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Post by tpetro on Oct 13, 2020 9:15:04 GMT -5
There's a bunkerless Redan/Biarritz combo at my home course. Water short and left. 1901 Tom Bendelow. Ridiculously fun to play with the ground game. What course is that! I would love to give it a look online. Quogue Field Club
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Post by cd06 on Oct 27, 2020 2:17:50 GMT -5
I really like this little thread. I didn't see if anyone posted this but I believe the origin of the term comes from the course at Biarritz Le Phare, which is near Bayonne in South West France. I only found this out recently. I might find a picture possibly. I agree with *b101* though, it does seem a bit out there.
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Post by cd06 on Oct 27, 2020 2:21:31 GMT -5
I really like this little thread. I didn't see if anyone posted this but I believe the origin of the term comes from the course at Biarritz Le Phare, which is near Bayonne in South West France. I only found this out recently. I agree with "b101" though, it does seem a bit out there. UPDATE: the original was lost in one of the World Wars (I dont have a good short term memory) but the club have a plan to restore it.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Oct 27, 2020 8:09:06 GMT -5
I really like this little thread. I didn't see if anyone posted this but I believe the origin of the term comes from the course at Biarritz Le Phare, which is near Bayonne in South West France. I only found this out recently. I agree with "b101" though, it does seem a bit out there. UPDATE: the original was lost in one of the World Wars (I dont have a good short term memory) but the club have a plan to restore it. It was demolished at the end of World War II. Since no "original" exists, and there was no actual record of CB Macdonald spending time in South West France, people think that this was one of the few if any templates that either CB created, or he learned from conversation with others. I believe Willie Dunn Jr created the original routing, probably around the turn of the century, when Macdonald must have already been in the states crafting NGLA. All of this leads me to think that it is okay to stray further from the "original" when building modern Biarritz holes. Especially because I think Biarritz is one of the least loved templates, not to say that it is fun on occasion, but it does get repetitive, but that is a conversation for another day
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Post by cd06 on Oct 27, 2020 15:52:34 GMT -5
UPDATE: the original was lost in one of the World Wars (I dont have a good short term memory) but the club have a plan to restore it. It was demolished at the end of World War II. Since no "original" exists, and there was no actual record of CB Macdonald spending time in South West France, people think that this was one of the few if any templates that either CB created, or he learned from conversation with others. I believe Willie Dunn Jr created the original routing, probably around the turn of the century, when Macdonald must have already been in the states crafting NGLA. All of this leads me to think that it is okay to stray further from the "original" when building modern Biarritz holes. Especially because I think Biarritz is one of the least loved templates, not to say that it is fun on occasion, but it does get repetitive, but that is a conversation for another day I love these architecture threads. I actually learn from them!
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Post by mctrees02 on Oct 30, 2020 9:07:27 GMT -5
For me, the traditional Biarritz is a great visual hole but one that lacks interest if playing it over and over. Unless you’re playing in really strange weather conditions, the challenge is almost always to run a long iron through the swale to a back flag.
That being said, I do think it has its place in modern design and love the idea of using it on short fours and reachable fives. I also love how C&C used it on the 5th at Bandon Trails. Here’s a wedge to a 40yard deep green with a giant swale in the middle; make sure you end up on the right tier. Even when you do, you’re likely facing a severely breaking putt that makes par well earned.
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Post by tpetro on Oct 30, 2020 10:11:34 GMT -5
Streamsong Red 16 is another solid modern one - plays over water to a green high up in the dunes and shortened a good 30-40 yards from the traditional length. Also, unlike traditional ones, the swale feeds balls off the green (which I think is a better use of it). You can also bank the ball off a large slope to the right
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Post by mctrees02 on Oct 30, 2020 12:20:00 GMT -5
For me, streamsong 16 gets close to the line of "is it a biarritz" or a is it a golf hole with a swale in the middle of the green? It punishes the ground game for many shots that fly into the green by sending them away and it prefers the player to hit a mid iron into the front right or even the dune to get close to a front or middle pin. For back pins, you don't play through the swale unless you're in high winds but instead try to fly a ball all the way back there.
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