scottish67 Rookie Design WIP

[scottish67]

Finally got around to where I feel I can post an update on my Rookie Design course. Temporary name is either Ryland Heath or Heathbrooke. The course is a heathland style golf course and modeled after the great courses in Surrey such as Sunningdale, Walton Heath, and St. Georges Hill. I also published a Beta scottish67RDC 1.0. for anyone that wants to play and if I can ask nicely to have b101 give the course a playthrough/critique when you have time I would be most grateful.

Thanks
 
*New updated Beta scottish67RDC 3.0*

[grovey31]

This is looking sweet! Definitely right up my alley, that's for sure. You seem to be pulling off the look you want which is cool to see. The texture combinations look on point too. I will try and give your beta a run in the next couple of days and provide some feedback if you're open to it. If I can do a stream as well, I'll post it here for you.

Your Crosby Hills course looks pretty sweet too. I don't play casual rounds that often so I didn't play it when it came out. Is it on 2k21?

[scottish67]

Thanks grovey31 , not gonna lie, I did get some inspiration from Windstone, which was a beautiful course and fun to play! I did port Crosby Hills, but I don't think it plays quite the same as it did in TGC19. 

I should of mentioned in my previous post, that I did design this course with alternate tees. The green tees, are set up to give the player different angles to the fairways and par 3's. I think it actually plays a bit better, even though its a bit shorter. The blacks are actually a real championship length.

[bmckenzie69]

Just test played at 5 under, and have to say it was a fun course to play. The wind was pretty severe when I played, so I could not reach the par 5's in two. Loved the color on the planting, bunkers were well placed, and loved the "bumps and humps" in the fairways. One note is that I hit what seemed to be a great drive on 7 but was kicked into the bunker. Great course and will be tough to compete against in the Rookie Competition. Good luck!

[scottish67]

Thanks bmckenzie69 for the playthrough. I'm happy with the course, then I always think it needs improvement. Sorry about hole 7, really trying to go for a short par 4 risk/reward. what bunker did you kick into left or right. I'll play test some more on that hole.
Thanks again-

[bmckenzie69]

I landed center fairway and kicked hard left.

[Leecey]

Hey - had a quick play of this tonight so thought I'd drop a few thoughts on here.  I'm a complete novice so probably take everything I take with a pinch of salt!

Really enjoyed it.  Thought the overall feel and atmosphere of the course were great and loved the textures and the background planting.  Just about the right level of challenge for me as I played with relatively strong winds off the greens (pin set 1).  A couple of the holes were very tough playing dead into the wind - 10th for example was a beast!.  Can't remember which hole it was but I loved the drive through the tree canopy on the front 9 - might not be for everyone but I enjoyed it.

Only thing that really leapt out to me to maybe look at was the fairway bunker sculpting.  A few times they were running directly into the fairway and looked a little flat - might be the look you were going for but seemed a little out of place on a non-sandbelt.  Some might think the greens were a little tough given the sloping and the relatively small size but I thought they were playable but tough, which is probably what you were going for.

Oh, and there was a weird rough texture on the 10th around the fairway bunkers on the right.  May have been intentional but looked a little strange to my eye.

Anyway, as I said, I really enjoyed the round. 

[scottish67]

Hey @leecey, really appreciate the playthrough and comments. The look I'm going through is in the picture below. I wanted the fairways to run into the bunkers and then have a rugged, grassy, heather bunker lip/face. I know its not a standard place the bunker in the all rough, but it offers a different look. I will look at hole 10 on the right side for the weird rough.
Thanks again-

[mctrees02]

Going after Sunningdale look is admirable and I look forward to checking this out. Did you go after a Colt/Park design style as well or more of your own with those courses as surfacing and planting guidelines?

I’ve always admired Willie Park Jr’s work and have tinkered with Huntercombe look for a while but couldn’t come close to sculpting the grass hollows and mounds in a way that didn’t look visually jarring to me. This type of project will stay on the back burner until I figure that out.

[virtualgolfer65]

Played the beta tonight from the black tees on Pro settings, with assists off. I'm not a judge and just a few impressions here, so take them or leave them.

First, congrats on a really strong, fun course.

Hole 1 - drive down left along fairway/rough line and got a massive kick into the fairway. Glad for it, but it appeared it could be a major sculpting slope (look at about 285-290 off black tees. Left bunker appeared to have little sculpting and I hit second shot in to left side and it stopped, about pin high, 10 feet onto green to left side and then slowly the ball started rolling off green and into sand. Needed to hit a better shot, but I don't know if you wanted it that severe, when a stopped shot then begins to roll through fringe and into sand.

#4, big tree branch sticking out from right side of right fairway and covers half the fairway. Just my opinion, but a tree branch that covers half the fairway and blocks the approach from the middle of the fairway is a bit unfair. I've seen this done to make the game more difficult, but from the scout came it appears that the right fairway is more narrow, but offers a shorter shot into the green. Problem is the tree branch only affects shots from that right fairway. Just something to consider.

Check your bridges to ensure they're flush, as there were some that I saw that weren't. For example, #8 the little bridge in the stream to the right has one side flush with grass and the other side is up perhaps a foot or more.

The colors your planting make it really beautiful to view each hole off the tees and for approach shots.

Fairway bunkers had virtually the same orientation, namely sideways and almost always in the driver range. Also, sculpting was inconsistent on them IMO some just had edges raised, but no sculpting inside. Also, appeared to be the same or very similar brush bunkers, rather than variety of shapes, orientation, etc. Just for more aesthetic views and playability.


#16 was a beautiful par 3 and a blast to play. One of the highlights of the course! Overcooked a shot that hit left side of green and bounded over. Pitch shot and burned edge and made bogey. Still the hole a beautiful to look at and requires precision and that hole will change the leaderboard in tournaments.


Consider using fuzzy round brush to flatten some of the fairway and green edges. For example, #18 fairway looks rough and flattening edges will prevent the weird and unintended bounces you designed. #18 green has a huge ridge on right side of green and not sure you intended it to be that severe. Again, just my opinion.

You obviously put a lot of work into this and congratulations. The planting and colors are very links like. The greens were huge, but it was clear there was a reason strategy-wise for the massive greens. That said, they were very fair pin placements and breaks.

There seems to be a lot of big ridges and slopes on the edges of the fairway that resulted in bounces straight right or left. Unsure if that's intended, but for what I've seen the fuzzy brush flattening technique will soften it an yet the holes will still be tough.

Variety of bunker shapes and placement, as well as ensuring your sculpting all of them. It's easy to miss some with number of bunkers on the course.

Finally, consider trees on the edges of fairway and especially the huge tree branch covering half the fairway on #4.

A really fun round and congrats again on a strong rookie design!

[scottish67]

Thanks virtualgolfer65 for the playthrough and suggestions! The tree on 4 has been removed, the hole went through 3 design phases and it was left over from one of them, so thanks for pointing that out. I will take your other suggestions and look at them on the course and make necessary changes. Thanks again-

[grovey31]

I played a very quick round on your beta the other day. I couldn't stream it but wanted to put some notes here for you to sift through (please understand that these are just thoughts, not things I think you NEED to change. Stick to your philosophy and design ideas):

1. The overall environment and feel of the course is great. I really enjoy that vibe. Great use of textures and color choices were spot on. Nicely done.
2. Speaking of color choices, I might suggest considering playing with the bunker color. It was very stark white in contrast your other muted colors. Just seemed to pop out a bit much for me. A darker brown sand color might look a little more cohesive with the overall color palate of the environment.
3. The bunker sculpting seemed just slightly off. The lip of the bunker and edge of the actual sand seemed to stick up above the ground/rough that's on the other side. I might suggest lowering the internal edge of the bunker at the high point and then raise the exterior edge of the grass lip so it is just a tad bit above the highest point of the actual sand. Also make sure to smooth the internal sculpting of the sand. There were a few places where the bunker was more convex as opposed to concave.
4. Great greens and green sites. You have a lot of good ones here.
5. I love the way the fairways run directly into the bunkers and how the rough is on the other side. Very UK heathland style so really well done there.

You have a great course here so far and you can tell a lot of thought went into all aspects of the design. Focus on the finishing stages and the most important parts of the course at this point in the process: green contours, bunker sculpting, and tying in the overall environment

[scottish67]

grovey31 Thanks for the playthrough! I will try different sand textures to get maybe a better environment. On the bunker sculpting, I guess i'm a little confused on what you were trying to convey. I'm mean I understand, but visually I'm not getting it. I don't want to take alot of your time, can you point out a bunker on one of your courses to maybe give me an example.

Thanks!!

[grovey31]

Nov 18, 2020 12:21:04 GMT -5 scottish67 said:

grovey31 Thanks for the playthrough! I will try different sand textures to get maybe a better environment. On the bunker sculpting, I guess i'm a little confused on what you were trying to convey. I'm mean I understand, but visually I'm not getting it. I don't want to take alot of your time, can you point out a bunker on one of your courses to maybe give me an example.

Thanks!!

This might be a good picture but we'll see:


See the large bunker directly in the middle of the screenshot. You can see the light rough texture is in-between the green and the bunker. The rough texture is on the raised part of the land and is higher than the actual sand texture. It creates a grass lip or edge between the bunker and green. If I would have brought the bunker texture all the way up to the highest part of the raised land and replaced the light rough with that sand, it would create a sand lip. That wouldn't look very natural.

Not all of your bunkers had this look but I saw a few that were directly in the line of play that had this effect and threw me off. PM me if you need any more help/clarification/advice. I'm not on the forums daily but I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

[scottish67]

I'm tracking with you now, thanks so much. I thought it was all of them, but then going through the course, I can see some need work.