour after the elite champion from the year prior. You basically have two two tours then playing the same courses like the TST and PGA does now. Those people who want to play with the Elites can either do it at the majors if option one is chosen or can opt to move into that tour. Pretty much fixes everything although people will whine about having two sets of majors/tournaments but I remind you we already have that with TST/PGA. This is pretty good. Personally, I'm most in favor of Warrior's proposal, if anything were to change, but I could live with this. Still somewhat against the idea (mostly because of the loss of realism), but I will gladly accept the challenge should the administrators decide to move in that direction. Bring it on!  |
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 16, 2016 11:13:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure why we need to get rid or change up the PGA/Euro at all? Just make an elite tour. The top 50 in the the world boom are moved there. Their events can mirror the PGA or the Euro (they can vote on it) and it would duplicate the original TGCT PGA or Euro tour. From there you can do one of two things. 1. Make majors and such events that both the elite and the regular tours can play together. Meaning the top 50 elite and the top 70ish folks of the other two tours get the invites.In this case majors would still mean something and there would be some cross over during the majors. 2. Make it where there are separate majors on the Elite tour and on the PGA/Euro tour where each will have their own majors and championship playoffs. a. Anyone who wants to play on the Elite tour can do so and who has a PGA / EURO card can move up. b. Any one who is in the bottom 10% of the Elite tour for ( X ) number of events can opt to move down to the PGA / Euro c. Two sets of majors like the TST / PGA has now. d. This keeps the PGA / Euro tournament still equal and people can still move back n forth. e. This allows people who want to play against the top elite week in and week out a path to do so. f. You can name the tour after the elite champion from the year prior. You basically have two two tours then playing the same courses like the TST and PGA does now. Those people who want to play with the Elites can either do it at the majors if option one is chosen or can opt to move into that tour. Pretty much fixes everything although people will whine about having two sets of majors/tournaments but I remind you we already have that with TST/PGA. Seems the more you think about it the more you like it, wouldn't have anything to do with the fact if you moved top 50 to elite tour you would now be one of the better players left on pga/euro now competing for majors again, because going by what you previously said it got boring trying to compete for top 25 s. so you wouldn't enjoy being on the elite tour competing for top 40s then?
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Post by Doyley on Sept 16, 2016 11:14:42 GMT -5
May i just ask, why is the euro tour being made a scapegoat here, why should i potentially lose 10 % of wgr points playing on the Tour i want to play on? I and many others have worked hard 2 be where we are/ have got to, now we are going to be potentially punished for not playing on the Pga. It seems like u want new players to come in and see the names Sweeney, Murphy, Garcia, Ray, Cairns etc etc (Top Dogs ) playing on the Pga, and thinking that, that is the place to be, it also seems like the Euro Tour is being played as Second fiddle to Pga, NO THEY ARE EQUAL, that is what u have always said, plus it seems like the Euro Tour is being punished for having bad threads during the season, but this might not be the case, ( Sorry if im wrong) As i have said before why change anything, just to accomodate some? Seems like the goalposts are being moved for no apparent reason. Yep, fair point What I want is the top players playing together more regularly - beyond Majors/WGC events. Obviously every week didn't fly but more than 8 times a year. That hopefully answers your why questions Smiffy - just trying to find a way to implement it without forcing it on players. Obviously if losing 10% of your WGR points doesn't entice you to swap tours - and you'd rather cash a small check for R2D reasons - the idea won't fly. But if people do crossover for WGR points and have plenty of R2D money in the bank (looking at you top 10 euro guys) then why wouldn't they cross over, play pga, get full WGR points and the less prestigious Euro events all of a sudden become more competitive for the mid-range player at the cost of a bit less WGR points. That's my view on it really - there's no loss for guys in top 10 since the money would be insignificant to those at the top of the money list. Take Week 5 (Euro) in Season 2: Sweeney win nets him $112,000 5th place: $42,000 10th place: $28,000 For those types of events - would you rather finish 10th and get $28,000 and 90% WGR or go PGA where money doesn't mean much - win a boatload of it - but get full WGR points (which is a more valuable commodity if you're trying to improve your WGR position). To Sweeney and his $20,000,000 winnings on Euro - it's a drop in the bucket. Humphries won 50k for a 4th place finish. He had a $1.5 million dollar gap between him and next guy on the R2D money list. That 4th place finish in a small purse event was a drop in the bucket for his money totals. He could have completely skipped the event and still be 1.45 million ahead of the next guy. Those are the types of decisions I think would influence people to create a stronger field a few more times a season. The WGR % could be tweaked obviosuly - whatever # starts to get guys thinking - maybe it's not 90%, maybe it's 85%, 80% etc...at some point you will start to weigh the option of winning a bit of money vs getting full WGR points. I just want it to be as little a change as possible which is why I started at 90%  |
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 11:17:10 GMT -5
I'm all about choice. Some people will want to play against the top guys, others want to compete vs those at their level and still others may give the elite a try at some point during their season, tho you could limit the cross overs.
The down side is that the WGR. You would need two lists or you would have to limit the weight on the PGA/Euro tours.
I think it is worth the thought and considering season 3 would be a shortened season anyway (with no majors until TGCT 2 comes out) it may be a good trial period.
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 16, 2016 11:22:32 GMT -5
Seems the more you think about it the more you like it, wouldn't have anything to do with the fact if you moved top 50 to elite tour you would now be one of the better players left on pga/euro now competing for majors again, because going by what you previously said it got boring trying to compete for top 25 s. so you wouldn't enjoy being on the elite tour competing for top 40s then?
My proposal is about choice. Does a player want to play against the elite players or do they want to play against people who are more along their own skill set? The money is the same, the tournies are the same and the Fed ex/R2D points are the same. Even the WGR could be the same just two sets. |
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on Sept 16, 2016 11:23:19 GMT -5
What I want is the top players playing together more regularly - beyond Majors/WGC events. Obviously every week didn't fly but more than 8 times a year. That hopefully answers your why questions Smiffy - just trying to find a way to implement it without forcing it on players. Obviously if losing 10% of your WGR points doesn't entice you to swap tours - and you'd rather cash a small check for R2D reasons - the idea won't fly. But if people do crossover for WGR points and have plenty of R2D money in the bank (looking at you top 10 euro guys) then why wouldn't they cross over, play pga, get full WGR points and the less prestigious Euro events all of a sudden become more competitive for the mid-range player at the cost of a bit less WGR points. That's my view on it really - there's no loss for guys in top 10 since the money would be insignificant to those at the top of the money list. Take Week 5 (Euro) in Season 2: Sweeney win nets him $112,000 5th place: $42,000 10th place: $28,000 For those types of events - would you rather finish 10th and get $28,000 and 90% WGR or go PGA where money doesn't mean much - win a boatload of it - but get full WGR points (which is a more valuable commodity if you're trying to improve your WGR position). To Sweeney and his $20,000,000 winnings on Euro - it's a drop in the bucket. Humphries won 50k for a 4th place finish. He had a $1.5 million dollar gap between him and next guy on the R2D money list. That 4th place finish in a small purse event was a drop in the bucket for his money totals. He could have completely skipped the event and still be 1.45 million ahead of the next guy. Those are the types of decisions I think would influence people to create a stronger field a few more times a season. The WGR % could be tweaked obviosuly - whatever # starts to get guys thinking - maybe it's not 90%, maybe it's 85%, 80% etc...at some point you will start to weigh the option of winning a bit of money vs getting full WGR points. I just want it to be as little a change as possible which is why I started at 90% If you could find a way to get all (or nearly all) the elites in the same tourney about 20 times a year, that would be perfect, IMO. This year it was about 10, I think (4 majors, 4 WGCs, PLAYERS, Olympics), so doubling that number would be great. I think the main problem is scheduling, though. Too many high-quality tourneys are held from late March to mid August, so it'd be preferable if the additional "elite" events were spaced out better. I don't know which ones to pick as additional "elite" events, but I suppose it could be an arbitrary decision on the administrators' part. |
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Post by ijs1543 on Sept 16, 2016 11:24:23 GMT -5
Seems the more you think about it the more you like it, wouldn't have anything to do with the fact if you moved top 50 to elite tour you would now be one of the better players left on pga/euro now competing for majors again, because going by what you previously said it got boring trying to compete for top 25 s. so you wouldn't enjoy being on the elite tour competing for top 40s then?
My proposal is about choice. Does a player want to play against the elite players or do they want to play against people who are more along their own skill set? The money is the same, the tournies are the same and the Fed ex/R2D points are the same. Even the WGR could be the same just two sets. Smurf wheres your billy Madison post mate |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 11:26:25 GMT -5
Ron, okay, I'm actually trying to follow this now.
Let's say you have 500 players combined between PGA and Euro. And you move the top 50 to an elite tour.
Now, let's say I somehow make it to the PGA. Are you saying, even though I am ranked like 450th, I can still opt to play in the elite tour against Ian and company, even knowing that out of 51 players I will finish 51st?
If so, will I make more money playing there, even finishing 51st than playing in the regular PGA and either missing the cut or just about making it and finishing, say, 68th?
If the answer is yes, I might go for it. I still don't like the idea of forcing the best players out of the regular leagues just to make it easier for everybody else, but personally, if I can still play against Ian and company even though I stink in comparison, I would be okay with this on a personal level.
Naturally, that is being totally selfish and because of that would still not support this idea if it came down to an official vote. But I can see some "incentive" for me if the answers to all my questions are yes.
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