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Post by wayne0881 on Jan 11, 2021 10:43:49 GMT -5
Hi All,
I wanted to ask all the designers on here about course routing as i'm just interested in everyones work flow.
I know some designers when creating holes like to finish a hole before starting a new one and others jump around with muliple golf holes incomplete until it all comes together, but how many of you route the whole course on the plot from the get go - are there any of you that pick a plot for hole one (create/build/plant) then look where hole 2 would go etc...
thanks all
keep up the great work
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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 11, 2021 10:50:35 GMT -5
I like to route the entire course first. I'll think about generally how long I want the course to be then start drawing lines on piece of paper until I come up with 18 holes in their general locations and general distances.
Next I'll put together a scorecard to make sure I have varied flow and distances (example: par 3s of different distances...)
After I like the map and scorecard. I'll map the waypoints in the designer and away we go.
Lately though I've tried to leave more room for on the fly interpretation of my routings as I've found my hole designs to be better if I go with the flow of the land more than trying to force a specific design into it
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Post by joegolferg on Jan 11, 2021 11:08:57 GMT -5
The correct way to route a course is to actually get the sprawling housing development in first as this is THE biggest feature of the course. Without that big feature in place the course is worthless. Once the housing is in then you route around and in-between them accordingly, showing off as much of the real estate as possible.
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Post by lessthanbread on Jan 11, 2021 11:20:38 GMT -5
The correct way to route a course is to actually get the sprawling housing development in first as this is THE biggest feature of the course. Without that big feature in place the course is worthless. Once the housing is in then you route around and in-between them accordingly, showing off as much of the real estate as possible. Like so....
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Post by wayne0881 on Jan 11, 2021 11:28:58 GMT -5
Interesting stuff....
Okay so kinda create the "living world" first or at least the main features, then build into the land.
cheers for the input
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Post by mvpmanatee on Jan 11, 2021 11:37:36 GMT -5
I know some people design on paper and pen and then build the entire plot out - but I usually like to take a plot with some existing elevations to it (I spam different brushes to get the right feel) and then I will just start by finding some of the best green sites, working out where fairways might be to those greens, and then working out tees from there. Sometimes, of course ,there will be green sites that can't be used, as they overlap with other holes, but that is the beauty of routing a golf course, there are infinite possibilities.
I eventually end up with 18 holes and then decide where the best club house location will be. This has been prone to switch across the plot multiple times, even after holes are built. Usually I will decide whether I want long wider holes or shorter narrow holes, and I work the tees and fairway locations around that. There are always a few holes that are put in seemingly strange locations, but those ones I will have to work the land to my favor to meet. I always start with the best looking hole as it really pumps me up for the rest of the course!
Hope this helps
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Post by tpetro on Jan 11, 2021 11:40:34 GMT -5
Interesting stuff.... Okay so kinda create the "living world" first or at least the main features, then build into the land. cheers for the input He's kidding lol but what to take away from this is first build the land (no houses), then route all 18, then start building.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Jan 11, 2021 11:43:56 GMT -5
Interesting stuff.... Okay so kinda create the "living world" first or at least the main features, then build into the land. cheers for the input He was being sarcastic as in the US thats how most courses built between 1950 and 2000 were done. Definitely golf first!
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Post by mvpmanatee on Jan 11, 2021 11:45:03 GMT -5
The correct way to route a course is to actually get the sprawling housing development in first as this is THE biggest feature of the course. Without that big feature in place the course is worthless. Once the housing is in then you route around and in-between them accordingly, showing off as much of the real estate as possible. I really want to build some course with houses lining every hole on the property, and actually add decent strategies to it, just to make people mad.
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Post by mctrees02 on Jan 11, 2021 11:50:25 GMT -5
Joe is being sarcastic by taking a jab at how most courses built from 1960-2008 were “routed” through a master planned residential community.
I like building courses that could exist in real life so my process is probably a bit different than most. My course routing process is something like this: 1. Decide where in the world I want the course to exist. 2. Look at that place in google earth and find existing courses and/or empty plots of land where I could build the course. 3. Print off an image of that land, write in the boundary dimensions and also mark any interesting land features (creek, lake, ditch) and significant elevation changes (I’m on PS4 so no LiDAR data for a “precise” topo map). 4. Draw out routing patterns on blank paper until I find something that might work and then try to fit that routing to the printed map. 5. Moving to the designer, roughly shape the plot, measure the perimeter dimensions for my course and trace out the routing to make sure it fits. 6. If everything “fits” in the designer, then roughly build the big land features (creek, lake, ditch, etc). I’ll come back and plant them later but I need to know where and how big they are before I begin surfacing the holes around them. I’ve learned the hard way it’s a lot easier to move a hole than move a lake. 7. At that point, I begin building the holes I have a clear picture of and let the work of figuring out the others take me down a long and winding road until I either complete the course or shelve the project. I’ve trashed a lot more than I’ve completed so far!
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Post by mctrees02 on Jan 11, 2021 11:53:12 GMT -5
The correct way to route a course is to actually get the sprawling housing development in first as this is THE biggest feature of the course. Without that big feature in place the course is worthless. Once the housing is in then you route around and in-between them accordingly, showing off as much of the real estate as possible. I really want to build some course with houses lining every hole on the property, and actually add decent strategies to it, just to make people mad. Sounds like a “fun” contest for PC designers. Somebody builds a course file with the neighborhood already in place and then you have to figure out how to build the course around it.
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Post by trailducker on Jan 11, 2021 12:42:11 GMT -5
Maybe this is carry over from my profession (being an Architect) but I do a lot on paper first to help me visualize. I am currently workign out ideas for my second and third courses congruently and following a similar pattern as my first:
1. Come up with the location, theme and 1 or two big features that will carry over hole to hole. So my first one I knew I wanted to be on cliffs and on the coast. I knew I wanted wastebunkers in between holes. 2. Draw at 1:200 scale routing ideas. There also usually are some particular holes in mind at particular area. I knew I wanted to try 2 Par 5's on one nine and 3 Par 3's on another. I knew I wanted a Par 3 on the beach hitting to an island in the ocean, a Par 3 hitting to an island on a cliff. Also I thought I wanted my first hole to be drivable but blind for those taking that route and my last hole to be a long skinny Par 5 along the cliffs back to the club house. With particular hole ideas in mind I draw the routing while kind of working out elevations in my head as well as deciding on variety hole to hole. I would draw a few loosely then when I pick one I like draw it with a ruler. 3. Then at 1:50 scale I would draw sketches for each hole one by one. This helps me think about the progression of holes so there's variety. It's not a strict blueprint just an idea I know will be adjusted when I'm in the designer. 4. Now I go to the designer. I emply Mayday's method of flattening a whole plot then adding random undulations all over it. Then I begin routing . The hardest part is figuring out where to start routing based on my routing diagram on the plot so you have room where you need. Then I do big moved in the land elevation here. There's a bunch more that will be done to elevations later but just to get the big elevation changes in. I should have speant more time on this on my first course, it took a lot for me to get the elevations right after I started designing. 5. So when I did my first I would do most of the building of a hole one by one. Greens, Fairways, Bunkers, sculpting, light planting in spots it's important. Once I finish all the holes around a hazard I would then build that and keep going until I finish. At times I would give myself a break from the course and jump to the club house area. But on my second and third courses I am kind of changing this up. I am now adding the green, fairways and bunkers but not doing any scuplting or other hazards yet. This is giving me a bit more flexibility then I gave myself on the first course. As I move through the holes I am able to adjust a hole or tee location and making big adjustments to my hole designs that seem to be strong ones. Then I'm going to go in and build the big hazards next as make more big elevation adjustments, or hole specific ones, I still need to.
So far I am preliminary working in designer on one course laying down the green, fairways and bunkers and have routing for another course drawn. I'm going to work on them together, not sure which one will win as the next course publish yet.
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Jan 11, 2021 12:44:43 GMT -5
The correct way to route a course is to actually get the sprawling housing development in first as this is THE biggest feature of the course. Without that big feature in place the course is worthless. Once the housing is in then you route around and in-between them accordingly, showing off as much of the real estate as possible. * “Dislike button” lol😂. It is nice to see you finally start to appreciate modern golf course architecture!
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Post by mvpmanatee on Jan 11, 2021 13:13:13 GMT -5
I really want to build some course with houses lining every hole on the property, and actually add decent strategies to it, just to make people mad. Sounds like a “fun” contest for PC designers. Somebody builds a course file with the neighborhood already in place and then you have to figure out how to build the course around it. I could easily create a plot with 50 yard corridors to work with so players have to fit the course to it. Extra points if you add more houses.
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Post by wayne0881 on Jan 11, 2021 13:16:35 GMT -5
hahahaha! I did wonder.... I thought that plant meter is going to be gone before anything has been built, but in saying that I do like the idea of building around something (granted not a housing estate lol) but a lake for example - and then let ideas come from that. Yes I have seen Mayday's undulation trick to stop the auto flattening which is very cool, so have begun to use that also - I think plotting out all 18 holes is probably the way to go to start with, that way I know that it's done I can then just get on and build/plant/create. Those of you that draw it all out first - fair play! you have more patience than me plus my drawing skills are less than desired. Great feedback from everyone Also routing holes close to each other so that holes share some of the same features (planting,lakes etc..) is also a good tip that I saw (I believe B101 Youtube or Twitch) is where I saw that. Thanks for all the tips - food for thought when creating a workflow.
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