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Post by MachOne117 on Sept 12, 2021 14:57:20 GMT -5
Hello fellow TST'ers,
As many of you know, I've been maintaining the TST World Golf Rankings (TSTWGR) since mid/late-June. You may have also realized that I enjoy doing nerdy data "stuff" with some of the other posts I've made about participation, difficulty, and the weekly tournament summaries (top 3, lowest rounds, most consistent, weekend mover).
With that intro, I'd like to have a discussion here about TST rankings and what the community believes will provide the best experience. There is currently not an option to have the TSTWGR calculated or displayed on TGCTours.com and it's not likely that will happen in the foreseeable future (so we can skip that improvement idea, see Q7 below).
I realize I'm relatively new to TGCTours (Feb '21) so I certainly value the inputs of folks who have been around much longer than me. I'd like to start by getting your thoughts on a few questions. If possible, try to link your thoughts with the specific question (copy/paste question into your reply and respond in-line).
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR?
Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR?
Q3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason?
Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated?
Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained?
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST?
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8?
Regards,
Allan
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Post by pat2020 on Sept 13, 2021 23:41:01 GMT -5
No response just yet, huh?
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR?
A: Yes. I do follow it every week.
Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR?
A: Mostly to see if I am improved or compare myself with members of the community I follow.
Q3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason?
A: I do keep up with it.
Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated?
A: Probably around the same calculation than the real life WGR and the one we use on TGC Tours but I don't remember how it is done.
Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained?
A: No.
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST?
A: Yes. Although Money List can also work for the full season.
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8?
A: Nah. Don't really need to change anything.
Thanks for the great work!
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Post by xvshitanvx on Sept 14, 2021 0:35:07 GMT -5
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR? Yes
Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated? Same as the real WGR I believe
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST? Yes
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8? A power ranking system to highlight the “hot” players over a rolling period (say last 5-10 weeks). I think this would be nice for players making the climb up the rankings to be noticed.
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Post by up mup kupen nup on Sept 14, 2021 3:20:39 GMT -5
Hey Allan, thanks for doing this! Having seen the spreadsheet, the time you spend for keeping it updated alone has to be appreciated! Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR? From time to time. Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR? To a certain extent, I'm a stat nerd myself. Though I would value the TSTWGR even more if I would be ahead of fransslabakQ3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason? I overlook and forget about the thread. Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated? Yes Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained? Yes Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST? Yes Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8? Using only natural numbers (like Elo in chess) would perhaps make it easier for people to associate a skill level to the players. Cheers, Kevin |
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Post by dansamp on Sept 14, 2021 7:03:42 GMT -5
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR? Yes
Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR? Finding my spot in the rankings, seeing where others rank.
Q3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason? N/A
Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated? Haven't a clue.
Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained? Haven't a clue.
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST? You would know better than me!
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8? Nope!
Probably not much help above, but here you are!
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Post by Art Vandelay on Sept 14, 2021 7:16:33 GMT -5
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR? Yes, not every week but my interest will probably increase now.
Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR? My progression/regression amongst the gawlf sadists.
Q3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason? Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated? Sorcery.
Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained? Voo doo.
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST? Along with a money list, sure. Ranking TST by good looks is not fair to everyone else 
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8? I know we are cross platform but would like to know where I stack up against others on PC alone. Who use a mouse. And are very handsome. Oh wait, I am on that list alone.
Onward! |
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Post by williamwes626 on Sept 14, 2021 8:23:01 GMT -5
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR? Totally - I think it should be mandatory - thanks for doing it!
Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR? Makes this tour feel more official and gives realism to the season overall.
Q3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason? Everyone should peek at their standing - why not?
Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated? Through a complicated math formula based on week-to-week performance.
Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained? Each tourney's leaderboard is incorporated into the overall points system.
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST? Seemed okay to me last season.
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8? Maybe color coding red hot players and blue cold players if they have a big jump up or down the rankings.
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Post by MachOne117 on Sept 14, 2021 20:24:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses so far! pat2020 Thanks for being the first. That's what leadership looks like! And then others followed. xvshitanvx I like the hot players idea. Very doable, I've just got to come up with some criteria and get it automated. This will give everybody (top to bottom of the rankings) a chance to get their name called out. Same reason I started including the "Most Consistent" and "Weekend Mover" in the tournament results. Some of us will never be top 3 or shoot the lowest score for a round.  One of my mottos... consistent bad performance is still consistent. up mup kupen nup You wanna be ahead of ol' fransslabak ya say? You've come to the right guy. A misplaced decimal and an accidental deletion or two and you'll be set. (I accept $10s and $20s) I also did look into other power ranking ideas and pretty quickly decided that's a no (for now). In the meantime, we'll just say you have an Elo of 2,883 and concede that you are the GOAT. That'll keep the math easier. dansamp You have assumed that I know what I'm doing. I've found the real key to keeping the TSTWGR is liberal usage of the Excel RAND function. Art Vandelay Sorcery, voodoo, AND good coffee! I will say that your good looks and up mup kupen nup 's power ranking would make for a diabolical match -up not seen since Alana McLaughlin submitted Celine Provost four days ago now. williamwes626 Whoa there now! I'm all for making things mandatory (like vaccines and subscriptions to Disney+), but forcing people who spend their time playing video game golf to be distracted with rankings in said video game golf is a bit much. |
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Post by Tombanator on Sept 15, 2021 8:29:38 GMT -5
Q1: Do I keep up with the WGR? When I was first starting out, apart from the quick look, no. Didn't think I'd have to if I don't make cuts and thus don't get points. Around the time when I started making my first cuts I decided to look into it more and now I follow it every week to see where in the sea of currently inactive players I'm at (right now at 176th, climbing up to more active ones to challenge soon?). Q2: What do I value about it? It's a nice way to be able to see where you're at. Being able to spot out who exactly I should be focused on targeting any given week as my "rival(s)". Fun to see if you're climbing up after playing well during the week, even if that's more of a thing to us lower down. And to be able to say "I'm ranked so and so in the world!" if you like that sort of thing, which with my position I currently do not. Check back when I'm number 1. that's never going to happen, just so you knowQ3: No answer here. Q4: Do I know how it's calculated? I only have a vague idea, I believe I saw something about that at some point last season (or season 7, this offseason area is a murky thing to classify, is it still the current season or the last one?). It's definitely a point system of some kind where there's tons of stuff involved, that much is for sure. It's probably too much math for me anyway, I only took the "short" math in school! I know that 1+1=3, just so you know. Q5: Or how it's maintained? If maintaining in this case means "how do you keep yourself within the rankings?", then that's points over a period of time, with a steady decay on increasingly older points and more focus on what you're currently scoring to give the idea who's doing well more recently rather than a year ago. Pretty much basic stuff, a lot of ranking systems are like that. Or through Excel or other data program I assume, if that's how this question was meant to be worded. Q6: Is it the best way to keep up? Absolutely yes, no doubt about it. Money list is fine too for a singular season but WGR to me is always the better option. Q7: Improvement or ideas? Umm... can I be number 1 for just a week? I promise I won't make a mess of the throne! I can't really offer much as leverage to make it happen as a lowly peasant of the TST world. Just do it.  For real, the previous (whatever you could make manageable) suggestions sound fine enough since I'm not an idea guy myself. To me, as long as I can find myself through intensive scrolling through the list, I'm good. I know, I'm boring like that. |
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Post by SkyBlueBen on Sept 15, 2021 9:08:04 GMT -5
MachOne117Having never made a TST cut I don't think I get on it. I shall make it my goal this season to make the list!! Then I'll be glued to it......
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Sept 17, 2021 12:41:31 GMT -5
Q1. Do you keep up with the TSTWGR? I do periodically - more so when I make a cut just to see if I've improved position.
Q2. If yes, what do you value about the TSTWGR? Where I rank generally with others playing
Q3. If you don't really keep up with TSTWGR, is there a specific reason?
Q4. Do you know how the TSTWGR is calculated? Loosly, but don't know specifics
Q5. Do you know how the TSTWGR is maintained? Someone does it manually (spreadsheet somewhere??)
Q6. Do you think the TSTWGR (as-is) is the best way to keep rankings for TST? Sure ?? I'm down with whatever..
Q7. Do you have any recommendations to either improve or change the TSTWGR as we move closer to S8? Perhaps only a single scrollable embedded spreadsheet of some sort to prevent having to scroll through the multiple thread pages on the first page ?? Not a big deal, other than that - I'm good with whatever..
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Post by greyosprey on Sept 17, 2021 16:33:01 GMT -5
I check it from time to time just to see if I'm still ranked, but have no idea how it's calculated or what rds count - ie...
any rds played regardless of making cut
only rds played if you make the cut
Only if you play all 4 rds regardless of making the cut
Only if you make the cut and play all 4 rds.
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Post by MachOne117 on Sept 25, 2021 21:09:19 GMT -5
Hey all, Thanks for the responses. Here's a few pieces of info FYI. How is the TSTWGR calculated? Pretty much exactly like the OWGR ( www.owgr.com) except we only use 65 weeks in TST instead of 104 weeks like the OWGR. There are significant changes coming to the OWGR in August 2022 as announed here, Announcement. And then here's a lot more details and some Q&As published by the OWGR: Details. That's not likely to be possible without a full-time staff including a statistician and one or two programmers.  How is the TSTWGR maintained?A spreadsheet does it! The tourney results are pulled from the website each week and points are allocated. The week's points are then pulled into the summation sheet where the correct decrements are applied to previous weeks and liberal use of COUNTA, IF, INDIRECT, and plenty of math operations keeps up with everybody's (currently 1259 players') total points, average points, and events played. Is the TSTWGR the best way to keep rankings for TST?It's certainly one way to do it and it'll keep going. I'm also going to start keeping up with FedExCup points. The main difference between the two is that WGR is a rolling ranking system that includes the last 65 weeks, carries from season to season, uses more complicated calculations, and puts emphasis on recent play (no decrements in the most recent 13 weeks). FedExCup is season specific (everybody will start tied at the beginning of each season at zero and race to the championship), sums points earned throughout the entire season equally, and puts emphasis on the bigger tournaments (more points available in those). Any questions just ask. |
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Post by Billy Hoyle on Sept 28, 2021 12:23:47 GMT -5
Are there any plans on using WGR rankings for certain Tourney entries this year? I believe last year all the invitationals were based on The Money list.. Just curious..........
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Post by fransslabak on Sept 30, 2021 3:14:21 GMT -5
Are there any plans on using WGR rankings for certain Tourney entries this year? I believe last year all the invitationals were based on The Money list.. Just curious.......... Hi Billy, we are going to use FedEX points for that. MachOne117 will start showing us the points we have scored as soon as he has done his spreadsheet wizardry...  |
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One of my mottos... consistent bad performance is still consistent. 
