Interlaken Forest

[cer1949]

Interlaken Forest is a fictional course set in the Swiss Alps. 18 holes proceed counter-clockwise around a large mountain lake, so it is quite scenic. It is also quite long measuring over 7,600 yards from the back tees. It is a forest course set in thick woods with tree-lined fairways and, because the course is always turning left as it circumnavigates the lake, there are a number of dogleg left holes. Here are the scorecard distances.



The course favors good ball strikers over good putters. The greens are constructed in sections or levels and there are often significant elevation differences between the sections, leading to a difficult putt if you hit your approach shot on to the wrong section or level. If, however, you manage to put your ball on to the correct section or level, the putts are flatter and relatively easy. This will often reward the better ball striker with an easy putt for birdie or better and, for the errant ball striker, keep par in play if they are a good enough putter to roll their first putt to within a reasonable vicinity of the hole on the correct section or level.

If you care to see a playthrough, I included video links to the a playthrough for the Beta version of this course. The final course has not changed in any significant way from the Beta version. That thread can be found here - 18 Hole Playthrough Videos

I should add that the playthrough video is from TGC 2019. I designed this course in TGC 2019, then imported it into PGA 2K21. It is available in PGA 2K21 in both the Beta version and this final version.

[variable]

Hi, I just finished a round at a moderate wind setting. It has a nice look, especially the waterfront holes, with my favorite hole being the island/peninsula par 3.

The one thing I would suggest re evaluating is tightness of fairways. They seemed very narrow, which may have been the intent, but with the cross winds combined with tall trees being very close make some fairways almost impossible to hit. I believe the guideline is 25 yards minimum with 30-40 yards being a moderate range? Also it seemed like many holes were set up with forced draw/fade off the tee. I’d think that softening the dogleg angles and widening the fairways, clearing/ shortening trees would engage players into thinking about various way to tackle their tee shots. Risk/reward choices are more interesting when they are shades of gray decisions instead of an either/or.

Hope that was helpful!

[cer1949]

Apr 18, 2022 20:41:35 GMT -5 variable said:

Hi, I just finished a round at a moderate wind setting. It has a nice look, especially the waterfront holes, with my favorite hole being the island/peninsula par 3.

The one thing I would suggest re evaluating is tightness of fairways. They seemed very narrow, which may have been the intent, but with the cross winds combined with tall trees being very close make some fairways almost impossible to hit. I believe the guideline is 25 yards minimum with 30-40 yards being a moderate range? Also it seemed like many holes were set up with forced draw/fade off the tee. I’d think that softening the dogleg angles and widening the fairways, clearing/ shortening trees would engage players into thinking about various way to tackle their tee shots. Risk/reward choices are more interesting when they are shades of gray decisions instead of an either/or.

Hope that was helpful!

Thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to play and offer some comments. The par 3 you described is #12. Glad you enjoyed it. Your comments are helpful, and I will consider them.

[sandgroper]

Good looking plot i.imgur.com/DgCJLlr.jpg deep in the alps with a nice lake.
Nice clubhouse i.imgur.com/MFVlQCv.jpg and putting green but I think a little more garden and paths are required.
Nice little village i.imgur.com/K17twhg.jpg

Good transition off the first tee i.imgur.com/TEHzcb2.jpg
Off the first it would be good to drop down the forward tee boxes i.imgur.com/MdYyMwV.jpg they are creating some blindness and take my eye off where I should be aiming.
I hit through the dogleg on 1 into the bunker that requires additional smoothing, it has some houndtoothing.
The green is quite small considering the length of hole.
The 4th green is also quite small for the length of par 3. I'm assuming there is a pin up on that crown that would be very difficult to get to.
You are also in heavy rough if you miss the green, or roll through, may be a little more fairway surrounding.
On the 6th the pin is in the middle of the only ridge on the green.
I missed the fairway on the 8th and didn't have enough club to get over the water.
On 14 I think I missed the pin by about 6 feet and got punted off the green. I think the pin should be more than 5 feet from the red slope.
The 18th is a tiny green and has some magic sand in the bunker surrounding it.

So good bones, but the doglegs may be a little severe, especially when you miss them. Smaller trees closer to the fairway edges.
The bunkers need a little more smoothing.
Consider the green sizes for length of hole.
The slopes on the greens need to be orange at 144 green speeds because if any one speeds them up to 187 god help them.

[cer1949]

I want to thank Variable, Sandgroper and others for playing Interlaken Forest and offering some comments based on their round. Sandgroper has been so kind as to play and video all 3 of the courses I have imported into PGA 2K21 from TGC 2019, so you designers should all express your appreciation to him if he has played and videoed yours. Because I have received a few comments about the severity of the doglegs, the size of the greens and the width of fairways, I thought I would respond. I don't want anyone to shy away from playing a round here if they are so inclined, or to think this course is unfair.

Severity of doglegs. If you try to cut the corner on any dogleg, you must hit a very good drive or you will probably pay a price. Nine of the doglegs turn left (because the course meanders counterclockwise around a large lake, and the holes are constantly turning left). If you miss left on one of these doglegs, you will find yourself in thick trees and heavy rough on a severe slope with no real possibility of hitting the green on your next shot. However, there is no need to cut the corner on any dogleg. And you don't have to hit driver on every dogleg. I designed most of them so that you can hit a fairway wood and still have a reasonable second shot. The landing area at the corner of almost every dogleg is receptive to a tee shot in the 260 to 295 range.  So a word of advice - play your tee shot away from the inside corner of the dogleg and toward the middle or outside portion of the fairway which will leave you in good position for your second shot. And, if you want to avoid the bunker on the outside corner of Hole 1, don't hit a driver. Hit your longest fairway wood and play it to the right side of the fairway.

Size of greens. I designed the greens to be receptive to the approach shot that you will face if you hit the preceding shots correctly. Take hole number 1, for example, which has been criticized as too small. It is not small because it is deep, but it is somewhat narrow. If you hit a tee shot in the fairway in the correct landing area, which is ample, you will be left with a short to medium iron shot. IMO, the green is large enough to receive that shot without any difficulties. I have never missed this green left, right or long in all my TGC 2019 playtesting when I have hit the fairway. I have missed it short from the fairway bunkers and from heavy rough, but was always able to get up and down. The green on hole 18 is small, but that is a straight hole where you can hit all of your driver, leaving you with a short approach shot. So the green is designed to fit the expected approach shot. The green on hole 4 may be a bit small, but it will hold a fairway wood that is well struck if you select the correct club. So all the greens have been designed to accept the shot that is intended.  

Width of fairways. I designed the fairways to be in the 30-35 yard range in landing areas, and a bit wider in the landing areas of some of the doglegs.  I could of course have made them 40 or 50 yards wide, but this is a course set in a forest not on a meadow. The fairways are lined with trees and the course places a premium on reasonably accurate shots. US Open courses are set up with fairways in the 20-25 yard range, so you have 50% wider fairways than you would on a US Open course. All the fairways have been designed to accept the shot that is intended.

Green elevations. As I have mentioned in earlier writeups about this course, the greens are designed to reward accurate ball-striking. If you hit the ball in the correct part of the green, you will be rewarded with a makeable putt because the putting areas around the pin placements are relatively flat. However, there are significant elevation differences between the various sections of the green. If you miss the correct part of the green with your approach shot, you will be left with a difficult putt with a significant elevation difference.

The course is difficult but it is fair. If you are not accurate, you will struggle. I did not build safe areas for shots that miss fairways or greens. You will find yourself scrambling from heavy rough. The course also requires that you play it a few times to learn where not to miss. You can't just reach for your driver on the tee of every par 4 and 5. You can't just shoot at the pin on every green. And sometimes, when you hit a bad shot, your best option is to pitch back to the fairway. Not everyone likes to play this kind of course because they prefer a course where par is a given and birdies are expected. I don't design that way. And I have had some good conversations about most of these topics with the folks, like Sandgroper, who have been so generous with their time to play my courses and provide feedback.

A concern was also expressed about whether the greens are playable in 187 conditions. So I played a round last night, only my second round on this course in PGA 2K21 after converting it from TGC 2019 to PGA 2K21. I set it up with 187 conditions from the back tees and shot -3, with two double-bogies. And the double bogies were not earned on the greens. If I can shoot this score, you should do even better because I don't play or design in PGA 2K21. I am still playing and designing in TGC 2019 in one of the few remaining TGC 2019 Societies.

But you don't have to take my word for any of this. You can play a round against my Ghost from the round I played last night. It is dated May 6, the name is CER1949 and the score is 69. You can see the holes where I hit a fairway wood from the tee instead of a driver, you can see where I placed my shots, and you can even see where I did not follow my own advice on Hole 4 where, instead of pitching back to the fairway, I hit my tee shot into the left rough and attempted to fly a long recovery shot out of heavy rough over water to the green and found water.

Golf on this course is not all birdies. But it is fair. Bad shots are punished; good shots are rewarded. And, if you will play it a couple of times, you will learn how to manage the course to reduce your bad shots.

Thanks again to Sandgroper and Variable for their comments.