theboldb
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
Tour: Beer League/TST
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Post by theboldb on Mar 5, 2021 8:49:00 GMT -5
In your opinion...
1)What are the essentials required for designing a links course? 2) How are they achieved in the course designer?
The second part of the question is important, because it's an area where those experienced with the software can help out those who may have a good grasp of golf architecture, but lack the skills to bring their ideas to fruition.
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Post by cd06 on Mar 5, 2021 8:51:45 GMT -5
Most important thing is naturality. Play digitalbunny's Wood Duck Dunes or Galleigh Links, or golfwolfuk's Lost Preserve for the undulations on three different types of links course. The trick to avoid auto flattening definitely helps!
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Post by richnufc99 on Mar 5, 2021 9:22:07 GMT -5
Undulating fairways, a good number of pot bunkers, few or no trees, by the sea, dunes/mounds, out and in routing ... define a true links course, of which it is argued there are only about 246 in the world...
Of course you can have a links-style course which widens the definition - and therefore you can include courses 100s of miles from the ocean.
In the game - typically done with the browner textures (although doesn’t have to be).... often playing out of a town/village... planted with gorse and other low lying bushes... with beautifully undulating fairways - worked for me on my Turnstone Golf Links ... lots of other examples available such as Dunstan Head
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Post by cd06 on Mar 5, 2021 9:27:39 GMT -5
Undulating fairways, a good number of pot bunkers, few or no trees, by the sea, dunes/mounds, out and in routing ... define a true links course, of which it is argued there are only about 246 in the world... Of course you can have a links-style course which widens the definition - and therefore you can include courses 100s of miles from the ocean. In the game - typically done with the browner textures (although doesn’t have to be).... often playing out of a town/village... planted with gorse and other low lying bushes... with beautifully undulating fairways - worked for me on my Turnstone Golf Links ... lots of other examples available such as Dunstan Head I have the book that said there were only 246... great read. Amazing pictures in there as well - if you haven't heard of the book True Links, it's a must read!
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Post by richnufc99 on Mar 5, 2021 9:30:54 GMT -5
Undulating fairways, a good number of pot bunkers, few or no trees, by the sea, dunes/mounds, out and in routing ... define a true links course, of which it is argued there are only about 246 in the world... Of course you can have a links-style course which widens the definition - and therefore you can include courses 100s of miles from the ocean. In the game - typically done with the browner textures (although doesn’t have to be).... often playing out of a town/village... planted with gorse and other low lying bushes... with beautifully undulating fairways - worked for me on my Turnstone Golf Links ... lots of other examples available such as Dunstan Head I have the book that said there were only 246... great read. Amazing pictures in there as well - if you haven't heard of the book True Links, it's a must read! Yes I was quoting from the said book.... absolutely it’s a great book...
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theboldb
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
Tour: Beer League/TST
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Post by theboldb on Mar 5, 2021 9:45:32 GMT -5
To make dunes I've thought about using the fuzzy star shsped brush on raise, then smoothing it over. How do you normally create dunes?
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Post by richnufc99 on Mar 5, 2021 9:58:25 GMT -5
Depends... links land has a sandy soil throughout and the smooth mounds all around the course are dunes but are covered in grass... so that’s just the fuzzy brush on page 4 with some gentle raising... the ones nearer the beach, using bunker surfaces up the side of a hill with grasses and grass-like bushes on the interface between heavy rough and bunker... often natural green sites sit in the middle of a group of mounds...and often blind to some approaches... I’d recommend getting onto some of the courses (in the game!) and playing them ... and look at photos on google... Royal Birkdale, Troon, Carnoustie... all good examples
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Mar 5, 2021 13:14:11 GMT -5
Avoiding auto-flatten is an absolute must. Also, I recommend building the entire plot before laying down any holes. One of the best attributes of a links course is that the holes are pretty much created by nature. Make your plot first then “find” the holes. Don’t marry yourself to a specific par or specific strategies as they will vary wildly depending on course conditions.
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 5, 2021 18:51:08 GMT -5
Make it as firm as possible. Firmness is the most essential quality of links golf IMO. Design for the firmness and make the player have to consider the ground on all shots.
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Post by blueblood1995 on Mar 5, 2021 19:32:24 GMT -5
Absolutely and categorically no waterfalls!
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theboldb
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
Tour: Beer League/TST
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Post by theboldb on Mar 6, 2021 17:44:05 GMT -5
Agree with all these comments. I love designing the plot first then letting the holes present themselves naturally. I was working on extending my Designers League entry, but I've shelved that for now. Returned to working on a links course and its going far better than trying to force things to work when I'm not feeling it.
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Post by Leecey on Mar 7, 2021 7:15:57 GMT -5
I’m a long way from an expert on links or the designer but I did a fairly traditional links for the rookie design contest and loved the challenge of trying to make it interesting and varied. While I was really pleased with how it turned out I’d love to start again as I’d do some things very differently second time around, the main one being around the general terrain. I more or less started with a blank flat canvas and created every single contour on the plot manually. This left it feeling a little unnatural I think so it’s probably worth you using the plot randomisation techniques that are covered on some of the tutorials. IT also meant that lots of the natural humps and bumps you’d get on most links courses were missing resulting in fairly flat playing surfaces.
What I think I did reasonably well was having an idea of how i wanted the course to play: wide fairways, firm conditions, large greens with largely helpful sloping, and trying to emphasise the ground game as much as possible. I also wanted it to feel like it was a fairly open piece of land so no hole felt isolated and lost in the dunes . What I’d advise is trying to have an overall idea of how you want it to play and look before you do anything. If you want it to play firm and fast then you need to layout the holes to accommodate that, as precious posters have said.
If you’re going to have a burn or something similar I’d suggest having a really good plan in terms of how you’re going to use it before you do anything as moving it can be very time-consuming. It can also be really difficult to make it look natural (which I definitely didn’t achieve).
I’d also recommend, if you’ve not done a links before, just practicing with bunker sculpting, particularly if you’re going for pots. Don’t underestimate just how tough it is to make the pots look natural and play the way you want them to in terms of balls feeding into them. I found it difficult to make the pots look like they fitted into the surrounding land as opposed to just looking like I’d plonked down a hole in the middle of a fairway. I think they turned out ok in the end but this was probably the most time-consuming element of the course.
Have a look at Dunstan Head and if there’s anything in there that you like (or want to avoid doing) and want to chat though - just drop me a DM.
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Post by b101 on Mar 7, 2021 13:52:55 GMT -5
There is basically only one guideline: the ball landing should only be half of the puzzle.
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theboldb
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
Tour: Beer League/TST
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Post by theboldb on Mar 7, 2021 17:52:39 GMT -5
These have all been great comments thanks. Most of the points I was already familiar with but it helps to get a feel for what folk think is most important. My current project (first proper attempt at a links course) has by far been the most enjoyable to date... I love the natural look of the course... it's actually starting to play and feel like courses I've played irl.
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Post by williamwes626 on Mar 13, 2021 11:36:51 GMT -5
I’d also recommend, if you’ve not done a links before, just practicing with bunker sculpting, particularly if you’re going for pots. Don’t underestimate just how tough it is to make the pots look natural and play the way you want them to in terms of balls feeding into them. I found it difficult to make the pots look like they fitted into the surrounding land as opposed to just looking like I’d plonked down a hole in the middle of a fairway. I think they turned out ok in the end but this was probably the most time-consuming element of the course. Have a look at Dunstan Head and if there’s anything in there that you like (or want to avoid doing) and want to chat though - just drop me a DM. Sometimes I think it's tough to make pot bunkers natural because they seem like the least natural element of a links course anyway. The majority of the time they're perfect flat circles of sand with no undulation in a depression of land that can look more like a manmade shape than the rest of the natural undulating land. I love pot bunkers and they're one of golf's oldest traditions, but I wonder how natural they really are.
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