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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 9, 2015 6:05:00 GMT -5
2 very frustrating rnds. -11 & -8 The BS in this game is really winding me up lately. The game is in a poor state at the min imo. We really need to put HB under pressure to either remove or refine the ball squirt. The amount of luck needed to score low on some of these courses is ridiculous. I neither know nor particularly care whether there is randomness in the game or not, but I see this attitude a lot both here and over at HB. Good Result - All Me hitting a perfect shot Bad Result - Game has "screwed me over" Ever considered that a couple of the birdies you made were as a result of the "randomness" doing you a favour? PS - Not getting into a long debate about it as this isn't the place, just really annoys me when people take to every thread to moan about the same thing. If it's THAT broken in your view, don't play. Im sure some Aces are a result of a ball squirt off the tee yes. That doesn make it right. This is a very good golf game with a couple of major flaws so i wont be packing it in because of the randomness (unless it gets worse). I see alot of ur attitude over at the HB forums aswel (Apologists for HB). Some people seem to think being thrown up to 10 yrds offline due to a ball squirt is acceptable. I think its nonsense. As it renders the top level end of the game a lottery.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Sept 9, 2015 6:27:18 GMT -5
I neither know nor particularly care whether there is randomness in the game or not, but I see this attitude a lot both here and over at HB. Good Result - All Me hitting a perfect shot Bad Result - Game has "screwed me over" Ever considered that a couple of the birdies you made were as a result of the "randomness" doing you a favour? PS - Not getting into a long debate about it as this isn't the place, just really annoys me when people take to every thread to moan about the same thing. If it's THAT broken in your view, don't play. Im sure some Aces are a result of a ball squirt off the tee yes. That doesn make it right. This is a very good golf game with a couple of major flaws so i wont be packing it in because of the randomness (unless it gets worse). I see alot of ur attitude over at the HB forums aswel (Apologists for HB). Some people seem to think being thrown up to 10 yrds offline due to a ball squirt is acceptable. I think its nonsense. As it renders the top level end of the game a lottery. Not an apologist for HB or anyone else, i accept the game has many flaws but i have better things to do than whine constantly about them. Like I said, I couldn't care less whether "squirt" exists or not - I play the game because i enjoy it. Once I no longer enjoy it, i'll stop playing it. That's my attitude and it's one that a few people over on the HB forums would do well to take on. Back on topic, I was going really well in this tournament until a massive squirt put me in the left rough at 9 in Round 2 and I made a 6. pssst - Not really, i actually hit a massive hook to the worst possible spot and got exactly what I deserved
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 9, 2015 6:32:19 GMT -5
Im sure some Aces are a result of a ball squirt off the tee yes. That doesn make it right. This is a very good golf game with a couple of major flaws so i wont be packing it in because of the randomness (unless it gets worse). I see alot of ur attitude over at the HB forums aswel (Apologists for HB). Some people seem to think being thrown up to 10 yrds offline due to a ball squirt is acceptable. I think its nonsense. As it renders the top level end of the game a lottery. Not an apologist for HB or anyone else, i accept the game has many flaws but i have better things to do than whine constantly about them. Like I said, I couldn't care less whether "squirt" exists or not - I play the game because i enjoy it. Once I no longer enjoy it, i'll stop playing it. That's my attitude and it's one that a few people over on the HB forums would do well to take on. Back on topic, I was going really well in this tournament until a massive squirt put me in the left rough at 9 in Round 2 and I made a 6. pssst - Not really, i actually hit a massive hook to the worst possible spot and got exactly what I deservedI think its important TGC community pushes HB into adjusting the game thus helping make the best possible experience. If we all cudn care less about things in the game why shud they bother giving us so many updates. Im sure most of us at TGCT play here because we like the game and the competition. So when the random BS in the game decides to throw u 10 yrds offline and its starts costing u tournaments maybe then it will bother u.
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Post by Pubknight on Sept 9, 2015 8:38:37 GMT -5
But... that's golf.
People see the downside of randomness as it affects them, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume other players are subjected to the same randomness. And thus it's how you recover from that randomness that determines the outcome... not the randomness itself.
I think it would be wrong to see it as "I've been affected by this random BS and it cost me a tournament", thinking that no-one else was equally affected by 'random BS' over the course of the tournament.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 9, 2015 8:45:08 GMT -5
But... that's golf. People see the downside of randomness as it affects them, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume other players are subjected to the same randomness. And thus it's how you recover from that randomness that determines the outcome... not the randomness itself. I think it would be wrong to see it as "I've been affected by this random BS and it cost me a tournament", thinking that no-one else was equally affected by 'random BS' over the course of the tournament. Evreryone is affected by randomness but the clue is in its name.....u dont know when or how much it effects ppl. So theorectically i cud get the random BS alot more than you over the course of the tourny. Iv seen testing on this issue aswel. It isnt random for all as far i can see. From what iv seen it effects players with higher handicaps and higher average scores more. Plus we shudn lose sight of the fact its a video game and its supposed to be fun. If i hit a dead straight shot into no wind and miss 10 yrds either side that is not fun, its just stupid. Edit: I dont want to derail this thread anymore so il leave it at this. (For now)
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 9, 2015 10:18:44 GMT -5
Oh I remember the days when there were page long threads about how ball squirt didn't exist...
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Post by Mark (Kram) on Sept 9, 2015 10:26:08 GMT -5
The arbitrary nature of the ball squirt doesn't appear to be random though, during this tourney it happened to several players at the same point, approach to the long par 4 on the b9, with the 3w/5w. I watched DaddyJules go massively right, and I followed him.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 9, 2015 10:28:49 GMT -5
Oh I remember the days when there were page long threads about how ball squirt didn't exist... Them folk hav gone from "it doesn exist" to "its gud for the game".
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Post by Pubknight on Sept 9, 2015 10:58:13 GMT -5
Oh I remember the days when there were page long threads about how ball squirt didn't exist... Do you also remember the days when Anthony said ball squirt exists, but only for people with reduced axis controllers? (which his conflicting responses on, he has yet to definitively clarify btw) And don't worry... if you dig up the stream where he said it affects more people than that... I can dig up his forum post *after* that stream where he contradicted the stream. So the argument can go around and around. There is squirt. But there is no definitive answer on who it affects from HB. There have been answers on it from HB... but they have been conflicting answers at different times. Personally I think the intent is ball squirt is supposed to affect just reduced axis folks. But, what we've seen from the API is there can be some straight shooting 'false positives'. And the 'false positives' are getting 'squirted' as well. That's a theory that I think makes a lot of sense. And would also explain why some people would not have experienced squirt... if they didn't swing that straight to start with, it would likely never affect them. But there are some game bugs that cause what some might call squirt. But it's not squirt if it happens in the same place every time. This course for example, has a couple of tee shots where the shot goes more right than one would expect... but it does it every single time. That's not squirt. That's something quirky in the lie mechanics. I think there is too quick a tendency of people to blame ball squirt when something odd happens. And a lot of times there are other explanations.
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 9, 2015 11:26:04 GMT -5
Oh I remember the days when there were page long threads about how ball squirt didn't exist... Do you also remember the days when Anthony said ball squirt exists, but only for people with reduced axis controllers? (which his conflicting responses on, he has yet to definitively clarify btw) And don't worry... if you dig up the stream where he said it affects more people than that... I can dig up his forum post *after* that stream where he contradicted the stream. So the argument can go around and around. There is squirt. But there is no definitive answer on who it affects from HB. There have been answers on it from HB... but they have been conflicting answers at different times. Personally I think the intent is ball squirt is supposed to affect just reduced axis folks. But, what we've seen from the API is there can be some straight shooting 'false positives'. And the 'false positives' are getting 'squirted' as well. That's a theory that I think makes a lot of sense. And would also explain why some people would not have experienced squirt... if they didn't swing that straight to start with, it would likely never affect them. But there are some game bugs that cause what some might call squirt. But it's not squirt if it happens in the same place every time. This course for example, has a couple of tee shots where the shot goes more right than one would expect... but it does it every single time. That's not squirt. That's something quirky in the lie mechanics. I think there is too quick a tendency of people to blame ball squirt when something odd happens. And a lot of times there are other explanations. He told me it is everywhere and that is one of the reason he wants to get rid of it as it is not working as intended. He was playing a round with Keith and we pointed out a couple of 'squirt' shots of his own. Anthony does want to remove it from the game but the problem is, the leaderboards in place would be unfair as it would be pre-no-squirt and apparently he has an issue with this as he knows scores will lower across the board without it. Whatever causes it now, it is across the board and is part of the game, every game and he wants to remove it completely. I'm good with that.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 9, 2015 11:28:42 GMT -5
Oh I remember the days when there were page long threads about how ball squirt didn't exist... Do you also remember the days when Anthony said ball squirt exists, but only for people with reduced axis controllers? (which his conflicting responses on, he has yet to definitively clarify btw) And don't worry... if you dig up the stream where he said it affects more people than that... I can dig up his forum post *after* that stream where he contradicted the stream. So the argument can go around and around. There is squirt. But there is no definitive answer on who it affects from HB. There have been answers on it from HB... but they have been conflicting answers at different times. Personally I think the intent is ball squirt is supposed to affect just reduced axis folks. But, what we've seen from the API is there can be some straight shooting 'false positives'. And the 'false positives' are getting 'squirted' as well. That's a theory that I think makes a lot of sense. And would also explain why some people would not have experienced squirt... if they didn't swing that straight to start with, it would likely never affect them. But there are some game bugs that cause what some might call squirt. But it's not squirt if it happens in the same place every time. This course for example, has a couple of tee shots where the shot goes more right than one would expect... but it does it every single time. That's not squirt. That's something quirky in the lie mechanics. I think there is too quick a tendency of people to blame ball squirt when something odd happens. And a lot of times there are other explanations. I agree wit most of wat u said. HB hav been really poot with there handling of this issue with regards to clarifying exactly how it works. Ball squirt definetly does not only effect straight lines, iv had many a line with 1 or 2 kinks been shot up to 10 yrds offline. The tee shots on par 3s are where this is most evident in my experience. The lie of tee boxes also hav nothin to do wit squirts. Iv personally tested this.
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Post by smurfblade88 on Sept 9, 2015 11:31:50 GMT -5
Do you also remember the days when Anthony said ball squirt exists, but only for people with reduced axis controllers? (which his conflicting responses on, he has yet to definitively clarify btw) And don't worry... if you dig up the stream where he said it affects more people than that... I can dig up his forum post *after* that stream where he contradicted the stream. So the argument can go around and around. There is squirt. But there is no definitive answer on who it affects from HB. There have been answers on it from HB... but they have been conflicting answers at different times. Personally I think the intent is ball squirt is supposed to affect just reduced axis folks. But, what we've seen from the API is there can be some straight shooting 'false positives'. And the 'false positives' are getting 'squirted' as well. That's a theory that I think makes a lot of sense. And would also explain why some people would not have experienced squirt... if they didn't swing that straight to start with, it would likely never affect them. But there are some game bugs that cause what some might call squirt. But it's not squirt if it happens in the same place every time. This course for example, has a couple of tee shots where the shot goes more right than one would expect... but it does it every single time. That's not squirt. That's something quirky in the lie mechanics. I think there is too quick a tendency of people to blame ball squirt when something odd happens. And a lot of times there are other explanations. He told me it is everywhere and that is one of the reason he wants to get rid of it as it is not working as intended. He was playing a round with Keith and we pointed out a couple of 'squirt' shots of his own. Anthony does want to remove it from the game but the problem is, the leaderboards in place would be unfair as it would be pre-no-squirt and apparently he has an issue with this as he knows scores will lower across the board without it. Whatever causes it now, it is across the board and is part of the game, every game and he wants to remove it completely. I'm good with that. I dont get the leaderboard issue. If everyones scores improve so be it. Course designers will always come up wit designs that challenge us for tournys anyways.
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Sept 9, 2015 14:00:16 GMT -5
#ballsquirtblows
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 9, 2015 18:08:02 GMT -5
As the thread is already derailed....
1. Would not be the first time HB has said one thing and done another or nothing. And that is fine. Leaderboard answer makes no sense since the guys most vocal about removing it are the guys on top of said leaderboards. Also it must be lower prio to spend time on an issue most of the users don't even know or care about and where there may be just as many silently liking it... 2. The game does need more variation, but either it needs to be true random or tied to swing mechanic. Right now the ball lands within a yard of where it's aimed far too often even for a hack like me. HB wants this to mimic real golf and a large part of at least competitive golf is dealing with the sometimes seemingly random mishaps that happen at the worst times. That is what separates the champions from the ball-strikers and course record collectors. 3. The variation should not handicap more skilled players. It will cap how close they can get on average, so some of this effect will be there - but they should not have more variance in absolute terms.
Removing variance completely would be one of the worst things HB could do to the game - in my opinion. "Fixing" the current "squirt" I think is a good idea.
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 9, 2015 18:21:35 GMT -5
Simply lessening the severity of squirt would make me happy. As it is, you can be 40 yards off with a straightish swing with a cross wind.
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