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Post by raven on Nov 8, 2021 5:19:35 GMT -5
My last 6 courses have been TGC approved. So I know I'm designing well. But what am I missing to get a tour worthy course. Panther Trail Dry County GC Highland Sea View Lily Pond G.C. The Rapids GC Rock Run G.C. If someone has the time to look much appreciated
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Post by photokevie on Nov 8, 2021 22:04:08 GMT -5
I just played Panther Trail, Dry County GC, Highland Sea View and The Rapids GC. I'm probably going to say something you don't like, so just know I am not one of the people that reps TGC and I don't approve courses or anything like that. I'm a fellow course designer like yourself. These opinions are just my preferences of how I see golf in real life and how I see the blending of the the real life golf thinking/mentality/strategy and video game golf. Overview of these courses I would give an average rating of 80% Overall your design style is strong, and what I mean specifically is you have a theme and stick well to the "design style" for a particular course. I would say the style is more on the bold side of things. Colors, fairway textures, and plant type usage, it's cohesive and consistent. One thing I would focus on for a few of the courses is the lighting, and how the shadows paint your course's texture and movement. I felt like the Panther Trail had a couple of cool lighting on a few holes but as a result a large portion of the holes were in shadow and it was difficult to know if the spot I wanted to hit to in the fairway was going to be a bounce to the left or the right. Course layouts/routings are decent I would say there were a few tees on The Rapids GC that forced a very specific shot and this is more of my preference I would rather have a risk/reward versus a "no go" type tee shot. This just might be because I'm not the best at this game, but the courses felt like if you didn't hit a perfect shot, the average shot was punished. I think giving a little more space on the edges of your fairways (pull the trees back away from the fairways) won't punish the average shots as much. Green sizes felt extra large and I could be wrong on this but as far as I felt there was some red breaks on all of your greens. and most greens had tiers to them. I would explore some more into green complexes and maybe make a course where the greens are smaller and have minimal breaks in them. So here are some closing thoughts and how I have been trying to evolve as a designer. I used to try and make the hardest courses I could, almost to where if felt unfair, I wanted people to play my course and shoot -1 or maybe +5. I have switched to making courses that are playable and okay shots aren't super punishing. I try to visually scare the golfer to slow them down and make them think a little extra, but still no real dangers are lurking on the green or hidden somewhere. I've noticed watching some streamers on Tour that it's not necessarily about the course's difficulty that make the tours what they are, it's the people competing in them that make the tournaments hard. Congrats on the TGC approved courses, I have 2 that I have submitted and have been approved, still a long way to go for a Tour one though.
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Need help
Nov 9, 2021 7:55:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by raven on Nov 9, 2021 7:55:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the honest review. Gives me plenty of ideas
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Post by sroel908 on Nov 9, 2021 11:17:47 GMT -5
My last 6 courses have been TGC approved. So I know I'm designing well. But what am I missing to get a tour worthy course. Panther Trail Dry County GC Highland Sea View Lily Pond G.C. The Rapids GC Rock Run G.C. If someone has the time to look much appreciated I have not taken a look at any of these courses, so I cannot comment on the actual designs. Also, please don't take this post as a negative or as discouraging at all. I am trying to offer some tips that I have had to learn as a designer, too, helping me get more enjoyment out of designing and also helping me to get better and get some Tour Worthy courses in the game. I will say, just from reading your post, is that the focus on your designing career should not be set strictly on getting TW courses. While it's great to get a course with TW status, designing specifically for that goal will, more often than not, end in disappointment. I think the better way to look at it is to concentrate on simply getting better by spending more time in the designer, watching tutorials, experimenting, and playing other courses to pick up on things other designers are doing, etc. The more you work on courses and the more you focus on getting better, it will be natural that TW courses will come. Above all, just remember that you're doing this for fun. Build a course you want to play, one that you're proud of, and whatever status TGCT gives it will become secondary. Trying to pigeon-hole a design into the solitary goal of getting TW status will make the whole process less fun and add unnecessary pressure to your work. And, to be blunt and honest, TGCT approval is not necessarily an indication of designing well. Again, I have not looked at any of your courses so this isn't a knock on your designs or specifically speaking about you. But it's just another focus shift to consider. The way "TGCT Approved" is done now, it simply means your course is playable and free of major issues. A course can be "Approved" and not be anywhere near TW status. Just something to keep in mind. I can take a look at your courses and can provide a bit more feedback that's specific to your designs. But right up front, I think a slight change in focus will go a long way in helping you find your way to the next level! PS - I will also tag WhatAboutAmeobi in this post, as he plays courses on his Twitch channel and gives honest critiques and detailed feedback about how courses play. Perhaps he'd be able to take a look at one or two of your tracks and give you some solid tips to consider!
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Post by sroel908 on Nov 9, 2021 12:15:29 GMT -5
Ok, so I jumped into playing your Lily Pond G.C. to give some specific feedback. Here are some things: - Your green speeds here are set to 187 on default. This limits flexibility of the course schedulers, as they can only slow down your greens if they'd use them in an event. Also, on 187s, the greens are really quite tame. Hole 1's green had hardly any slopes on it. I'd say it was 85-90% green-colored slopes. This means if the greens were turned down, they'd be even more flat. This continued throughout the course...here's Hole 2: However, some greens later had almost too much break and undulation. See Hole 5: So a bit more consistency might help. - Sculpting and planting was OK, but could use a little more detail and attention. Some movement in the fairways felt unnatural and the sloping seemed like it could use some smoothing out. The tall grasses were really close to the playing surface on many holes. - Bunkers cut across multiple surfaces - heavy rough, light rough, and into the fairway on some holes. - Unintentional blindness...for example, Holes 4 and 6 have large fairway bunkers that are not visible off the tee. - The course is set in the mountains, yet is really flat. Seems a bit out of place. I stopped after 7 holes, as I had to get back to work, but these are some specific things I noticed.
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Post by raven on Nov 9, 2021 12:36:48 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to have a look. Points taken on board for my next course
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Post by WhatAboutAmeobi on Nov 9, 2021 19:02:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I could give Rock Run a rip on stream. Might have room for it tomorrow - not sure yet.
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Need help
Nov 10, 2021 4:46:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by raven on Nov 10, 2021 4:46:38 GMT -5
There's a lot I'd change in Rock Run now knowing what I've learnt but still a good course.
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Post by WhatAboutAmeobi on Nov 10, 2021 10:03:53 GMT -5
OK, I'm going to play in on stream today. Starting at 1:00pm EST.
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Post by raven on Nov 11, 2021 2:46:48 GMT -5
Thanks for reviewing it. totally agree with the review learned a lot since I designed that. And still learning. Got some help off a couple of good designers picked up lots of hints. Thanks again
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