jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 23, 2020 16:15:17 GMT -5
Hello everyone and thank you in advance for checking out my course. Crooked Arrow is my first published course design so any and all critiques (positive or negative) would be greatly appreciated. Course Description
Nestled in the foothills of the Mazatzal mountain range, an hour northeast of Phoenix, Crooked Arrow is one of Arizona's best kept secrets. This golfing oasis features stunning mountainous vistas, lush greenery amidst sprawling desert sands, and Angel Wing Falls, the only natural dual-side waterfall which truly must be seen to be believed. Drawing inspiration from the Native Americans that once populated the area, course designer Riordan O'Regan left much of the landscape largely untouched, choosing instead to weave the course in, around, and over the foothills of the Mazatzal mountains. Each hole is named for one of the Native American tribes that originally called the area around Crooked Arrow home. Golfers looking for a challenging and enjoyable round will find plenty of both at Crooked Arrow. Playing at 7,063 yards from the tips, the front nine takes the player on a scenic tour throughout the Caballo Valley. From the first teebox you can view Angel Wing Falls in the distance and each hole brings you closer to this amazing water feature before you end the front nine atop the mountainside. The back nine proves every bit as adventurous as the front starting with a par 3 tenth featuring a startling 150' drop to an island green. Your round finishes with a par 5 playing around a mountainside lake up to a Lion's Mouth green. Wave, "Hi", and tip your cap as you finish your round in sight of the viewing decks at the rear of the immaculately landscaped clubhouse. Whether it's the striking elevation changes, demanding tee shots which offer the strategic golfer multiple shot choices, or the quintessential southwest American landscapes, Crooked Arrow is sure to provide anyone with an easy excuse to head back out for any emergency nine holes. ScorecardCourse Photos
8.5.2 8.5.2 8.5.2 8.5.2
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 23, 2020 16:16:28 GMT -5
Hole by Hole DescriptionNAVAJO
Hole #1 – Par 4 – 417 Yards
The opening hole introduces you to Crooked Arrow with a medium length, dogleg left Par 4. A generous fairway will collect most straight shots off the tee. Players attempting to cut the corner must try and avoid the left-side fairway bunker and the unforgiving desert terrain beyond. A well-placed drive leaves just a short wedge shot into a relatively flat green guarded by bunkers on both sides.
TEWA
Hole #2 – Par 4 – 482 Yards
The ideal drive hugs the left side of the fairway, avoiding the waste bunker to the right. Depending on the direction of the wind, the player may want to club down off the tee or risk driving the ball into the unmaintained rockslide area which splits the fairway. A mid-range iron second shot leads to a scorable green protected by large bunkers at the front and rear. Beware: the rockslide area is marked Out of Bounds.
CHIRICAHUA
Hole #3 – Par 3 – 247 Yards
A near hundred-foot drop makes this Par 3 play much shorter than advertised. Players will need to judge both wind speed and direction in order to safely navigate their ball to the two-tiered green while avoiding the “bear claw” bunkers to the right and left.
HAVASUPAI
Hole #4 – Par 4 – 332 Yards
The aggressive play calls for a high draw up and around the left-hand hillside while trying to hold the thin green which angles left-to-right and slopes away from the tees. More conservative players will take an easy driver or 3-wood into the fairway beyond the rock monument, leaving themselves with plenty of green to work with to place a short wedge shot close to the hole.
YUMA
Hole #5 – Par 5 – 508 Yards
This deceptively long Par 5 plays downhill to a fairway split by a waste area and back uphill to a large green bunkered on all sides. Only the longest hitters off the tees will be able to place their drive far enough into the fairway to give themselves a chance to play a high cut around the foothill and reach this green in two. Beware: the foothills to the right are marked Out of Bounds. Other players will try and hug the right side of the fairway off the tees and give themselves a workable layup to the second fairway. Catch your breath on the green and take in your first great view of Angel Wing Falls.
CHEMEHUEVI
Hole #6 – Par 4 – 369 Yards
Another tee shot that gives the player options based on the wind and aggressiveness of play, the green can be reached off the tees with only the longest and most accurately placed drives. Players going for the green in one must avoid the waste area and bunker protecting the front of the green. A more strategic drive will reach the far end of the raised fairway, giving the player a good look into the two-tiered green which slopes left-to-right. Beware: The waste area is marked by yellow stakes and must be played as a water hazard.
YAVAPAI
Hole #7 – Par 4 – 425 Yards
The signature Par 4 provides a breathtaking view of the Caballo Valley and Angel Wing Falls in the distance. An elevated tee shot may have players swinging for the fences in order to cross the river splitting the fairway and dramatically reducing the length of this hole. However, an accurate drive to the center of the fairway beyond the waste bunker will give most players the best look into the green which plays at the base of Angel Wing Falls. Beware: The area to the right of the river, beyond the waste bunker is marked Out of Bounds.
ZUNI
Hole #8 – Par 3 – 159 Yards
Playing alongside the rushing waters of Angel Wing Falls, the tee shot requires my directional accuracy in order to avoid the plant life surrounding the green to the left and the trio of bunkers protecting the green to the right. An inaccurate tee shot may leave the player with either a difficult chip out of the rough or a stroke penalty as the terrain slopes drastically away to the right and out of bounds. Fortunately, the “L” shaped green will hold most shots that land on her surface.
PAIUTE
Hole #9 – Par 5 – 534 Yards
At nearly 3,000 feet in elevation, the tees on hole 9 offer the best view down into Caballo Valley and the rest of the front nine. Driving from atop Angel Wing Falls, players must try and hug the right side of the fairway to avoid risking any shots tumbling down the mountainside. A long second shot plays up to an elevated green protected on all sides by bunkers. Any shot that reaches the green in two gives the player their best chance at an eagle putt. Be sure to grab a refreshment from the halfway house and make use of the nearby facilities before your trip back down the mountain.
PIMA
Hole #10 – Par 3 – 154 Yards
Perched atop tees extending from the mountainside, hole 10 plays 150 feet straight down onto a very generously sized island green. New players to the course may want to consider clubbing down two or even three clubs depending on wind speed and direction. Once the player is safely on the largely flat green, any two-putt for par is a great score.
HOPI
Hole #11 – Par 4 – 369 Yards
Hole 11 plays along the backside of Angel Wing Falls and challenges the player with a blind tee shot around the hills to the left into a green nestled into the mountainside. An accurate draw around the left-hand hills can attempt to hold the fairway but a more conservative 3-wood off the tee will provide the largest landing area and a good look into the left-to-right sloping green.
MARICOPA
Hole #12 – Par 4 – 455 Yards
This relatively straightforward par 4 features a pinched fairway near the landing zone just 15 yards wide. Players must navigate both the thin fairway and the fairway bunkers to leave themselves with the best look into a three-tiered green protected by a waste bunkers to the front and bunkers to the rear.
PAPAGO
Hole #13 – Par 4 – 463 Yards
Your eyes do not deceive you. The fairway down and to the left of the tees is in play for those wishing to risk it all to give themselves a level second shot into the green. However, players must be aware that the desert area surrounding the split fairway is marked Out of Bounds. The more straightforward option is to land your tee shot on the right-hand fairway where you will still have a challenging second shot down nearly 50 feet to a very scorable green.
COCOPAH
Hole #14 – Par 4 – 449 Yards
This dogleg left par 4 requires a gentle draw across the lake and into the sloping fairway between the fairway bunkers. Your second shot plays slightly downhill to a green which slopes away from the player. An accurate shot into the green gives the player a great chance at birdie on this scorable hole.
APACHE
Hole #15 – Par 5 – 569 Yards
Another par 5 offering the player choices off the tee, a straight drive towards the green must hold the elevated right side of the fairway without entering the bordering vegetation in order to give the player their best chance at reaching the green in two. Players choosing the safer left-hand fairway will have a simple but blind lay-up to a wide landing area in front of the green. Errant shots may reach the small water reservoir to the left or the inhospitable desert terrain to the right. Adventurous players may be rewarded with an eagle putt but a two-putt for par is a good result.
HALCHIDHOMA
Hole #16 – Par 4 – 338 Yards
A drivable dogleg right par 4, the postage stamp green is nestled down behind the forward hillside and offers a great risk/reward shot for those willing to take chances off the tee. In 2015, Crooked Arrow’s own designer, Riordan O’Regan, scored an albatross from the black tees during the inaugural opening round. Players not wishing to risk a bogey can play a 3 or 5-wood off the tees, leaving themselves a very good chance to still make birdie.
UTE
Hole #17 – Par 3 – 212 Yards
This straightforward Par 3 plays to a green angled to the right and away from the player, requiring a high fade in order to reach the farthest pin placements and hold the green. A great shot off the tees offers the player their best chance at taking a birdie into the challenging finishing hole.
MAHAVE
Hole #18 – Par 5 – 581 Yards
Nestled alongside a scenic pond and featuring the final rock monument dedicated to the Native American tribes that originally settled in the Caballo Valley, this lengthy par 5 bends slightly left and plays to a well-protected Lion’s Mouth green. Players will try and land their drive on the right of the wide fairway giving themselves an elevated look into the green. The fairway slopes right-to left towards the water so players attempting to shorten the hole must avoid rolling their drive into the hazard. Depending on wind and pin placement, the green is reachable in two with a heroic second shot that can attempt to run up the sloped fairway and onto the green. Pins protected by the deep greenside bunker may require a well-placed lay-up to give the player their best shot at landing their third shot close. Try not to be intimidated by the onlookers sitting at the clubhouse viewing decks as you line up your (hopefully) final putt of the day.
8.5.2
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 23, 2020 16:23:13 GMT -5
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Oct 23, 2020 17:10:46 GMT -5
I'm a sucker for a good write up. Firing this up tonight.
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Post by coruler2 on Oct 23, 2020 17:28:30 GMT -5
Nice presentation, especially like the scorecard. Looks like a winner, and way too good for a first publish. Will play soon
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 18:05:35 GMT -5
Really like the preview shots and write. Well done! For a first time publisher, this looks great. Gonna give it a round soon for sure!
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 23, 2020 18:46:28 GMT -5
Nice presentation, especially like the scorecard. Looks like a winner, and way too good for a first publish. Will play soon Although it is my first published course, I have plenty of half-done and abandoned projects that I went through before buckling down and finishing this one. Fortunately I was able to learn a lot along the way that I hope shows through.
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 23, 2020 18:47:02 GMT -5
Really like the preview shots and write. Well done! For a first time publisher, this looks great. Gonna give it a round soon for sure! Thank you very much. Hope you score well and enjoy!
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Post by TeeeJ9798 on Oct 23, 2020 18:49:28 GMT -5
Yumm
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Post by weirsy2003 on Oct 23, 2020 19:51:20 GMT -5
For a 1st publish it's very clear you've been practicing a lot! Excellent job with the writeup and pics as there's no better way to bring people in to actually play your creation. It pulled me in that's for sure. While I'm usually not a fan of massive elevation changes on holes it works well on this course with the possible exception of Hole 10. It's a cool hole but too bad you can't see the green off the tee. 1 extremely downhill Par 3 is enough for my personal taste and I quite like how you did #3. Some standout holes for me in particular were 12 and 18 and the waterfall with the path running under it on 8 was a very cool idea. Cart paths can sometimes hurt the look of a course but loved the red brick as it really pulled the course together giving a sense of realism with the severe topography of the course. Nice job and you've inspired me to keep practicing in the designer! One day I'll actually publish something...
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 23, 2020 20:30:29 GMT -5
For a 1st publish it's very clear you've been practicing a lot! Excellent job with the writeup and pics as there's no better way to bring people in to actually play your creation. It pulled me in that's for sure. While I'm usually not a fan of massive elevation changes on holes it works well on this course with the possible exception of Hole 10. It's a cool hole but too bad you can't see the green off the tee. 1 extremely downhill Par 3 is enough for my personal taste and I quite like how you did #3. Some standout holes for me in particular were 12 and 18 and the waterfall with the path running under it on 8 was a very cool idea. Cart paths can sometimes hurt the look of a course but loved the red brick as it really pulled the course together giving a sense of realism with the severe topography of the course. Nice job and you've inspired me to keep practicing in the designer! One day I'll actually publish something... Thanks a lot for giving it a play and sharing your opinions. Some of the elevation changes certainly aren't realistic to what might be played on a real course and all of the carts on this course better be gas powered because I'm sure any electrics would run out of juice trying to climb the mountain from hole 7 to 9. I toyed a lot with hole 10. I really wanted a hole to play off the side of the mountain and if you're on PC and can do a fly-around of the course, you can see up and behind the #10 tees are the original spots still flattened out where I was going to have a drop of over 200 feet. However, after testing, that drop and length was just too much to really dial in the club you needed, especially on a first play-through. I also move the tees to their final location in an attempt to get a visual on the island. I could have moved the green farther back into the lake but again, that would have added distance that might have made the hole unplayable. In the end I compromised with myself and kept the green where it was with the forward tees, even at the loss of seeing the green from the tee box. I think if this were a hole in real life, you could actually see the green from the angle you'd be at but from the default camera view in game, you cannot. As far as the strategy goes on hole 10, I hoped that hole 3 would give the player a sort of introduction into choosing their clubs based on drop distance so that not every first timer end up in the water. You're right though, too many drastic elevation changes can become gimmicky and turn some players off if overused. I hope the two par threes with the most dramatic changes aren't enough to cause too many groans and I hope the elevation changes throughout the rest of the course feel natural to the terrain being played. I did struggle a lot with the cart paths. I thought about scrapping the idea but I couldn't get past having a golf course play up and over a mountain and expecting the little virtual golfers to hike up the mountainside. I spent a long time making sure the angles of the paths weren't too drastic and didn't destroy any realism. That's why there's a lot of switchbacks you'll see up and down the sides of the mountains. I wasn't able to get them totally smooth in all areas but I think that at some point, the terrain texture underneath the path, especially in a desert course, kind of shows through and puts shadows in places on the paths where they might not be in real life. I had hoped the brick texture would not only tie into the overall theme, but help hide some imperfections. I do pity the poor construction workers who had to lay all those bricks though. 8.5.2
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 12:44:06 GMT -5
We played this on stream last night and had a great time. It's definitely more of a fantasy type design, but there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'll look forward to additional courses from you in the future because you've got great ideas and creativity, and I appreciate the time you put into the design and the forum post to present the course. A+
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jayraygun
Weekend Golfer
Don't worry, that unintentional blindness was intentional.
Posts: 137
TGCT Name: JayRayGun
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by jayraygun on Oct 24, 2020 18:48:49 GMT -5
We played this on stream last night and had a great time. It's definitely more of a fantasy type design, but there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'll look forward to additional courses from you in the future because you've got great ideas and creativity, and I appreciate the time you put into the design and the forum post to present the course. A+ Oh wow, thank you very much. That means a lot that you would take a chance like that. It is very much a fantasy design with the elevation changes, sometimes awkward tee shots, and a waterfall in the middle of the desert so I'm probably guilty of trying to cram all of my ideas into one course. By the way, after a few people other than myself played the course, I did go back and I created a "Tour" version. The only difference between Crooked Arrow and Crooked Arrow (Tour) besides crowds and seating is Crooked Arrow (Tour) features a reworked Hole 10. It's gone from a 155 yard, 150' drop where you can't see the green from the tees, to a 137 yard, 72' drop and you can see the green from all tees. I've played it a few times and I think it works so much better that I'm sad I didn't do it on the original Crooked Arrow. Oh well, I'm sure all designers have some regrets. Anyway, thank you again. I look forward to creating more courses that can be enjoyed by others. 8.5.2
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2020 19:23:32 GMT -5
^^ Absolutely true, we all have things on our courses we would change or rework, I think that's part of being able to learn as we go. It's awesome to hear you say that because typically first-course designers that make something as good as Crooked Arrow aren't willing to take constructive comments. There was SO much more good on this design than "bad", and I put that in quotes because nothing was really bad at all. I apologize that I don't save my VODs, but I would anticipate giving your Tour version a try with the guys, so hit me with a follow on Twitch and Twitter so we can hopefully have you there in the chat.
Keep going!
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Oct 29, 2020 21:24:55 GMT -5
Really enjoyed the round here, Excellent planting & great, natural looking sculpting. I would have liked a few more wide spots for misses on Masters diff, but any other beefs are really 'personal preference' in course styling. I imagine thone retaining walls on the cliff face were a chore !
Thanks for the creation, mine are certainly no match in detail (by the time I have 30 hours invested, I'm ready for the next project), but have some good golf holes, should you try one. See you on the fairways !
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