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Post by LabyrinthOvlord on Jun 15, 2021 8:17:41 GMT -5
So I’m genuinely curious how many more perfects are you guys hitting on pro v master? I must have found the perfect calibration because I don’t struggle much with it. I for one believe in dialing in the calibration, but you have to do it several times in one sitting. I’m wondering if all you’ve done is make the miss box bigger and ignored the real problem. Hitting perfects on master is very doable. Just have to dial it in Ok here is some information for you. I played B.O.B. last night which is master settings Round 1 +8 26- perfect 7 Red Fast 9 Red Slow 37 Putts- Wow that's a lot I know. Unfortunately, when I did hit a perfect into the green I left myself on the wrong side of the hole or missed a 12 foot putt. As for the rest of the putts. They were a result of a RS or RF pitch, flop, splash that left me with 40 to 60 ft putt for par. On some of the greens as y'all will see it's really hard to lag it close. There putting is the issue but the part that made it not fun for me was I was playing well but the results of a broken splash, flop, pitch on master killed my round. Round 2 -3 28 Perfect 5 Red Fast 11 Red Slow 24 Putts- Much better right. I made some birdie putts from outside 10 ft, but also I didn't have any fast or slow on any splash, pitch, or flops. However, I did have to make a sacrifice to the RNG gods. LOL I will be playing my pro rounds probably tonight or tomorrow night I will report back with my results.
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Post by moneyman273 on Jun 15, 2021 8:24:11 GMT -5
For the record, I think EVERYONE should be open to playing the pro difficulty, for purposes of data collection. Give an honest effort. Two rounds per night. Start the first round on pro, start the second round on master, or vice versa. But, playing both rounds the same night may allow you to keep that same vibe going, rather than wait until the following day. I'm glad we got a round of each in last night, was very interesting to compare the scores and stats.
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Post by Giraffe72 on Jun 15, 2021 8:48:40 GMT -5
I would disagree completely that this is an 'easiest' course. I think it's a pretty difficult course with some tight landing spots and tough pins. Those ratings are always skewed by the players who play with the swing timing off and a swing line the width of our High Street. It is an absolutely fantastic piece of design though, stunning.
I played my first Pro round. I went the entire round without a single red swing until I got to the 18th tee. Just FYI, that is definitely NOT a good place to hit a red slow! Lol. Still made par from down in the valley. Obviously hit a fair few greys, but they don't kill you. It was the trickiness of the course which kept my score down, particularly the pins. Couldn't quite match Jason's -9 but only a couple back. I think I'll be delighted to break par in my BOB round when I get to it!
Overall impressions, it was good to have that close miss which we've all said is stupid that we don't have on Masters. It was a fun round on an amazing course. The course had enough about it to still make it a challenge. I still prefer the challenge of Masters, but that's me, I'd be happy enough playing these settings. Some will get zoned in and absolutely destroy it.
One question for you Jason, you've clearly completely given up on Masters. You have to ask yourself, why can you hit zero perfects when others can hit them? How do others on the same console manage to use the pitch shot? You need to change something, it clearly is possible. I'd be happy to play a round with you some time and talk you through my processes. I'm a long way from the best player here, in fact previously you've often got the better of me, so if I can cope what am I doing that's different? What's Craig and Dan doing? It's not unplayable.
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Post by OldManGaming606 on Jun 15, 2021 8:58:00 GMT -5
So, rhino4life and I played two rounds of BoB last night. First round on pro difficulty. Second round (but first round again with the same settings) on master difficulty. I gave an honest effort on both rounds. My pro score: -9. 8 birdies, 1 lucky eagle and 1 bogey. FIR and GIR at 80%. Ability to get perfect tempo was less than 50% (probably 35-40%) but certainly MORE than the 2-5% I get perfect on master difficulty. It did have it's difficult moments but the threat of blowing up in a set of three holes wasn't there. Mistakes and damage (per my normal strategy) were always minimized. It was a VERY enjoyable round. My master score: +1. 3 birdies, 4 bogies. FIR at 41% and GIR at 35%. Ability to get perfect tempo was 0%. Ability to get a GRAY SLOW was probably 20%. Rest were horrible red fasts and red slows (maybe 1 or 2 very fasts?). If I hadn't had the high of a -9 previous round, I'd have probably said a few things to Dave that I'd most likely regret lol. It's just not enjoyable with the tempo roulette. Good shot off the tee, followed by a chunk pitch or flop and it just kills you. Try for perfect off the tee, red fast. Try for perfect off the tee, red slow. Try for perfect of the tee, gray slow. So, looking at a 10 stroke swing here. Also, this is indicated as an "easiest" course on 2K21. I hope you all will make an honest effort on BOTH pro and master and compare your scores. It's actually quite interesting. I told Dave let's get a second round in and look at the results after we played well on pro difficulty. A few thoughts while in my head: If next season stays at master difficulty, I think that at many times, we should probably play off of the front tees, and no courses should be longer than 7000 yards (maybe with the exception of a major). If we were playing 6700 yard courses on master difficulty, I could see this as a nice compromise. This would eliminate those 500 yard par 4's and 600 yard par 5's but also allow for many of us who can't get perfect to get that "non perfect" 250 yard drive off the tee but still be in the fairway. Yes folks, I said NOT PLAYING FROM THE TIPS EVERY DAMN ROUND. There needs to be compromise somewhere for all to enjoy playing again. Pro difficulty was VERY enjoyable but after playing one round, there was minimal scrambling, minimal damage control needed, etc. Now, again, this was an EASY course. I said to Dave that I like the concept of pro difficulty but then ramping up distance (more play from the tips), winds (more high winds) and more either super fast greens (187) or slower (144) to increase the difficulty. Many times, this will keep scoring in check but still be enjoyable for play because you don't spend your entire round in complete frustration wondering why your tempo continues to be pure crap and you're fighting for pars and bogeys rather than pars, bogeys and birdies. Last night was the first night in nearly a month where I had the desire to play a round 2 on a given night. That was because of pro difficulty. That's a fair write up and the most positive post I've seen from you in a while. I'd offer a couple thoughts to it. From a mental aspect, I would suggest you play Master before Pro. Playing Pro, as expected is easier, and less focus is needed. For me it's harder to turn on the hyper focus than to relax it. It also makes Pro feel even easier after playing Master. However, word of caution. Because Pro is easier, I tend to not focus enough and the next thing you know I can't find any tempo whatsoever. I don't know what determines the difficulty rating of a course (Easiest, Easy, etc, but it's is not an accurate assessment of many courses. I have had courses rated as Hardest that were crazy easy and vice versa. I do like your idea about tee positions and those are great points. Trying to hit a second shot 260 yards to get on the green of a 510 yard par 4 is tough. Unless of course, like you mentioned, if it were a major, still tough, but expected tough because it's a major. Glad you enjoyed your rounds.
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Post by moneyman273 on Jun 15, 2021 9:13:18 GMT -5
I would disagree completely that this is an 'easiest' course. I think it's a pretty difficult course with some tight landing spots and tough pins. Those ratings are always skewed by the players who play with the swing timing off and a swing line the width of our High Street. It is an absolutely fantastic piece of design though, stunning. I played my first Pro round. I went the entire round without a single red swing until I got to the 18th tee. Just FYI, that is definitely NOT a good place to hit a red slow! Lol. Still made par from down in the valley. Obviously hit a fair few greys, but they don't kill you. It was the trickiness of the course which kept my score down, particularly the pins. Couldn't quite match Jason's -9 but only a couple back. I think I'll be delighted to break par in my BOB round when I get to it! Overall impressions, it was good to have that close miss which we've all said is stupid that we don't have on Masters. It was a fun round on an amazing course. The course had enough about it to still make it a challenge. I still prefer the challenge of Masters, but that's me, I'd be happy enough playing these settings. Some will get zoned in and absolutely destroy it. One question for you Jason, you've clearly completely given up on Masters. You have to ask yourself, why can you hit zero perfects when others can hit them? How do others on the same console manage to use the pitch shot? You need to change something, it clearly is possible. I'd be happy to play a round with you some time and talk you through my processes. I'm a long way from the best player here, in fact previously you've often got the better of me, so if I can cope what am I doing that's different? What's Craig and Dan doing? It's not unplayable. Yeah, I was just going on how it said "easiest", on the course description. Disagree all you want, that's what HB indicates the course as. That being said, HB has always done a poor job with determining that. I just indicated that also because I felt it was a pretty darn easy course, on pro difficulty. No doubt, a BEAUTIFUL COURSE! Here's where you go askew though sir. I have not "clearly completely given up on Masters". I offered a VERY FAIR post, which is a rarity nowadays for both players who support master difficulty as well as players who support pro difficulty. I indicated numerous compromises that would most likely generate a little more success for those who struggle on master difficulty (shorter courses, lighter winds, more favorable green speeds). Furthermore, I indicated numerous additional challenges that could be added to generate higher scores if played on pro difficulty) longer courses, higher winds, more variable and challenging greens and green speeds, say 144 and 187 more often). So, what gives man? I think I've been the only one to indicate compromise and ideas on BOTH difficulty levels, and that is going far from heard, apparently. Is it the console version? (Quite possibly). Is it the time of day? (Maybe). Is it the club selection? (Most forgiving clubs in my bag). I appreciate the help but there's no explanation for being now 10 months into a game and go from barely competent to completely clueless on one difficulty level. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but if we stay as a master difficulty society, my ideas for balancing fun and difficulty are pretty damn good if I do say so myself. Why do I get the feeling that it will never be enough though? Positive banter this morning Gents. Let's all try to stay together on this. Myself included.
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Post by Koop on Jun 15, 2021 9:50:13 GMT -5
One question for you Jason, you've clearly completely given up on Masters. You have to ask yourself, why can you hit zero perfects when others can hit them? How do others on the same console manage to use the pitch shot? You need to change something, it clearly is possible. I'd be happy to play a round with you some time and talk you through my processes. I'm a long way from the best player here, in fact previously you've often got the better of me, so if I can cope what am I doing that's different? What's Craig and Dan doing? It's not unplayable. I am going to put on my educator/teacher hat here and try to answer this without causing any hurt feelings.... In my 20+ years in teaching children (kindergarten thru 5th grade) I'll use math as an example..... there are students who can look at a set of number in an equation and see the answer and be done. These are the students I hear saying this is easy, it's not that hard, you just do it. Then there are those students, who look at the same equation but struggle with the concept and no matter how hard they work it doesn't come easy(frustration). Yes, they may, in time get the answer(perfect) but it was far from easy and certainly not as enjoyable as the first student who was done long before. I structure my classes and lesson so that each student in my class has the chance/opportunity to learn, enjoy and be successful! The concept of math (addition, subtraction, multiplication or division) is the same, but the equation maybe be leveled to meet that particular students ability. Let's face it, as much as we may all want things to be equal, they are not. What I am trying to say is that we can all swing (do the math) but some can do the math (swing) at higher levels than others. Just because it is easy for some doesn't mean it is easy for everyone. Hope I am making sense. Have a great day! :-)
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Post by bmells33 on Jun 15, 2021 10:08:01 GMT -5
So I’m genuinely curious how many more perfects are you guys hitting on pro v master? I must have found the perfect calibration because I don’t struggle much with it. I for one believe in dialing in the calibration, but you have to do it several times in one sitting. I’m wondering if all you’ve done is make the miss box bigger and ignored the real problem. Hitting perfects on master is very doable. Just have to dial it in Ok here is some information for you. I played B.O.B. last night which is master settings Round 1 +8 26- perfect 7 Red Fast 9 Red Slow 37 Putts- Wow that's a lot I know. Unfortunately, when I did hit a perfect into the green I left myself on the wrong side of the hole or missed a 12 foot putt. As for the rest of the putts. They were a result of a RS or RF pitch, flop, splash that left me with 40 to 60 ft putt for par. On some of the greens as y'all will see it's really hard to lag it close. There putting is the issue but the part that made it not fun for me was I was playing well but the results of a broken splash, flop, pitch on master killed my round. Round 2 -3 28 Perfect 5 Red Fast 11 Red Slow 24 Putts- Much better right. I made some birdie putts from outside 10 ft, but also I didn't have any fast or slow on any splash, pitch, or flops. However, I did have to make a sacrifice to the RNG gods. LOL I will be playing my pro rounds probably tonight or tomorrow night I will report back with my results. 28 perfects seems like a super high number to me. I typically hit zero. No exaggeration. Most rounds I have no perfect shots, and I've never hit a perfect drive since the update. Guessing I have no perfect polling point for my driver or I'd hit one by chance I'd assume. I just live in the grey areas and typically score around 5 under.
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Post by OldManGaming606 on Jun 15, 2021 10:10:01 GMT -5
One question for you Jason, you've clearly completely given up on Masters. You have to ask yourself, why can you hit zero perfects when others can hit them? How do others on the same console manage to use the pitch shot? You need to change something, it clearly is possible. I'd be happy to play a round with you some time and talk you through my processes. I'm a long way from the best player here, in fact previously you've often got the better of me, so if I can cope what am I doing that's different? What's Craig and Dan doing? It's not unplayable. I am going to put on my educator/teacher hat here and try to answer this without causing any hurt feelings.... In my 20+ years in teaching children (kindergarten thru 5th grade) I'll use math as an example..... there are students who can look at a set of number in an equation and see the answer and be done. These are the students I hear saying this is easy, it's not that hard, you just do it. Then there are those students, who look at the same equation but struggle with the concept and no matter how hard they work it doesn't come easy(frustration). Yes, they may, in time get the answer(perfect) but it was far from easy and certainly not as enjoyable as the first student who was done long before. I structure my classes and lesson so that each student in my class has the chance/opportunity to learn, enjoy and be successful! The concept of math (addition, subtraction, multiplication or division) is the same, but the equation maybe be leveled to meet that particular students ability. Let's face it, as much as we may all want things to be equal, they are not. What I am trying to say is that we can all swing (do the math) but some can do the math (swing) at higher levels than others. Just because it is easy for some doesn't mean it is easy for everyone. Hope I am making sense. Have a great day! :-) Ok. So, now let me give it to you from a baseball coach perspective. I've coached baseball from 6 year olds to college level, but most of my time was spent at the high school level. And you're right, not everyone has the same ability. However, that doesn't mean, those with less ability can't be taught or they can't improve. I've seen kids barely make the JV team as a sophomore, become the Captain and leading player as a senior. Teaching a kid to get his hands inside the ball instead of being a dead pull hitter will increase his batting average over 100 points, but it doesn't happen overnight. Hell, Michael Jordon was cut his sophomore year of high school. Now either his coach was an idiot or MJ didn't have the same ability as others at that time. But he figured it out, probably with a LOT of hard work. I'll give you an example about this game. Most of us have played console golf for years, 2K21 is the very first version where the swing is not as fast as you can swing it. When my tempo is off (regardless of difficulty), it's generally because I am taking the club back to fast, not finishing my backswing and starting my downswing too fast. When I focus and slow down, I get back in rhythm. And there is a mental approach as well as strategy. Understanding what someone successful is doing when they face adversity can only make you better when you are in the same situation. There are lots of ways to improve and generally it starts with a mindset that is positive.
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Post by sanchez on Jun 15, 2021 10:12:41 GMT -5
Right my rds..played back to back pro first. Pro..scored -7..8 birdies..1 bogey. No RF or RS. 77% FIR..78% GIR.
Master..scored +2..5 birdies..3 bogies..2 doubles. 2 rvf..18 rf..2rs. 69% FIR..55% GIR.
Pro is easy not to get reds but if you take away some of the aids like no wind speed or zoom to aim etc. Could be made challenging. Just my thoughts & only 1 rd played competitivley.
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Post by dansamp on Jun 15, 2021 10:25:06 GMT -5
Ok here is some information for you. I played B.O.B. last night which is master settings Round 1 +8 26- perfect 7 Red Fast 9 Red Slow 37 Putts- Wow that's a lot I know. Unfortunately, when I did hit a perfect into the green I left myself on the wrong side of the hole or missed a 12 foot putt. As for the rest of the putts. They were a result of a RS or RF pitch, flop, splash that left me with 40 to 60 ft putt for par. On some of the greens as y'all will see it's really hard to lag it close. There putting is the issue but the part that made it not fun for me was I was playing well but the results of a broken splash, flop, pitch on master killed my round. Round 2 -3 28 Perfect 5 Red Fast 11 Red Slow 24 Putts- Much better right. I made some birdie putts from outside 10 ft, but also I didn't have any fast or slow on any splash, pitch, or flops. However, I did have to make a sacrifice to the RNG gods. LOL I will be playing my pro rounds probably tonight or tomorrow night I will report back with my results. 28 perfects seems like a super high number to me. I typically hit zero. No exaggeration. Most rounds I have no perfect shots, and I've never hit a perfect drive since the update. Guessing I have no perfect polling point for my driver or I'd hit one by chance I'd assume. I just live in the grey areas and typically score around 5 under. Yep I've mentioned this to you before I think in another thread, or maybe here. Your calibration doesn't have a perfect point. However, you'd likely be a "Pro" difficulty God because I think both your grey fast + grey slow polling points would be in the perfect window for most clubs on pro, so you'd have two perfect points .
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Post by bmells33 on Jun 15, 2021 10:29:33 GMT -5
28 perfects seems like a super high number to me. I typically hit zero. No exaggeration. Most rounds I have no perfect shots, and I've never hit a perfect drive since the update. Guessing I have no perfect polling point for my driver or I'd hit one by chance I'd assume. I just live in the grey areas and typically score around 5 under. Yep I've mentioned this to you before I think in another thread, or maybe here. Your calibration doesn't have a perfect point. However, you'd likely be a "Pro" difficulty God because I think both your grey fast + grey slow polling points would be in the perfect window for most clubs on pro, so you'd have two perfect points . I played 9 holes a week ago on pro to check it out when the discussion started. I birdied 8 of 9 holes and hit like 90 percent perfects...so you're probably right about the 2 polling points. I still don't think it would help my 20 - 45 yard tempo problem I have though....im just all over the place with tempo around the greens and short bunker shots. That's where I'm losing most of my strokes.
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Post by Koop on Jun 15, 2021 10:30:26 GMT -5
I am going to put on my educator/teacher hat here and try to answer this without causing any hurt feelings.... In my 20+ years in teaching children (kindergarten thru 5th grade) I'll use math as an example..... there are students who can look at a set of number in an equation and see the answer and be done. These are the students I hear saying this is easy, it's not that hard, you just do it. Then there are those students, who look at the same equation but struggle with the concept and no matter how hard they work it doesn't come easy(frustration). Yes, they may, in time get the answer(perfect) but it was far from easy and certainly not as enjoyable as the first student who was done long before. I structure my classes and lesson so that each student in my class has the chance/opportunity to learn, enjoy and be successful! The concept of math (addition, subtraction, multiplication or division) is the same, but the equation maybe be leveled to meet that particular students ability. Let's face it, as much as we may all want things to be equal, they are not. What I am trying to say is that we can all swing (do the math) but some can do the math (swing) at higher levels than others. Just because it is easy for some doesn't mean it is easy for everyone. Hope I am making sense. Have a great day! :-) Ok. So, now let me give it to you from a baseball coach perspective. I've coached baseball from 6 year olds to college level, but most of my time was spent at the high school level. And you're right, not everyone has the same ability. However, that doesn't mean, those with less ability can't be taught or they can't improve. I've seen kids barely make the JV team as a sophomore, become the Captain and leading player as a senior. Teaching a kid to get his hands inside the ball instead of being a dead pull hitter will increase his batting average over 100 points, but it doesn't happen overnight. Hell, Michael Jordon was cut his sophomore year of high school. Now either his coach was an idiot or MJ didn't have the same ability as others at that time. But he figured it out, probably with a LOT of hard work. I'll give you an example about this game. Most of us have played console golf for years, 2K21 is the very first version where the swing is not as fast as you can swing it. When my tempo is off (regardless of difficulty), it's generally because I am taking the club back to fast, not finishing my backswing and starting my downswing too fast. When I focus and slow down, I get back in rhythm. And there is a mental approach as well as strategy. Understanding what someone successful is doing when they face adversity can only make you better when you are in the same situation. There are lots of ways to improve and generally it starts with a mindset that is positive. I can say the same thing, been a soccer coach for little tikes through college, Played through college and in all those season and all those teams I have played on or coached there are the haves and have nots. There are exception always... i.e. your Michael Jordan example. I was not saying people can't learn or improve, but people should play at a level that is enjoyable to them. That is why you have AYOS soccer league, adult rec leagues and the EPL. Thank you
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Post by dansamp on Jun 15, 2021 10:36:22 GMT -5
Yep I've mentioned this to you before I think in another thread, or maybe here. Your calibration doesn't have a perfect point. However, you'd likely be a "Pro" difficulty God because I think both your grey fast + grey slow polling points would be in the perfect window for most clubs on pro, so you'd have two perfect points . I played 9 holes a week ago on pro to check it out when the discussion started. I birdied 8 of 9 holes and hit like 90 percent perfects...so you're probably right about the 2 polling points. I still don't think it would help my 20 - 45 yard tempo problem I have though....im just all over the place with tempo around the greens and short bunker shots. That's where I'm losing most of my strokes. My advice on those areas: Bunker shots using splash - use max distance intent on the club (or very close to max distance, I pull back 1 yard) and use full loft (or less than full given how short of a shot you're talking about here) and backspin. If you pull back the intent you're going to hit red fast pretty much no matter what as reducing intent shifts polling points left (and the more you go, the more left, so that's why when you try a splash for 11 yards you're never going to hit anything but red fast pretty much). Longer bunker shots, use the pitch. 20-45 yard pitches - practice, practice, practice. The lower the distance (if you're moving your intent) the slower you need to swing. Distance control and forgiveness are helpful attributes on your LW for pitches.
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Post by Demonondalinks on Jun 15, 2021 10:46:37 GMT -5
I played a leisurely rd last night at Pinewood Lidar and struggled somewhat with tempo finished -4 because of short game saving me. Mediocre splashes from bunkers and making several nice ten foot putts. What a great course that is. Played another round this morning and shot a -5 on a course where it is hard to reach FW with a RF or SF and two monster par 3's. Very satisfied with those scores. I won't start my BoB rds till Thursday and will play 1st rd only in CUCC. Just don't have an extra 2 hours to play with this week. I will report my Pro rd here.
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Post by owenayy on Jun 15, 2021 10:49:30 GMT -5
BOB MASTERS 76 and 66 +5 and -5 FIR 73.08% GREENS 75% ------ PRO 65 and 68 -6 and -3 FIR 69.23% GREENS 77.78%
To each his own but I had more fun at the masters level. Shooting that 66 in the 2nd round gave me a better feeling than shooting a -14 using pro which I've done in the Senior society. I'll play whatever is decided but Masters is more satisfying for me.
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