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Post by shotstone on Mar 17, 2021 20:31:28 GMT -5
Obviously there are a lot of fans of the great classic template-ists (that's probably not a thing, but I'm rolling with it) - Reynor, Macdonald, Banks, Tillinghast (dare I include him here???), etc... But are there any designers in the 'modern' era that get you excited or get your blood boiling? Why?
I have several courses I absolutely can't stand, but there really aren't any consistencies in the designers. I'm curious if anyone has a passion for or against anyone in 'in the game' designing today. Let me know!
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Post by Q on Mar 17, 2021 23:01:57 GMT -5
On this forum you will see a lot of disdain for: Fazio, Nicklaus, Trent Jones JR, Reese Jones
and a lot of fanboying over: Doak, Coore and Crenshaw, Gil Hanse
As for lesser known architects or firms, I think Lassi Pekka Tilander looks promising as well as Jackson Kahn Design
That's to only mention modern designers
Personally I think reese jones is the worst on that list and C&C are my favorites
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slottie
Weekend Golfer
Nazca Sandhills... go play it you fools
Posts: 95
TGCT Name: Oliver Slot
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by slottie on Mar 18, 2021 5:18:34 GMT -5
Rob Collins is an up and coming guy
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Post by theclv24 on Mar 18, 2021 8:27:46 GMT -5
I think the most exposure I've had in terms of seeing the pros play and playing virtually is Gil Hanse. I have to say I'm unequivocally a fan. He doesn't seem to have a signature style, so you never know what you are going to get from him. And as good as his original courses are, I think he might be even better at restorations.
Tom Doak is the one who in theory I feel like I should like the most. I have a lot of exposure to his writing and podcast appearances, but I don't have much exposure to his work. I have a standing invite to play Ballyneal this summer, so hopefully I can make it happen. Would also like to play The Loop this summer. It seems like Memorial Park might be a keeper on tour, so I'm excited to see more of that one. I guess by the end of the year maybe I'll have a more definitive opinion on him.
Coore and Crenshaw are the ones I might be most impressed by, because I feel like I can't copy their work in the game. Friar's Head and Cabot Cliffs are pretty awe-inspiring. My best chance at playing their work might be the Warren Course at Notre Dame since I moved farther away from Sand Valley.
I enjoy listening to David McKlay-Kidd, and Bandon Dunes is a lot of fun to play in the game.
Sweeten's Cove is pretty fun to play in the game, although I don't know how my short game would hold up if I were to play it. I feel like there's a chance I might not like it. I also enjoy listening to Rob Collins, seems like an awesome person. I will wait to see what Landman is like before I make any conclusions about King-Collins though.
As you can see, most of my opinions are formed either by admiring images and videos of a course, or playing it virtually. I don't know if these are accurate assessments or not. As for architects that I actually play in real life?
Mike DeVries is probably at the head of the class. I've played Kingsley Club, easily my #1 course I've played. I would like to play Greywalls, but his other public courses in Michigan seem like a more likely option.
The one I play the most is probably Arthur Hills. Some of his stuff is decent, but there's a lot of repetition. He's gotten some nice pieces of land, like Bay Harbor, which was my #1 played course for awhile strictly for the setting, but there's always a wonder in my mind of what a different architect could do with the land.
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Post by mde103 on Mar 18, 2021 9:05:42 GMT -5
I think the most exposure I've had in terms of seeing the pros play and playing virtually is Gil Hanse. I have to say I'm unequivocally a fan. He doesn't seem to have a signature style, so you never know what you are going to get from him. And as good as his original courses are, I think he might be even better at restorations.
Tom Doak is the one who in theory I feel like I should like the most. I have a lot of exposure to his writing and podcast appearances, but I don't have much exposure to his work. I have a standing invite to play Ballyneal this summer, so hopefully I can make it happen. Would also like to play The Loop this summer. It seems like Memorial Park might be a keeper on tour, so I'm excited to see more of that one. I guess by the end of the year maybe I'll have a more definitive opinion on him.
Coore and Crenshaw are the ones I might be most impressed by, because I feel like I can't copy their work in the game. Friar's Head and Cabot Cliffs are pretty awe-inspiring. My best chance at playing their work might be the Warren Course at Notre Dame since I moved farther away from Sand Valley.
I enjoy listening to David McKlay-Kidd, and Bandon Dunes is a lot of fun to play in the game.
Sweeten's Cove is pretty fun to play in the game, although I don't know how my short game would hold up if I were to play it. I feel like there's a chance I might not like it. I also enjoy listening to Rob Collins, seems like an awesome person. I will wait to see what Landman is like before I make any conclusions about King-Collins though.
As you can see, most of my opinions are formed either by admiring images and videos of a course, or playing it virtually. I don't know if these are accurate assessments or not. As for architects that I actually play in real life?
Mike DeVries is probably at the head of the class. I've played Kingsley Club, easily my #1 course I've played. I would like to play Greywalls, but his other public courses in Michigan seem like a more likely option.
The one I play the most is probably Arthur Hills. Some of his stuff is decent, but there's a lot of repetition. He's gotten some nice pieces of land, like Bay Harbor, which was my #1 played course for awhile strictly for the setting, but there's always a wonder in my mind of what a different architect could do with the land.
It seems DeVries rarely gets mentioned. I haven’t played any of his courses, but our guys trip this year is to Michigan, finishing the trip with Greywalls. I have been reading a lot about his courses on Fried Egg, and we are really looking forward to it.
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Post by shotstone on Mar 18, 2021 9:53:00 GMT -5
I think the most exposure I've had in terms of seeing the pros play and playing virtually is Gil Hanse. I have to say I'm unequivocally a fan. He doesn't seem to have a signature style, so you never know what you are going to get from him. And as good as his original courses are, I think he might be even better at restorations.
Tom Doak is the one who in theory I feel like I should like the most. I have a lot of exposure to his writing and podcast appearances, but I don't have much exposure to his work. I have a standing invite to play Ballyneal this summer, so hopefully I can make it happen. Would also like to play The Loop this summer. It seems like Memorial Park might be a keeper on tour, so I'm excited to see more of that one. I guess by the end of the year maybe I'll have a more definitive opinion on him.
Coore and Crenshaw are the ones I might be most impressed by, because I feel like I can't copy their work in the game. Friar's Head and Cabot Cliffs are pretty awe-inspiring. My best chance at playing their work might be the Warren Course at Notre Dame since I moved farther away from Sand Valley.
I enjoy listening to David McKlay-Kidd, and Bandon Dunes is a lot of fun to play in the game.
Sweeten's Cove is pretty fun to play in the game, although I don't know how my short game would hold up if I were to play it. I feel like there's a chance I might not like it. I also enjoy listening to Rob Collins, seems like an awesome person. I will wait to see what Landman is like before I make any conclusions about King-Collins though.
As you can see, most of my opinions are formed either by admiring images and videos of a course, or playing it virtually. I don't know if these are accurate assessments or not. As for architects that I actually play in real life?
Mike DeVries is probably at the head of the class. I've played Kingsley Club, easily my #1 course I've played. I would like to play Greywalls, but his other public courses in Michigan seem like a more likely option.
The one I play the most is probably Arthur Hills. Some of his stuff is decent, but there's a lot of repetition. He's gotten some nice pieces of land, like Bay Harbor, which was my #1 played course for awhile strictly for the setting, but there's always a wonder in my mind of what a different architect could do with the land.
I worked out at Bay Harbor. Fantastic course. I think the Links / Quarry is one of the most unique and interesting set of 18 holes to be played. Definitely agree that he was given an insane canvas, and it would be interesting to see what someone else could have done with it!
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Post by theclv24 on Mar 18, 2021 10:48:17 GMT -5
It seems DeVries rarely gets mentioned. I haven’t played any of his courses, but our guys trip this year is to Michigan, finishing the trip with Greywalls. I have been reading a lot about his courses on Fried Egg, and we are really looking forward to it.
Nice. Would be interested to hear what your itinerary is.
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Post by shotstone on Mar 18, 2021 11:53:24 GMT -5
On this forum you will see a lot of disdain for: Fazio, Nicklaus, Trent Jones JR, Reese Jones What are the general complaints against Fazio, Nicklaus, & Jones Jr.?
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slottie
Weekend Golfer
Nazca Sandhills... go play it you fools
Posts: 95
TGCT Name: Oliver Slot
Tour: Kinetic
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Post by slottie on Mar 18, 2021 11:57:29 GMT -5
^^^ this'll get interesting
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Post by b101 on Mar 18, 2021 14:08:29 GMT -5
On this forum you will see a lot of disdain for: Fazio, Nicklaus, Trent Jones JR, Reese Jones What are the general complaints against Fazio, Nicklaus, & Jones Jr.? Could be wrong on some of this as I’m more interested in the architecture than the architects themselves, hence why I’ve read up far more on C/C, Doak, Hanse, Kingsley, Clayton, DeVries, Colt, Raynor etc than I have these guys. But giving it a stab: Fazio: the actual golf is entirely secondary to looks (a few exceptions, with Gozzer Ranch probably the best of his catalogue). His Pinehurst no 4 was an absolute travesty and if you compare that one to the Hanse restoration, it’s clear how much better an architect Hanse is. Nicklaus: getting better. Used to be pure penal golf based on shots that he could hit without really thinking of the amateur. Getting better though, and I want to say that working with Doak at Sebonack was a turning point. Don’t know much about Trent tbh.
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Post by cd06 on Mar 18, 2021 14:18:20 GMT -5
There are no words about what's wrong with Rees... look at what he did to Monterey Peninsula CC and Sleepy Hollow before their renovations.
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Post by Q on Mar 18, 2021 14:39:19 GMT -5
What are the general complaints against Fazio, Nicklaus, & Jones Jr.? Don’t know much about Trent tbh. Trent jones Jr is extremely prolific and does mostly cheap, municipal golf courses, so I've played a LOT of them. He tends to leave no trace of the original landscape (he loves using dynamite) and tends to add a lot of mounds everywhere. His courses also tend to overuse hazards and incourse OB but that might be because most of his projects are lower budget or have limited land. Another architect that definitely is improving and has.more natural courses recently as he is definitely being influenced by doak
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Post by mde103 on Mar 18, 2021 15:16:48 GMT -5
There are no words about what's wrong with Rees... look at what he did to Monterey Peninsula CC and Sleepy Hollow before their renovations. Agreed, I think renovations and “restorations” at high profile courses as well as wasting great sites, rather than their slew of mediocre courses, are why they are talked about so poorly on golf architecture sites.
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Post by shotstone on Mar 18, 2021 15:51:16 GMT -5
There are no words about what's wrong with Rees... look at what he did to Monterey Peninsula CC and Sleepy Hollow before their renovations. Sleepy Hollow post restoration is absolutely brilliant. Can't speak to it before the restoration, but some of the holes there are absolute stunners.
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Post by Q on Mar 18, 2021 16:04:11 GMT -5
There are no words about what's wrong with Rees... look at what he did to Monterey Peninsula CC and Sleepy Hollow before their renovations. Sleepy Hollow post restoration is absolutely brilliant. Can't speak to it before the restoration, but some of the holes there are absolute stunners. Hanse really had to undo a bunch of terrible decisions from reese jones, jones' remodel of the course was just all-around terrible
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