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Post by peskypeanut on Apr 12, 2021 12:52:36 GMT -5
Checking in on this - I’ve been fast with Dr/3W/3H for most of this game, perfect for everything else, with the occasional fast for in between yardages. If I had to play perfect everything I don’t think it’d weaken my game much, and would prob go slightly more forgiving woods. If I played fast every shot I’d def be more consistent but just don’t enjoy it for approaches. Try it and see. No harm in a little experimental round or two. I’d like to see them. The difference in the aim markers will be significant when missing the mark with perfect tempo attempts (I know that you know this). Also, by not weakening your game much, what does that mean? A stroke or two? Three or four? Curious what that equals. That answer will mean a lot actually. Let me know if you stream/YouTube those rounds. I’ll check it out. This is me trying to play for perfects. I managed 10 under, my FIR was down quite a bit. I guess it cost me probably 3 strokes, maybe more. I was struggling with tempo a bit. I guess the biggest draw back playing for perfect drives is that your round takes ages as you need to take practice swings.
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Post by BillySastard976 on Apr 12, 2021 13:13:25 GMT -5
Try it and see. No harm in a little experimental round or two. I’d like to see them. The difference in the aim markers will be significant when missing the mark with perfect tempo attempts (I know that you know this). Also, by not weakening your game much, what does that mean? A stroke or two? Three or four? Curious what that equals. That answer will mean a lot actually. Let me know if you stream/YouTube those rounds. I’ll check it out. This is me trying to play for perfects. I managed 10 under, my FIR was down quite a bit. I guess it cost me probably 3 strokes, maybe more. I was struggling with tempo a bit. I guess the biggest draw back playing for perfect drives is that your round takes ages as you need to take practice swings. I've never taken practice swings but probably should now and then. As you say it would certainly add time to the round. I don't do it for putting either which seems to take you quite a bit of time from what I saw. Thats not a criticism, just that I'd find it tedious
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Post by timh on Apr 12, 2021 13:22:51 GMT -5
Mediocre player here, and Xbox One guy. Yes, I try for the perfects, but...guard for the inevitable red fasts and avoiding the killer red/white/grey slows. I'm learning to shape my approach shots...mainly hitting a draw...fades are tougher for me, but I'm working on it. The draw seems to weaken the effects of a red to white fast. Based on green slope (right to left sloping) I'll aim approximately 10 to 15 feet to the right of the hole. If I hit the perfect tempo I'll be in good shape as I'll be approximately 10 feet right of the hole with a good birdie putt awaiting. white fast, then I'll be 10 feet left of the hole. Red fast, well with luck I'll be 20 to 25 feet left of the hole with a chance at a birdie, but high percentage a par. My scores in practice rounds seem to support this approach with shot shaping. Of course, I don't hit the mark 100 percent but I'm working on it.
Driving off the tee...again, playing for the perfect or white fast but guarding for the red fast which means that my aim target has to be closure to the right side of the fairway, but still giving me some degree of error for the slows that show up no matter the tempo. Xbox is a finicky mistress and she must be pampered.
Oh, I don't care if others are hitting exclusively red fasts, I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I am my biggest critic. I'll post how crappy my rounds were, but never about anyone else.
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Post by xvshitanvx on Apr 12, 2021 18:25:50 GMT -5
Try it and see. No harm in a little experimental round or two. I’d like to see them. The difference in the aim markers will be significant when missing the mark with perfect tempo attempts (I know that you know this). Also, by not weakening your game much, what does that mean? A stroke or two? Three or four? Curious what that equals. That answer will mean a lot actually. Let me know if you stream/YouTube those rounds. I’ll check it out. This is me trying to play for perfects. I managed 10 under, my FIR was down quite a bit. I guess it cost me probably 3 strokes, maybe more. I was struggling with tempo a bit. I guess the biggest draw back playing for perfect drives is that your round takes ages as you need to take practice swings. This is my first attempt at Calhoun County. -11, with 3 easy putts missed on the back 9. 50% FIR 89% GIR. Driving wasn’t great for a bit, lot of red slows. And -8 on a silly course, Sarsparilla. 14% FIR 67% GIR.
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Post by nevadaballin on Apr 17, 2021 19:49:51 GMT -5
Try it and see. No harm in a little experimental round or two. I’d like to see them. The difference in the aim markers will be significant when missing the mark with perfect tempo attempts (I know that you know this). Also, by not weakening your game much, what does that mean? A stroke or two? Three or four? Curious what that equals. That answer will mean a lot actually. Let me know if you stream/YouTube those rounds. I’ll check it out. This is me trying to play for perfects. I managed 10 under, my FIR was down quite a bit. I guess it cost me probably 3 strokes, maybe more. I was struggling with tempo a bit. I guess the biggest draw back playing for perfect drives is that your round takes ages as you need to take practice swings. The most interesting item in this is the practice swings. Playing for perfect tempo made you feel like you needed to do that.... a lot. Enough to make it feel like it was drawback. What makes it most interesting is that I’ve seen many upper tier players say they only use red fasts off the tee, with drivers, 3 woods or 3 hybrids but play for perfect tempo with everything else. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think you co-signed on that earlier in this thread. If that’s the case, why is it not a drawback then too? How many practice swings do you take during a round when you play your regular style, if any? To me, this kind of proves the point being made by those who are not fans of the red fasts exploitation. Thank you and xvshitanvx for doing the experiment and providing videos. I love that transparency and honesty. Many props to you guys. And still some good play with the perfect tempo. The next challenge would be playing the rest of the TGCT season that way but I won’t hold you to it Thanks again.
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Post by peskypeanut on Apr 18, 2021 2:10:56 GMT -5
This is me trying to play for perfects. I managed 10 under, my FIR was down quite a bit. I guess it cost me probably 3 strokes, maybe more. I was struggling with tempo a bit. I guess the biggest draw back playing for perfect drives is that your round takes ages as you need to take practice swings. The most interesting item in this is the practice swings. Playing for perfect tempo made you feel like you needed to do that.... a lot. Enough to make it feel like it was drawback. What makes it most interesting is that I’ve seen many upper tier players say they only use red fasts off the tee, with drivers, 3 woods or 3 hybrids but play for perfect tempo with everything else. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think you co-signed on that earlier in this thread. If that’s the case, why is it not a drawback then too? How many practice swings do you take during a round when you play your regular style, if any? To me, this kind of proves the point being made by those who are not fans of the red fasts exploitation. Thank you and xvshitanvx for doing the experiment and providing videos. I love that transparency and honesty. Many props to you guys. And still some good play with the perfect tempo. The next challenge would be playing the rest of the TGCT season that way but I won’t hold you to it Thanks again. I really would like to go for perfects on every shot but the fast is so OP I wouldn’t be able to compete. My compromise is only red fasting woods. I know it’s an exploit but I would probably be on elite tour if I didn’t. I think HB Studios are fairly happy with the state of the game. They know that active player numbers would drop significantly if the closed the red fast exploit. It’s a massive leveller that allows very average players to be somewhat competitive.
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Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2021 4:00:00 GMT -5
The most interesting item in this is the practice swings. Playing for perfect tempo made you feel like you needed to do that.... a lot. Enough to make it feel like it was drawback. What makes it most interesting is that I’ve seen many upper tier players say they only use red fasts off the tee, with drivers, 3 woods or 3 hybrids but play for perfect tempo with everything else. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think you co-signed on that earlier in this thread. If that’s the case, why is it not a drawback then too? How many practice swings do you take during a round when you play your regular style, if any? To me, this kind of proves the point being made by those who are not fans of the red fasts exploitation. Thank you and xvshitanvx for doing the experiment and providing videos. I love that transparency and honesty. Many props to you guys. And still some good play with the perfect tempo. The next challenge would be playing the rest of the TGCT season that way but I won’t hold you to it Thanks again. I really would like to go for perfects on every shot but the fast is so OP I wouldn’t be able to compete. My compromise is only red fasting woods. I know it’s an exploit but I would probably be on elite tour if I didn’t. I think HB Studios are fairly happy with the state of the game. They know that active player numbers would drop significantly if the closed the red fast exploit. It’s a massive leveller that allows very average players to be somewhat competitive. Are very average players only competing because they are playing an easier game with their woods than those who try to hit a good tempo with their woods . I don't understand this compromising on red fasting woods, if you can hit good tempo with approach shots you can hit good tempo with woods. Your last sentence isn't really logical, HB have put difficulty levels in the game for a reason. Why wouldn't an active player play a tempo difficulty he can handle rather than artificially making the game easier on a tougher difficulty level. I would be surprised if the swing isn't tweaked for the next game because it makes a mockery of swing difficulty and the games shot shaper and even the more forgiving woods. The driving was rubbish in TGC 2019 (way too easy) , they have massively improved it in 2K21 I love the challenge of trying to hit fairways. I use my 3 wood as much as my driver on certain courses and use draw and fade with the shot shaper off the tee.
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Post by xvshitanvx on Apr 18, 2021 5:14:10 GMT -5
I really would like to go for perfects on every shot but the fast is so OP I wouldn’t be able to compete. My compromise is only red fasting woods. I know it’s an exploit but I would probably be on elite tour if I didn’t. I think HB Studios are fairly happy with the state of the game. They know that active player numbers would drop significantly if the closed the red fast exploit. It’s a massive leveller that allows very average players to be somewhat competitive. Are very average players only competing because they are playing an easier game with their woods than those who try to hit a good tempo with their woods . I don't understand this compromising on red fasting woods, if you can hit good tempo with approach shots you can hit good tempo with woods. Your last sentence isn't really logical, HB have put difficulty levels in the game for a reason. Why wouldn't an active player play a tempo difficulty he can handle rather than artificially making the game easier on a tougher difficulty level. I would be surprised if the swing isn't tweaked for the next game because it makes a mockery of swing difficulty and the games shot shaper and even the more forgiving woods. The driving was rubbish in TGC 2019 (way too easy) , they have massively improved it in 2K21 I love the challenge of trying to hit fairways. I use my 3 wood as much as my driver on certain courses and use draw and fade with the shot shaper off the tee. We play max forgiveness irons and max distance woods, so the statement is logical in that framing. We could drop the distance and increase forgiveness in woods to play perfects throughout the bag but you start losing shots (mainly eagles) to distance loss that just isn’t worth it. On the practice swing topic, I’ve never used them and don’t think they’re that useful to my game. I know what a perfect tempo feels like so no point wasting time.
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Post by trentmcneely on Apr 18, 2021 6:36:06 GMT -5
I'd play more perfects if the tempo was consistent across game modes, or even consistent for an entire round. But sitting there taking 3 plus practice swings on every shot to see if there's some lag on this hole or if it's going to be the same tempo as the last hole just isn't enjoyable to me. It also makes no sense to me that shaping/spin make hitting your tempo harder. That's a bigger game flaw than the red-fasts, imo, because a power-draw is an actual golf thing but angle of attack affecting your tempo isn't. I much prefer the greater selection of shots that RF brings into the game and all the additional calculations you have to make for wind/aim/distance to dial up the right shot. I find that more rewarding than just x clicks for the wind and hope I can move a stick back and forth at the exact speed HB wants me to at this second.
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Post by hammers1man on Apr 18, 2021 10:02:24 GMT -5
Tempo in this game is club faace angle not downswing speed so the comparison to a power draw is incorrect as to hit a power draw you need more clubhead speed. The more you tilt the axis of the ball to generate a draw or hook the more carry distance you lose and I would guess that most hit a red fast with a straight swing plane which resembles more or a hook than a draw.
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Post by peskypeanut on Apr 18, 2021 10:03:03 GMT -5
I'd play more perfects if the tempo was consistent across game modes, or even consistent for an entire round. But sitting there taking 3 plus practice swings on every shot to see if there's some lag on this hole or if it's going to be the same tempo as the last hole just isn't enjoyable to me. It also makes no sense to me that shaping/spin make hitting your tempo harder. That's a bigger game flaw than the red-fasts, imo, because a power-draw is an actual golf thing but angle of attack affecting your tempo isn't. I much prefer the greater selection of shots that RF brings into the game and all the additional calculations you have to make for wind/aim/distance to dial up the right shot. I find that more rewarding than just x clicks for the wind and hope I can move a stick back and forth at the exact speed HB wants me to at this second. On the whole I think tempo is pretty consistent. If I miss tempo it’s my fault 99% of the time. I do agree if the course is laggy it can cause havoc with tempo. On plat last week I tried to fast a drive and got very slow and an OB due to lag. Karma I guess 🤣
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Post by cseanny on Apr 18, 2021 17:53:05 GMT -5
Speaking for my system (can't speak for yours!), on my refurbished original PS4 the tempo never lags, regardless of course, hole, online, or off. Tempo outcome is only on me. Verified by metronome. Whether playing for RF or perfects I find no need for a practice swing as evidenced in my video. It makes me cringe a little when I see someone taking 10 putting strokes trying to find the perfect % too. Using Avatar positions is quite simple imo. And to touch on RF vs Perfect, again, my Taylor Made World Tour scores were all shot with Perfect approaches. So that's R1 for -22, 2 rounds for -31, and -39 after 43 holes at Bethpage. In my Evangelist F9 video I demonstrate how to use "Perfects/Grey" for Drives as well. So what's my personal opinion? RF will be a HUGE advantage (seriously!) for those in all tours below Platinum. Anyone with the ability to land themselves in Platinum should already possess the skill needed to score well with perfects, especially those in the top 20. The developers have been made aware of RF and other issues PRE final launch and have decidedly told us the game is playing as intended (their literal words). I've already shown previous Twitch interactions with HB_Craig stating this. He went as far to state something to the affect "if someone can chart all that stuff out and make the adjustments, more power to them". So moving forward, if 2K has full reign over the game there might be a change for Red Fast in the future, however, if HB remains in charge of development we already know where they stand.
Either way, people purchased the game with their own $$, and if you're not failing API, enjoy the game how you see fit. After all, play the game in a manner which gives you enjoyment yes? Purist (yuck! o_^), or Arcade enthusiast (you know it baby!), go out there and have FUN.
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Post by cseanny on Apr 18, 2021 18:25:55 GMT -5
One more thing, for those doubting the effectiveness of RF, simply play PGA Career on the first tournament with High Winds, VF, VF, VF and equal the score of -23 for a single round while playing Ultra Sim Style with Perfects. Restart 10,000 times if needed. I'd be curious to see how some of the elite players would match up in total skill versus my prior video. I love theorycraft and diving into the inner workings and mechanics of every game I play, however, at the end of the day, we need to actually put it into practice, yes? Who will prevail!! Red Fast or Perfects!? For those claiming "Perfects" are better then show me!! Put up or shut-up .
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Post by nevadaballin on Apr 18, 2021 20:49:07 GMT -5
Speaking for my system (can't speak for yours!), on my refurbished original PS4 the tempo never lags, regardless of course, hole, online, or off. Tempo outcome is only on me. Verified by metronome. Whether playing for RF or perfects I find no need for a practice swing as evidenced in my video. It makes me cringe a little when I see someone taking 10 putting strokes trying to find the perfect % too. Using Avatar positions is quite simple imo. And to touch on RF vs Perfect, again, my Taylor Made World Tour scores were all shot with Perfect approaches. So that's R1 for -22, 2 rounds for -31, and -39 after 43 holes at Bethpage. In my Evangelist F9 video I demonstrate how to use "Perfects/Grey" for Drives as well. So what's my personal opinion? RF will be a HUGE advantage (seriously!) for those in all tours below Platinum. Anyone with the ability to land themselves in Platinum should already possess the skill needed to score well with perfects, especially those in the top 20. The developers have been made aware of RF and other issues PRE final launch and have decidedly told us the game is playing as intended (their literal words). I've already shown previous Twitch interactions with HB_Craig stating this. He went as far to state something to the affect "if someone can chart all that stuff out and make the adjustments, more power to them". So moving forward, if 2K has full reign over the game there might be a change for Red Fast in the future, however, if HB remains in charge of development we already know where they stand.
Either way, people purchased the game with their own $$, and if you're not failing API, enjoy the game how you see fit. After all, play the game in a manner which gives you enjoyment yes? Purist (yuck! o_^), or Arcade enthusiast (you know it baby!), go out there and have FUN.
"if someone can chart all that stuff out and make the adjustments, more power to them"...... that’s not an “as intended” response. That’s a “Hey man, nice job finding a way around our programming.” I don’t buy the “as intended” BS for one micro second lol. As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t give a damn how people play. I didn’t pay for their game. But when you join a regulated league such as TGCTours, doing anything one wants just because one paid for the game doesn’t fly. Example: The game lets me chip off the green but the league does not. I’m not even sure the API would flag a chip from the green. We all trust that the rule is followed for the spirit of the game. The only thing that keeps people honest on that is that it would show with a ghost ball and we never know who may take one of our ghost balls for a spin and report it. Unfortunately the RF isn’t as easy to police so it remains being legal cheddar. I absolutely believe if there was a way to effectively and fairly police RFs, they would be illegal. But it can’t be so we are stuck hoping the next iteration of the game doesn’t have it. Then again, if the RF is “as intended” as you believe HB has said, it will be back to n the next game too.
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Post by nevadaballin on Apr 18, 2021 20:51:30 GMT -5
One more thing, for those doubting the effectiveness of RF, simply play PGA Career on the first tournament with High Winds, VF, VF, VF and equal the score of -23 for a single round while playing Ultra Sim Style with Perfects. Restart 10,000 times if needed. I'd be curious to see how some of the elite players would match up in total skill versus my prior video. I love theorycraft and diving into the inner workings and mechanics of every game I play, however, at the end of the day, we need to actually put it into practice, yes? Who will prevail!! Red Fast or Perfects!? For those claiming "Perfects" are better then show me!! Put up or shut-up . It’s not about better bud. It’s about the spirit of the game in a league environment.
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