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Post by supergolfdude on Oct 6, 2020 10:07:05 GMT -5
Does the green of a Biarritz Par 3 have to be straight on from the tee, making the dip in the green in the middle, or can the green be angled slightly from the tee?
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Post by sroel908 on Oct 6, 2020 10:51:43 GMT -5
While I am not really an expert on the Golden Age golf architecture, from the examples of Biarritz greens shown here, they all seem to be pretty straight on: thefriedegg.com/biarritz-template-hole/
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Post by tpetro on Oct 6, 2020 11:05:42 GMT -5
Templates aren't supposed to be rigid concepts, especially in modern times. The point is to use the basic strategic concepts they provide creatively. Think a course like Ol' Rocky Top that had several templates that had creative difference and were well disguised. Templates are supposed to be strategic ideas that you blend in with your course. If you have a wide, bold course with funky bunker shapes, you wouldn't put a rectangular biarritz with rectangular bunkers in, would you? Just because most Biarritz's are straight on doesn't mean yours has to be.
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Post by joegolferg on Oct 6, 2020 11:35:35 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be dead straight and even the OG architects didn't always build them that way. The Biarritz at the Creek Club for instance (MacDonald/Raynor design) has an Island Biarritz that is angled off to the right. If the men who pioneered the design did things like that then It's obvious you may interpret it however you want as long as it has the swale involved.
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Post by supergolfdude on Oct 6, 2020 12:37:56 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I'll keep my Biarritz green slightly angled as I have it on my next course.
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Post by mattf27 on Oct 6, 2020 13:39:49 GMT -5
Yeah, you're absolutely allowed to do different takes on a Biarritz if you want, if you ask me, they tend to be more fun than the "traditional" ones. Drivable par 4s make some good opportunities for a Biarritz green. Also, #3 at Katagawa is a little spin on a Biarritz as well. Green isn't totally rectangular, at an angle, with fancier bunker shapes to fit the rest of the course.
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Post by jwfickett on Oct 7, 2020 8:42:25 GMT -5
8 at Sweetens Cove is a 45 degree angled biarritz green with a 6 foot swale in the middle. At my Golden Isles course, I stole that green for a par 5 and made it fully perpendicular to the fairway. As has been said above...the most memorable templates are the ones that you recognize but with a different spin.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Oct 8, 2020 7:49:39 GMT -5
Check out the 8th at Evangelist, we played it just last week in Q school! That is a great Biarritz and the best video game version I have seen. The green is angled probably 25 degrees and depending on what tee you are playing, it plays as much as hitting a driver! I bet it would be a sweet driveable par 4 if it was made another 20 yards longer and the water was more in play.
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Post by b101 on Oct 8, 2020 11:52:34 GMT -5
Opened the thread just to say one word.
Don't.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Oct 8, 2020 18:29:38 GMT -5
Opened the thread just to say one word. Don't. 🖕
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Oct 12, 2020 17:55:28 GMT -5
8 at Sweetens Cove is a 45 degree angled biarritz green with a 6 foot swale in the middle. At my Golden Isles course, I stole that green for a par 5 and made it fully perpendicular to the fairway. As has been said above...the most memorable templates are the ones that you recognize but with a different spin. Wanted to comment/ask about this because I remember the hole and commented on it in your course thread. But having a chance to play it again, with the biarritz green running perpendicular to the approach shot, isn't it essentially a double plateau? If you don't play across the swale head on or at an angle doesn't that change the strategy and purpose?
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Post by ErixonStone on Oct 12, 2020 19:42:28 GMT -5
with the biarritz green running perpendicular to the approach shot, isn't it essentially a double plateau? If you don't play across the swale head on or at an angle doesn't that change the strategy and purpose? It's actually most like the Maiden template which usually has the back-left and back-right portions of the green on separate plateaus. A traditional double-plateau green is L-shaped where the front-left and back-right are in raised plateaus and front-right is a lower tier (there is no back-left portion of the green). But you're right; a traditional biarritz is meant to be played through the swale with all the pins placed on the back portion of the green (some close to the swale, some far behind it). The only reason the swale and the front portion are cut as greens is to allow approaches to run through them and onto the back portion. But, traditions are meant for breaking.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Oct 13, 2020 7:53:40 GMT -5
with the biarritz green running perpendicular to the approach shot, isn't it essentially a double plateau? If you don't play across the swale head on or at an angle doesn't that change the strategy and purpose? It's actually most like the Maiden template which usually has the back-left and back-right portions of the green on separate plateaus. A traditional double-plateau green is L-shaped where the front-left and back-right are in raised plateaus and front-right is a lower tier (there is no back-left portion of the green). But you're right; a traditional biarritz is meant to be played through the swale with all the pins placed on the back portion of the green (some close to the swale, some far behind it). The only reason the swale and the front portion are cut as greens is to allow approaches to run through them and onto the back portion. But, traditions are meant for breaking. What about a Redan-style biarritz? Then it doesn't have to be perpendicular to the angle of attack
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Post by tpetro on Oct 13, 2020 8:25:08 GMT -5
It's actually most like the Maiden template which usually has the back-left and back-right portions of the green on separate plateaus. A traditional double-plateau green is L-shaped where the front-left and back-right are in raised plateaus and front-right is a lower tier (there is no back-left portion of the green). But you're right; a traditional biarritz is meant to be played through the swale with all the pins placed on the back portion of the green (some close to the swale, some far behind it). The only reason the swale and the front portion are cut as greens is to allow approaches to run through them and onto the back portion. But, traditions are meant for breaking. What about a Redan-style biarritz? Then it doesn't have to be perpendicular to the angle of attack There's a bunkerless Redan/Biarritz combo at my home course. Water short and left. 1901 Tom Bendelow. Ridiculously fun to play with the ground game.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Oct 13, 2020 9:14:28 GMT -5
What about a Redan-style biarritz? Then it doesn't have to be perpendicular to the angle of attack There's a bunkerless Redan/Biarritz combo at my home course. Water short and left. 1901 Tom Bendelow. Ridiculously fun to play with the ground game. What course is that! I would love to give it a look online. EDIT - found it online very quickly to be honest!
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