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Post by virtualgolfer65 on Mar 23, 2021 13:21:30 GMT -5
Thread idea started during a discussion on WhatAboutAmeobi Twitch stream today of some Design League 2 playthroughs. In essence, there were some green colors that didn't fit with the desert theme. It got me to thinking that a guide for picking appropriate colors for different themes. When I started designing here it was "see what looks good", but not everyone has the artistic eye. What are your thoughts on colors that work well for different themes? Again, people can choose to go outside of this guide, but it will clear up some confusion for new designers and not have solid courses with outrageous colors that hinder the play or perspective of people playing it. I'm thinking a guide that has something like (note that I randomly chose numbers below and they don't actually fit with what should be): Steppe - choose a green color from 2, 4, 6-8, 15, 19, 22-24 and 30. Fairways choose from 2-5, 8, 12, 15-18, 19, 25-28 and bunkers choose from ______ Highlands choose a green color from 6-7, 18, 19, 28-30. Fairways choose from 1, 6, 13, 19-22, or 27 and bunkers choose from ______ and so on. So, what say you? If this gets enough feedback then I can put together a post that perhaps could be pinned.
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Post by lessangster on Mar 23, 2021 13:49:17 GMT -5
Thread idea started during a discussion on WhatAboutAmeobi Twitch stream today of some Design League 2 playthroughs. In essence, there were some green colors that didn't fit with the desert theme. It got me to thinking that a guide for picking appropriate colors for different themes. When I started designing here it was "see what looks good", but not everyone has the artistic eye. What are your thoughts on colors that work well for different themes? Again, people can choose to go outside of this guide, but it will clear up some confusion for new designers and not have solid courses with outrageous colors that hinder the play or perspective of people playing it. I'm thinking a guide that has something like (note that I randomly chose numbers below and they don't actually fit with what should be): Steppe - choose a green color from 2, 4, 6-8, 15, 19, 22-24 and 30. Fairways choose from 2-5, 8, 12, 15-18, 19, 25-28 and bunkers choose from ______ Highlands choose a green color from 6-7, 18, 19, 28-30. Fairways choose from 1, 6, 13, 19-22, or 27 and bunkers choose from ______ and so on. So, what say you? If this gets enough feedback then I can put together a post that perhaps could be pinned. If I use 12 for a green I tend to pick 12 for rough and 12 for heavy rough I don’t know if that’s the right think to do. Sometimes I will make the rough more yellow
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Post by shotstone on Mar 23, 2021 15:27:24 GMT -5
I don't remember what color I chose off-hand, and I'll look it up later when I'm at my pc, but living in Phoenix, AZ and playing A TON of desert courses, I felt this color palette was pretty close to what I see on a fairly regular basis. Edit: Palette - Greens - 1 Fairways - 2 Rough - 12 Heavy Rough - 12 Bunkers - 2 A photo of Dinosaur Mountain Golf Club for reference:
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Post by virtualgolfer65 on Mar 23, 2021 17:34:52 GMT -5
I don't remember what color I chose off-hand, and I'll look it up later when I'm at my pc, but living in Phoenix, AZ and playing A TON of desert courses, I felt this color palette was pretty close to what I see on a fairly regular basis. A photo of Dinosaur Mountain Golf Club for reference: Update your post with your numbers when you get them.
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Post by shotstone on Mar 23, 2021 17:48:35 GMT -5
I don't remember what color I chose off-hand, and I'll look it up later when I'm at my pc, but living in Phoenix, AZ and playing A TON of desert courses, I felt this color palette was pretty close to what I see on a fairly regular basis. A photo of Dinosaur Mountain Golf Club for reference: Update your post with your numbers when you get them. Added above, and here too: Palette - Greens - 1 Fairways - 2 Rough - 12 Heavy Rough - 12 Bunkers - 2 Bunker of 2 is the one I probably could go other directions on, just wanted something lighter without going beach white.
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theboldb
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
Tour: Beer League/TST
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Post by theboldb on Mar 23, 2021 17:53:13 GMT -5
I thought during the stream that this would be a very useful thread.
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Post by WhatAboutAmeobi on Mar 23, 2021 19:10:55 GMT -5
I thought during the stream that this would be a very useful thread. I did, too. Glad virtualgolfer65 created this thread!
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Post by Oscar C on Mar 23, 2021 19:17:12 GMT -5
Thread idea started during a discussion on WhatAboutAmeobi Twitch stream today of some Design League 2 playthroughs. In essence, there were some green colors that didn't fit with the desert theme. It got me to thinking that a guide for picking appropriate colors for different themes. When I started designing here it was "see what looks good", but not everyone has the artistic eye. What are your thoughts on colors that work well for different themes? Again, people can choose to go outside of this guide, but it will clear up some confusion for new designers and not have solid courses with outrageous colors that hinder the play or perspective of people playing it. I'm thinking a guide that has something like (note that I randomly chose numbers below and they don't actually fit with what should be): Steppe - choose a green color from 2, 4, 6-8, 15, 19, 22-24 and 30. Fairways choose from 2-5, 8, 12, 15-18, 19, 25-28 and bunkers choose from ______ Highlands choose a green color from 6-7, 18, 19, 28-30. Fairways choose from 1, 6, 13, 19-22, or 27 and bunkers choose from ______ and so on. So, what say you? If this gets enough feedback then I can put together a post that perhaps could be pinned. If I use 12 for a green I tend to pick 12 for rough and 12 for heavy rough I don’t know if that’s the right think to do. Sometimes I will make the rough more yellow This. I don’t know why but it’s obvious the tones are generally meant to be similar.
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Mar 24, 2021 2:27:54 GMT -5
This is a rather subjective question in my opinion. Different stuff is going to look good to different people. My own leanings are towards textures that “match” but some people like more contrast. Personally, I try to find 3-4 textures that look like they could be the same variety of grass and work from lightest (green) to darkest (heavy rough) but it’s not necessarily a rule. I’ve seen some nice tracks using more lush shades for fairways and greens and brownish yellow heavy rough to simulate dormant grass. My only gripe there is the lines between lush green and dark brown have little to no blending aspect and can look harsh at times. The only concrete advice I could offer would be to avoid the super neon textures!
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Mar 24, 2021 11:49:50 GMT -5
Alright, so just as a way to help get this started I went and took a bunch of screenshots. Now, I'm not going to go all out in trying every combination because there are 1,081,344 different combinations you could go with but I wanted to at least test a few of the textures using all the same number texture on each of the Fairways, Greens, Rough, and Heavy Rough. I also chose a bunker color I thought looked nice (since I don't think these numbers necessarily align with the rest as far as matching goes) and I took a screenshot in 3 different types of lighting. 60 degree inclination, 119 degree orientation, 0700, 1200, and 1600 all under clear weather conditions. The biggest thing you will notice is that lighting is the key to getting a good texture look. There are some textures that work better in morning or afternoon lighting. There are some that actually don't look half bad under noon lighting conditions, and then some that should be avoided under certain lighting conditions. 1st set: Top Row: All grass texture 1, sand texture 1 Middle Row: All grass texture 2, sand texture 2 Bottom Row: All grass texture 5, sand texture 8 2nd set: Top Row: All grass texture 10, sand texture 3 Middle Row: All grass texture 17, sand texture 12 Bottom Row: All grass texture 20, sand texture 14 3rd Set Top Row: All grass texture 24 (day-glo), sand texture 24 Middle Row: All grass texture 31, sand texture 4 Then I wanted to see if the different themes had any effect on how the textures showed up. So I stuck with grass texture 31/sand texture 4 and I took screenshots again on each of the themes, also at 0700, 1200, and 1600, also with the same sun position settings and clear weather. In order of rows: Desert, Boreal, Tropical, Countryside, Harvest, Delta, Rustic, Swiss, Steppe, Autumn, Highlands As you can see, mostly from the noon lighting pictures, the theme does not have any effect on how the textures show up. Now, each theme does play with water differently, some will lighten grass underneath trees, and some have more natural looking cliffsides but that has nothing to do with textures. Plants, trees, and rocks will effect how we perceive color. The lighter colored palms, oaks, and pines may clash with a darker texture like #31 and a large, dark, evergreen forest with a texture pallet of #24 will make that already bright texture seem even brighter. A lot of designers have their favorite, go-to combinations. I think there are a few that look more natural than others but you shouldn't be afraid to experiment. One thing that was pointed out (and you see it when you use the same texture colors on everything) is that the shorter the grass is, generally the brighter the color becomes. This is true if your grass is all the same type, however, when you start mixing colors to maybe try and get a Bermuda fairway with Rye rough and Poa Annua greens, your colors may clash again (or not) because you may have a very dark green with a light colored rough and a mid-tone fairway. That's why I usually start with a green color I like that goes will with my course's theme and then choose a fairway that fits. Then I'll experiment with rough and heavy rough colors, generally choosing the same texture number for each of those. Finally, I choose a sand texture that I like although to my eye, most of the sand textures don't look that different in terms of color once you get past the first page. They all just seem like various shades of "white". I can hear the boys of Pierce & Pierce saying "That's bone." "No, that's eggshell." "You're both wrong, it's pale nimbus white." "I don't know, looks more off-white to me." 8.7.1
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Mar 24, 2021 11:53:06 GMT -5
Also, I forgot to mention, your own TV or monitor color settings will affect how you see the color as well. Things like Tint and Saturation may make certain colors more or less appealing to you as will the color of the light that you are viewing them under. You may find "the perfect" color combination only to have people complain that they clash or they're too bright, etc. If at all possible, I recommend designing with neutral (default) settings for your TV or monitor color settings to try and mitigate this difference. That doesn't mean someone won't play your course with their own monitor's saturation cranked way up but at least you'll know that when you designed them, they worked. 8.7.1
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Post by virtualgolfer65 on Mar 24, 2021 13:24:35 GMT -5
Fantastic work here! This will be a good jumping off point for new designers, rather than just "use what looks good". That assumes that the designer has an eye for color, etc. Any help will alleviate the overwhelming nature of designing for new folks. As they get further along then they can let their "texture picking freak flag fly". Alright, so just as a way to help get this started I went and took a bunch of screenshots. Now, I'm not going to go all out in trying every combination because there are 1,081,344 different combinations you could go with but I wanted to at least test a few of the textures using all the same number texture on each of the Fairways, Greens, Rough, and Heavy Rough. I also chose a bunker color I thought looked nice (since I don't think these numbers necessarily align with the rest as far as matching goes) and I took a screenshot in 3 different types of lighting. 60 degree inclination, 119 degree orientation, 0700, 1200, and 1600 all under clear weather conditions. The biggest thing you will notice is that lighting is the key to getting a good texture look. There are some textures that work better in morning or afternoon lighting. There are some that actually don't look half bad under noon lighting conditions, and then some that should be avoided under certain lighting conditions. 1st set: Top Row: All grass texture 1, sand texture 1 Middle Row: All grass texture 2, sand texture 2 Bottom Row: All grass texture 5, sand texture 8 2nd set: Top Row: All grass texture 10, sand texture 3 Middle Row: All grass texture 17, sand texture 12 Bottom Row: All grass texture 20, sand texture 14 3rd Set Top Row: All grass texture 24 (day-glo), sand texture 24 Middle Row: All grass texture 31, sand texture 4 Then I wanted to see if the different themes had any effect on how the textures showed up. So I stuck with grass texture 31/sand texture 4 and I took screenshots again on each of the themes, also at 0700, 1200, and 1600, also with the same sun position settings and clear weather. In order of rows: Desert, Boreal, Tropical, Countryside, Harvest, Delta, Rustic, Swiss, Steppe, Autumn, Highlands As you can see, mostly from the noon lighting pictures, the theme does not have any effect on how the textures show up. Now, each theme does play with water differently, some will lighten grass underneath trees, and some have more natural looking cliffsides but that has nothing to do with textures. Plants, trees, and rocks will effect how we perceive color. The lighter colored palms, oaks, and pines may clash with a darker texture like #31 and a large, dark, evergreen forest with a texture pallet of #24 will make that already bright texture seem even brighter. A lot of designers have their favorite, go-to combinations. I think there are a few that look more natural than others but you shouldn't be afraid to experiment. One thing that was pointed out (and you see it when you use the same texture colors on everything) is that the shorter the grass is, generally the brighter the color becomes. This is true if your grass is all the same type, however, when you start mixing colors to maybe try and get a Bermuda fairway with Rye rough and Poa Annua greens, your colors may clash again (or not) because you may have a very dark green with a light colored rough and a mid-tone fairway. That's why I usually start with a green color I like that goes will with my course's theme and then choose a fairway that fits. Then I'll experiment with rough and heavy rough colors, generally choosing the same texture number for each of those. Finally, I choose a sand texture that I like although to my eye, most of the sand textures don't look that different in terms of color once you get past the first page. They all just seem like various shades of "white". I can hear the boys of Pierce & Pierce saying "That's bone." "No, that's eggshell." "You're both wrong, it's pale nimbus white." "I don't know, looks more off-white to me." 8.7.1
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Post by lessangster on Mar 24, 2021 13:49:15 GMT -5
What would you recommend for a Scottish links course, just in general
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Mar 25, 2021 8:44:00 GMT -5
What would you recommend for a Scottish links course, just in general I actually wouldn't recommend any of the textures I have pictured here. I would try and stick to a texture that looks "smooth" since a lot of Scottish links courses feature very little rough outside of what we would call "heavy rough" that grows wild. A lot of the links courses cut everything down to a single height and the tees, fairways, and greens all flow together. I know a lot of designers try and use textures for the fairways and greens that are very similar in color so it looks almost like it's cut from the same type grass. For one of my nine-hole courses, I tried to emulate Cabot Cliffs which cuts their grass almost to a single height like this: Mine came out like this: I need to dip back into that course to get the exact texture numbers but I believe I started with the green texture, either 8 or 16. I know 16 is a "smooth" texture that I like a lot but that might actually be too light for what I have used here. One thing to think about with a Links course is whether or not you want to use fringe around the green. I've been designing a lot of my courses now without fringe, and especially when there is fairway surrounding the green. The fringe colors a sometimes a lot darker than the green color and it can leave this weird ring around your greens. Unless you have heavy rough up against your green (which doesn't happen a lot), I might say be adventurous and remove the fringe. You'll still be able to chip the same from a fairway that surrounds and depending on your rough settings, if the player is in the short rough around your green, they can still hit most chips easily. 8.7.1
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 28, 2021 10:40:25 GMT -5
This is a very cool tool. Thanks for putting it together.
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