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Post by splittailace on Aug 2, 2016 1:13:03 GMT -5
Amidst all the craziness that was the PGA spoilers thread last week, there was a lot of talk about the pin placements vs. course conditions.
A suggestion here. Run the largest polling that the site has ever done. Run multiple polls that cover all of the complaints/issues in order to create a new set of tournament course/conditions selection criteria.
Polls:
Pin placement vs green speed/firmness........How far off of any fringe around a green can a pin be set? At max firm? At softest? Poll the community for all firmness settings (could be determined using green grid blocks as a consistent measuring tool)
Green size vs green speed/firmness........What is the ideal size green for max firm? Softest? Poll the community for all firmness settings (could use an x,y axis of green grid blocks as a measurement) 20 grid blocks x 20 grid blocks at the widest parts of the green as an example.
Run ups vs green speed/firmness...........How wide, in relation to the size of the front of a green should the fairway be for max firm? Softest? Poll the community..
Just a few ideas of different polls that could be ran to get an idea of what the true feeling of the community is on all this. I realize that this would put designers in a tighter box but it might be a necessary evil??
I'd be curious to see what others might think...
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Post by Doyley on Aug 2, 2016 11:43:58 GMT -5
Members can create posts w/ polls - at this point I don't see admin creating the amount of polls you are asking for - but if it's something you do I'm sure members will participate that take an interest in the questions asked.
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Post by mrooola on Aug 2, 2016 12:05:54 GMT -5
While you are at it you might add a poll to set a course for each tour to be used for the rest of this games life cycle. Because I have a hard time believing designers would put up with what you are suggesting anyway.
No I didn't add anything constructive this time either. If you think it's a problem then run the polls yourself. When you are done with that and have some sort of results you can present that along with a suggestion in the suggestion box.
Why ask admins to do what you can do yourself? If you think involving admins will give the polls more attention I would guess you are correct. However if you don't you will more likely attract more users with shared opinions so that would probably be in you favour.
You are welcome.
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Post by hershalcrustofsk on Aug 2, 2016 12:44:47 GMT -5
I would really hope we never head down a path where we're standardizing golf courses for tours. I want to play different courses each week, with different looks, challenge and overall difficulties. I think designers need to be cognizant of how many "unhittable" greens (or at least unappoachable hole locations) they make on a course each round, but that's about it. Other than that, let people enjoy using their own creativity.
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Post by splittailace on Aug 2, 2016 15:35:08 GMT -5
Wow. I really thought this would be an interesting thing that could be done to address issues that are clearly ongoing. Scott suggests that I do the polling. If I created the polls would they be used as a revaluation tool of tourney criteria?
Mroola you can ignore anything I post from now on if it'll help you sleep better at night. Geez
^ clearly some hatred coming from this one
Ok well here I'm suggesting fixes for the elephant in the room that is course/condition selection.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 6:21:43 GMT -5
People will moan whatever happens. Just try and not put any pins near yellow/red slopes and have easier to access pins if firm and tougher to access pins when soft. Jobs a gooden.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Aug 3, 2016 6:28:09 GMT -5
I would really hope we never head down a path where we're standardizing golf courses for tours. I want to play different courses each week, with different looks, challenge and overall difficulties. I think designers need to be cognizant of how many "unhittable" greens (or at least unappoachable hole locations) they make on a course each round, but that's about it. Other than that, let people enjoy using their own creativity. Completely agree. I am not a designer but I imagine having a million and one different rules to abide by would be a real pain and would take the creativity/enjoyment out of designing. You would end up with fewer courses of a lower quality with less variety. Surely the opposite of what we want. |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Aug 3, 2016 6:32:28 GMT -5
IMO there is no elephant in the room or an ongoing problem. You are taking a few comments from a really small (but quite loud) percentage of the field and turning it into something far bigger than it is. I played 72 holes on the PGA this week and there were maybe 3/4 pin positions that were questionable. Less than 5%. From a designer (I forget his name  ) who is infamous for tough pin positions. And I still managed to go bogey free for the week so they can't have been that bad  |
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Post by splittailace on Aug 3, 2016 19:20:16 GMT -5
I hear ya. I personally don't like having to play a shot and try to land the ball in rough in order to get close enough to make a birdie. That requires a bigger amount of luck than skill I think. Heaven knows I'm by no means lucky.
Many would say those are just par holes, play for par. I don't think you can just play for par and win though. Otherwise a 72 hole total of -12 might win a tourney.
My suggestion was just trying to address the ongoing complaints. A solution or something.
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Post by paulus on Aug 3, 2016 20:12:45 GMT -5
The underlying problem I think is easily dialed in distances.. the game's only big weakness. I think the course set ups are in some way a reaction to this and to introduce just a little bit of extra randomness, which is part of the real game. Some placements are a bit much - but the scores we see are too - so it's all fair imho. Dialed in distances will be addressed in TGC2  |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Aug 4, 2016 3:14:41 GMT -5
Many would say those are just par holes, play for par. I don't think you can just play for par and win though. Otherwise a 72 hole total of -12 might win a tourney. My suggestion was just trying to address the ongoing complaints. A solution or something. 2-3 holes per round when you have to play for Par isn't a bad thing. As for ongoing complaints. Most of them come from people who would complain about a "Free Candy for every Birdie" inititiave |
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Post by hershalcrustofsk on Aug 5, 2016 11:25:51 GMT -5
I would really hope we never head down a path where we're standardizing golf courses for tours. I want to play different courses each week, with different looks, challenge and overall difficulties. I think designers need to be cognizant of how many "unhittable" greens (or at least unappoachable hole locations) they make on a course each round, but that's about it. Other than that, let people enjoy using their own creativity. Completely agree. I am not a designer but I imagine having a million and one different rules to abide by would be a real pain and would take the creativity/enjoyment out of designing. You would end up with fewer courses of a lower quality with less variety. Surely the opposite of what we want. I am a designer, if standards were set, I wouldn't follow them in hopes of getting a tour event, I would still design for the fun of it. This is just crazy talk, like oswinner said people are going to piss and moan regardless. I'd be one of them moaning as a player if all the course set-ups were similar. |
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Post by edi_vedder on Aug 5, 2016 18:41:40 GMT -5
Amen.
That's exactly what it is, and always will be.
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Post by bassman70 on Aug 5, 2016 19:43:08 GMT -5
let's just play golf...I've said this before...the courses are fine, in fact they're great. Are some of the pins tough? yes. If the set ups were a problem, you would see the top 50 players in WGR shooting -20 for four rounds and have a bunch of bogeys in each round. This week I think we all shot very well...I mean the winning score was -51! I was in the -40's and the rest of the top players shot well also. To me that shows all was fine. No need for any poll in my opinion...a better solution would be for players to practice more and think about the shot and read greens and contours around the greens. The better players do this. I do this every week. i don;t just look at the shot, do the math and hit the ball. Some courses you may get away with that. Once again, the better players know what courses you can do that on. This week, you could not do that. None of us that shoot well are getting lucky, we practice and just take the extra time to hit well thought out shots. I know a lot of players here are grown ups with careers, wives, children, so it may be difficult to put in the extra time. Just be patient and it will all start clicking. I think a lot of the players have a bad hole and want to blame the whole course, call it unfair, blah blah blah. We've had enough drama this week. How about we just appreciate the courses that our staff has picked and as players we just try and learn the game a bit more. Smiling and giving hugs and kisses to all in our community |
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Post by splittailace on Aug 5, 2016 20:46:26 GMT -5
Agreed. I don't complain about the conditions. I rarely agree with pin/condition combinations that we see but I don't complain. I was just thinking of a way to help out those who do.
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) who is infamous for tough pin positions.
