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Post by bhazen on Jan 31, 2023 14:43:06 GMT -5
This is the exact reason why I read this thread . All kidding aside, honestly the above examples of what not to do is exactly what I want to see/hear as a new designer. It expands on the videos that are provided to us. I can tell you right now as a newbie to the game, by just looking at the screen shots from above, I wouldn't come back and play your course again. And remember Tour courses must be played at least 4 times by the top players in the game. If there is so little attention to detail to the sightlines, I would automatically think that pin locations are going to be either unplayable or not well thought out along with a rollouts, sculpting, etc... There is zero reason not to have a "complete" open sightline to your landing zone on the above examples. Shoot, you added a boulder to close off the sightlines even more on one of the tee boxes..... All the reviewer(s) are telling you to do is open the sightlines up and let the course 'come' to the player. They are not telling you the course is bad, they are telling you it doesn't qualify as a Tour Course. Remember A player wants to see the course, that's what they are paying to do IRL, they aren't playing and/or paying to see fences, rocks or grass hills they are paying to play to see the course including its surroundings. For example: on the par5 shot from the fairway (screenshot above) I'd be pissed if I sitting 1, 275yds out from the green, sitting in the middle of the fairway and couldn't see the green complex for my second shot. (If I was off the fairway yeah maybe). I don't care if it was a par5 or not - reward me for hitting the fairway and show me the hole/course. Give me the opportunity to go for my eagle. On a par5, you have the perfect opportunity to show the player what can happen if they "go for the green in 2". Think risk/reward, show the green complex. I think as a designer, we all try to make our course(s) look visually stunning by adding all this crap to the course when we should let the course speak for itself. If I'd created the above holes, on a playthrough I'd stand back before 'zooming' in and ask: Is this a visually enjoyable shot? Can I see the hole? Can I see the direction I'm going? What happens if I shank a shot? Let the hole 'talk' to you. After doing this, I would have automatically removed the fences, rocks and lowered the land between the tee box and landing area. THEN I would have added the 'crap' back in making sure it doesn't take away from the visual sightlines of the hole (none of that crap is necessary to making your hole a good design). Entice the player, they are here to play golf not to see objects. Great designs add the 'crap' in organically to enhance a shot. Think Amen Corner. The flower bank and retaining wall aren't impeding sightlines they enhance the course. Picture of the above approach shot sample above going into Amen Corner....... You'd have missed a great opportunity to showcase your course. Reviewers, keep up the great work and yes be the gatekeepers - hold designers to a higher standard.
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GeneCreemers
Amateur Golfer
I guess this isn't a search bar
Posts: 252
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Post by GeneCreemers on Jan 31, 2023 15:28:26 GMT -5
Remember A player wants to see the course This was a big takeaway I got from WhatAboutAmeobi reviewing my Opal Creek Gorge course. I had a few blind tee shots (3-4 maybe even more?) on that course, and at the time I thought to myself "Well I don't mind them, I'm not sure why everyone else does". But as I play more, design more, and most importantly learn more, I'm starting to understand that point of view more. My current course for the Rookie challenge has zero blind shots, and what I hope players consider to be nice views and sight lines.
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Post by sroel908 on Jan 31, 2023 15:38:40 GMT -5
The thing that everyone seems to hear when "blindness" is mentioned here is "blind is bad". That's not the case.
It's all about the intent. Are you leaving a huge mound in the middle of the fairway, blocking the view of the green on an approach? That's unintentional blindness. Is the ground directly in front of your tee box higher than the tee box itself, blocking the view of the fairway and fairway bunkers? That's unintentional blindness. Do you have a fence running thru the middle of your tee box sightline, or huge bushes planted 10 feet in front of the tees, limiting the view? That's problematic blindness.
If you want to have blind shots on your course, you can. But it must be done with intent. Also, having more than 3 or 4 blind tee shots on your course might not be ideal...just like having 3-4 island green par-3s on your course or something like that. Keep it varied and interesting for the player. Otherwise, it gets a bit repetitious and feels overused.
TL;DR: watch the b101 video. :-)
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Post by Koop on Jan 31, 2023 16:51:59 GMT -5
Thank you all for the feedback.
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Post by mattf27 on Feb 5, 2023 0:59:33 GMT -5
Scorpions Den C.C. - not approved This was pretty close to the approved/not approved line, but lots of really odd (and in some cases dysfunctional) hole concepts push this one over the edge.
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Post by samuelpollard on Feb 23, 2023 14:03:26 GMT -5
This is the exact reason why I read this thread . All kidding aside, honestly the above examples of what not to do is exactly what I want to see/hear as a new designer. It expands on the videos that are provided to us. I can tell you right now as a newbie to the game, by just looking at the screen shots from above, I wouldn't come back and play your course again. And remember Tour courses must be played at least 4 times by the top players in the game. If there is so little attention to detail to the sightlines, I would automatically think that pin locations are going to be either unplayable or not well thought out along with a rollouts, sculpting, etc... There is zero reason not to have a "complete" open sightline to your landing zone on the above examples. Shoot, you added a boulder to close off the sightlines even more on one of the tee boxes..... All the reviewer(s) are telling you to do is open the sightlines up and let the course 'come' to the player. They are not telling you the course is bad, they are telling you it doesn't qualify as a Tour Course. Remember A player wants to see the course, that's what they are paying to do IRL, they aren't playing and/or paying to see fences, rocks or grass hills they are paying to play to see the course including its surroundings. For example: on the par5 shot from the fairway (screenshot above) I'd be pissed if I sitting 1, 275yds out from the green, sitting in the middle of the fairway and couldn't see the green complex for my second shot. (If I was off the fairway yeah maybe). I don't care if it was a par5 or not - reward me for hitting the fairway and show me the hole/course. Give me the opportunity to go for my eagle. On a par5, you have the perfect opportunity to show the player what can happen if they "go for the green in 2". Think risk/reward, show the green complex. I think as a designer, we all try to make our course(s) look visually stunning by adding all this crap to the course when we should let the course speak for itself. If I'd created the above holes, on a playthrough I'd stand back before 'zooming' in and ask: Is this a visually enjoyable shot? Can I see the hole? Can I see the direction I'm going? What happens if I shank a shot? Let the hole 'talk' to you. After doing this, I would have automatically removed the fences, rocks and lowered the land between the tee box and landing area. THEN I would have added the 'crap' back in making sure it doesn't take away from the visual sightlines of the hole (none of that crap is necessary to making your hole a good design). Entice the player, they are here to play golf not to see objects. Great designs add the 'crap' in organically to enhance a shot. Think Amen Corner. The flower bank and retaining wall aren't impeding sightlines they enhance the course. Picture of the above approach shot sample above going into Amen Corner....... You'd have missed a great opportunity to showcase your course. Reviewers, keep up the great work and yes be the gatekeepers - hold designers to a higher standard. I completely agree with your perspective. As a designer, it's important to prioritize the player's experience and ensure that the course provides a fair and enjoyable challenge while also being visually appealing. It's crucial to consider the sightlines and make sure that players can see where they need to hit their shots. Adding unnecessary obstacles or objects can detract from the course's beauty and distract players from their game. Besides if we draw attention to the writings they offer then we will understand why this has happened, I usually use edubirdie.com/top-writers because there are top writers and this really helps me a lot to have access to college. Additionally, risk and reward are important elements to consider when designing a course. Providing players with opportunities to go for a high-risk shot that could result in a significant reward can make the game more exciting and engaging. However, it's essential to ensure that these shots are fair and not too difficult for most players. Ultimately, the goal of designing a course is to create an enjoyable and memorable experience for players. By taking into account the players' needs and preferences, and carefully crafting each hole, designers can create courses that are both challenging and visually stunning.
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Post by b101 on Feb 24, 2023 1:41:14 GMT -5
The Canyon Club - not approved
A lot of time clearly went into the course, but there's a lot of major issues with sculpting, surfacing and mostly playability. Please watch video in post one - there's lots of that in there.
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Post by fjf299 on Mar 28, 2023 21:47:05 GMT -5
Hello, my course was not accepted. Ocean Rock Golf Resort. I would love some feedback. I am not seeing not having 4 pinsets is a rejection, so that didn’t help. I went off the website’s guidelines, but after reading the rejection email and watching a video I dug out on here, I see there are significantly more guidelines. I’d love some feedback on any and all issues outside of the pin sets too. Thanks! Just wanna do it correctly-redo this-and for future designs. Thanks! Hey bud, I'm not a reviewer or anything, but here's a quick playthough with some looks at why your course wasn't approved (aside from the pinset issue). Hey guys, to follow up, I started a new course and have a bunch more work to do, but published a beta for you all to check out, if you have a minute, and wouldn’t mind giving some feedback on the direction. I did a deep dive into videos and templates. Still need planting, greens to do, tee boxes, etc. however let me know what you think of progress so far before I get even farther into it. Been working a few months on it on and off. Thanks! frankfbeta1 is the course name. Play 1st pin set (the others aren’t full set up yet, and play blue tees, same others not all set yet)
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Post by sandgroper on Mar 28, 2023 22:15:54 GMT -5
Hey fjf299, best place to ask for feedback on betas is to create a thread over here tgctours.proboards.com/board/10/constructionThat's where people go to check out what's being built but not a finished product. Nobody looks in here for betas, it's only where bad courses go to die. (but in a nice way).
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Post by fjf299 on Mar 28, 2023 22:21:12 GMT -5
Hey fjf299, best place to ask for feedback on betas is to create a thread over here tgctours.proboards.com/board/10/constructionThat's where people go to check out what's being built but not a finished product. Nobody looks in here for betas, it's only where bad courses go to die. (but in a nice way). Haha i posted it in there also. I just followed up on this thread because this is where my first attempt when getting the game went to die and I am hoping the nice gentleman who did that video picking my course apart would be interested in doing it again. It was super helpful and would love specific feedback from him and the reviewer. Just wanted to tag the original post as well. Appreciate you though
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Post by mattf27 on Apr 19, 2023 9:28:00 GMT -5
Blu-Mar Lagoon - not approved There's obviously some effort put into this one, and it's not far off from an approve. However, the weird awkward hole designs, every sightline seemingly being blocked by flowers or a big bush, and half the pins being on yellow slopes just add up over a round.
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Post by nelson on Apr 20, 2023 14:58:33 GMT -5
Blu-Mar Lagoon - not approved There's obviously some effort put into this one, and it's not far off from an approve. However, the weird awkward hole designs, every sightline seemingly being blocked by flowers or a big bush, and half the pins being on yellow slopes just add up over a round. Hey there! This is my course; If I make some fixes, can I resubmit it? Or is it at one abs done deal??
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BrendanOR123
Amateur Golfer
Y'all are old compared to me!
Posts: 232
TGCT Name: Brendan O'Reilly
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Post by BrendanOR123 on Apr 20, 2023 15:53:36 GMT -5
Blu-Mar Lagoon - not approved There's obviously some effort put into this one, and it's not far off from an approve. However, the weird awkward hole designs, every sightline seemingly being blocked by flowers or a big bush, and half the pins being on yellow slopes just add up over a round. Hey there! This is my course; If I make some fixes, can I resubmit it? Or is it at one abs done deal?? Hey there, Not a reviewer but know the answer. No, they don’t accept re-reviews with the quantity of courses they have to review. Unless you tear up the majority of the holes and completely re-do them, they won’t accept it. Best just take the feedback and move on to a new project.
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Post by mattf27 on Apr 20, 2023 16:21:26 GMT -5
Blu-Mar Lagoon - not approved There's obviously some effort put into this one, and it's not far off from an approve. However, the weird awkward hole designs, every sightline seemingly being blocked by flowers or a big bush, and half the pins being on yellow slopes just add up over a round. Hey there! This is my course; If I make some fixes, can I resubmit it? Or is it at one abs done deal?? Sorry, but we don't do resubmissions for the sake of reviewer workload. Having played the course, a lot of the issues with it are fundamental to the course itself, and aren't as simple as a little extra polish. Generally it's the case that starting over is less work and yields better results than trying to edit a course, and I think this one would be in that camp regardless. I'd definitely recommend some of B101s videos on strategy and design if you were unfamiliar with those.
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Post by catcherman22 on Apr 24, 2023 17:37:48 GMT -5
Maerdy Cottages Golf Club -
Doesn't exist in game... feel free to let us know when present and we will reconsider
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