Theopen
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
TGCT Name: Brian Ayers
Tour: Beer League
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Post by Theopen on Aug 25, 2020 15:30:06 GMT -5
I think I played 8 rounds in the TGCTours Pro tours and don't think I saw more than 2 or 3 "perfect". So, I went to the range to get actual numbers.
Pro-Am: 13 swings ... ALL perfect
Pro: 15 swings ... 9 fast, 5 perfect, 1 slow (which puts perfect at 50%) ... but it's worth noting that the Fast tempos were all manageable (meaning, the ball didn't go too far off course)
Masters: 100 swings ... 35 fast, 64 slow, and ONE perfect. (50 swings before calibration, 50 swings after - and the only perfect I had came before calibration). The fasts/slows were all over the place, too.
So, I have no doubt something is broken with mouse on Masters. I've always been very consistent with both my swing line and tempo (feel free to browse my YT videos - linked in my signature). You'd think I'd be able to accidentally hit the sweet spot and have more than 1% perfects. That's simply absurd.
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Post by bahnzo on Aug 25, 2020 16:01:14 GMT -5
One thing I would look at for mouse users, is do you have what's called either "enhance pointer precision" or in my case "mouse acceleration" on? Because either or seemingly mess up your shots because the mouse travels faster when you move it faster. I turned mine off for the game and it may have helped things a little.
I still think there's something else happening here tho. IMO, this game was calibrated for game controller users and a mouse swing is a different beast. We don't tend to move the mouse has fast as you do a stick, and it's a longer travel as well. I think the downswing window needs to be opened up wider to allow mouse users to calibrate a slower swing.
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Theopen
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
TGCT Name: Brian Ayers
Tour: Beer League
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Post by Theopen on Aug 25, 2020 16:15:23 GMT -5
Well, I did have "enhanced precision" turned on ... so I turned it off and tested again, and sadly it made things a whole lot worse Probably because I'm used to having it turned on (1400 hours and 2600 rounds of it in TGC2019). I wish it was something as simple as that, I really do. The developers are unlikely to fix anything without hard data that they can use to reproduce the problems we're having (just speaking from experience as developer myself). Now, the only optimism I can really have at this point is that it's only been a few days ... hopefully they're gathering data and will make adjustments ... but, given what Ron (brighttail) said, it's not something I should hold my breath for any time soon. ps. Bonham rocks!
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Post by chilihotkey on Aug 25, 2020 16:44:37 GMT -5
So after about 25 rounds or so, i have yet to see a SINGLE perfect out on the course, maybe 1-2 on the range. (gave up on 2019 after 2 weeks last time, after mouse (imo) being completely broken at that game, at least in the beginning) and really wanted to get back into TGCT again after 900h in tgc 2.
To me it seem that one problem with the mouse might be that you not only have to move the mouse in the "correct" tempo, but it also seem like you have to move the mouse the correct "distance" back and forward. the reason i say this is because when i tried to really exaggerate the forward motion, i could move the mouse at almost half speed and still make a fast swing(very slow if i tried same speed but shorter motion) this is not as thoroughly tested as others have already done here, but found that interesting,ofc might just be my imagination. on the verge of giving up again and hoping for a patch i decided to bite the bullet and plug in a controller, for the first time in TGC. first 5 shots with a controller... 3 perfects lol (no calibration yet) now obviously im having some trouble with the swing plane for now, but yea, there seems to be quite a difference in timing. ofc it might just be a fluke but 3/5 vs 0/700 or so looks like more than a coincident
edit after about an hour with an controller(XB) im at about 50-60% perfect on the range, about 25% over 36 holes
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Post by Brighttail on Aug 25, 2020 18:07:27 GMT -5
In 2019 the mouse swing was broken to begin with. It took a lot of effort and 'harassing' the devs for them to look into it further to find that indeed there was something wrong, fixed about 2 months after launch.
Having played a tonne in the last two days and it has been hit and miss on Masters. I can get the perfects from time to time and shots that just miss but are good enough to work out.
I'm finding that I'm better being able to identify when I hit a slow or a fast and feel that indeed I did do what the game is telling me. Swing plane can be helped with DPI, somewhere between 1100-1500 is what I'm finding the best without being too straight that the API would tag me.
As in the past games, the tempo is everything. On the good side, we only have to deal with one tempo instead of two. On the bad side, I do think they purposely amped up the difficulty with Master clubs. In talking with some other very good mouse users, they are only at about 20=25% max of perfect shots. If that rate is common across the board, I'm good with that. In other words, if it is as tough for the other platforms, it is fair and we all have to deal with it. There will always be the few outliers that hit 70% for some reason but I'm waiting on the data coming in from SmilingGoats. This is why it is important for everyone to play the TGC exhibition tour events so he can collect that data.
If in a few weeks he sees a HUGE discrepancy in his data, he can take that to HB. As for the haptic feedback. Some golfers are using it as an aid and that sux for us, while others feel it is not helpful at all. Remember we do have an advantage with our ability to dial in our DPI, something that controllers can't do.
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Theopen
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 143
TGCT Name: Brian Ayers
Tour: Beer League
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Post by Theopen on Aug 25, 2020 18:19:57 GMT -5
I have a question for the group in regards to putting ...
When you have the distance control turned on, there's a white area you're meant to hit on the power bar. If you pull back slowly on the mouse, does it stop automatically for anyone else?
If so, does the same thing happen when you have distance control turned completely off (no percentage or anything)?
It does for me. With the bar on, I can see that it occasionally stops like a millimetre before the white part on the bar. With the bar off, it seems to stop much sooner. Where, if I'm hitting a 20 foot putt, it literally stops dead 10 ft. before the hole. If you're like 1-2% after the white bar, the ball goes 20-50ft. past the hole. I don't know how to stop it from doing that without pulling back faster on the mouse, which just ends up launching the ball off the green.
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Post by bahnzo on Aug 25, 2020 18:47:03 GMT -5
I do think we are maybe focusing a little too much on "perfect" swings when IMO the real issue here is consistency. I might not have a lot of perfect swings, but I'm ok with that as long as my tempo is consistently around that perfect wedge. The problem is a swing you've done over and over and getting a poor fast/slow and there is seemingly no reason for that. One thing I want to press the devs on is opening up the calibration window to allow for a wider range of downswing speeds. It's much too narrow and a slower mouse swing will not calibrate. I also think there is too much punishment being given for a swing that misses, again the window seems to be too narrow. Theopen: I haven't experienced what you mentioned, but I've only tried putting a few times with the bar off. I haven't noticed that missing the sweet spot causes it to be that far off...it's not a pitch shot after all!
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Post by bahnzo on Aug 25, 2020 18:50:29 GMT -5
Well, I did have "enhanced precision" turned on ... so I turned it off and tested again, and sadly it made things a whole lot worse Probably because I'm used to having it turned on (1400 hours and 2600 rounds of it in TGC2019). I wish it was something as simple as that, I really do. The developers are unlikely to fix anything without hard data that they can use to reproduce the problems we're having (just speaking from experience as developer myself). Now, the only optimism I can really have at this point is that it's only been a few days ... hopefully they're gathering data and will make adjustments ... but, given what Ron (brighttail) said, it's not something I should hold my breath for any time soon. ps. Bonham rocks! It might take you some time to adjust to turning that off. I didn't like the result when I first did it, but I've recalibrated and worked on it a bit and it's improved I think. Although I'll also admit I'm just improving slowly from playing as well I believe. And Bonham does rock. I'm not a drummer, but in recent years I've come to appreciate just how good he was.
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Post by hawkeye1942 on Aug 25, 2020 19:01:36 GMT -5
Ok, so I have been able to start shooting under par somewhat regularly. However, that is with intentionally producing fast tempo. I find this game utterly unplayable otherwise. But, by forcing a fast swing, I can at least account for that.
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Post by chilihotkey on Aug 25, 2020 19:02:10 GMT -5
I have a question for the group in regards to putting ... When you have the distance control turned on, there's a white area you're meant to hit on the power bar. If you pull back slowly on the mouse, does it stop automatically for anyone else? If so, does the same thing happen when you have distance control turned completely off (no percentage or anything)? It does for me. With the bar on, I can see that it occasionally stops like a millimetre before the white part on the bar. With the bar off, it seems to stop much sooner. Where, if I'm hitting a 20 foot putt, it literally stops dead 10 ft. before the hole. If you're like 1-2% after the white bar, the ball goes 20-50ft. past the hole. I don't know how to stop it from doing that without pulling back faster on the mouse, which just ends up launching the ball off the green. i think that is the same option that make you not able to overswing on full shots. cant remember exactly what the setting is called, distance control or something like that
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Post by YouStayClassySanDiego on Aug 26, 2020 1:03:35 GMT -5
I'd say this would be pertinent: So, I did more testing on the tempo issues. I'm not going to bother to cross post it here other than to mention it any anyone interested can check my post in this thread: tgctours.proboards.com/thread/24258/crazy-swing-tempo-consistencyTLDR - A perfect swing without calibration, is pretty all over the place. Once calibrated, it's pretty consistent, but does see about 20% random misses.
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Post by Art Vandelay on Aug 26, 2020 16:13:11 GMT -5
In 2019 the mouse swing was broken to begin with. It took a lot of effort and 'harassing' the devs for them to look into it further to find that indeed there was something wrong, fixed about 2 months after launch. Having played a tonne in the last two days and it has been hit and miss on Masters. I can get the perfects from time to time and shots that just miss but are good enough to work out. I'm finding that I'm better being able to identify when I hit a slow or a fast and feel that indeed I did do what the game is telling me. Swing plane can be helped with DPI, somewhere between 1100-1500 is what I'm finding the best without being too straight that the API would tag me. As in the past games, the tempo is everything. On the good side, we only have to deal with one tempo instead of two. On the bad side, I do think they purposely amped up the difficulty with Master clubs. In talking with some other very good mouse users, they are only at about 20=25% max of perfect shots. If that rate is common across the board, I'm good with that. In other words, if it is as tough for the other platforms, it is fair and we all have to deal with it. There will always be the few outliers that hit 70% for some reason but I'm waiting on the data coming in from SmilingGoats. This is why it is important for everyone to play the TGC exhibition tour events so he can collect that data. If in a few weeks he sees a HUGE discrepancy in his data, he can take that to HB. As for the haptic feedback. Some golfers are using it as an aid and that sux for us, while others feel it is not helpful at all. Remember we do have an advantage with our ability to dial in our DPI, something that controllers can't do. Ron, when talk about your DPI settings you use one number. So you do not use the X and Y settings for DPI?
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Post by Brighttail on Aug 26, 2020 19:20:16 GMT -5
Ron, when talk about your DPI settings you use one number. So you do not use the X and Y settings for DPI? You can change both individually if you want, with X being the one that deals with the vertical, but honestly I just change the whole DPI rather than set them both separately.
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Post by bahnzo on Aug 26, 2020 23:55:08 GMT -5
Ron, when talk about your DPI settings you use one number. So you do not use the X and Y settings for DPI? You can change both individually if you want, with X being the one that deals with the vertical, but honestly I just change the whole DPI rather than set them both separately.
I think you need to be careful also, as I can imagine having the DPI on the X axis will result in having too straight of a swing and triggering the API warning.
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Post by firstblitzer on Aug 27, 2020 2:23:44 GMT -5
You can change both individually if you want, with X being the one that deals with the vertical, but honestly I just change the whole DPI rather than set them both separately.
I think you need to be careful also, as I can imagine having the DPI on the X axis will result in having too straight of a swing and triggering the API warning. Don't worry Brighttail is fully aware of just where he can adjust the x axis to, too make game easy without being officially labelled a cheat. He has years of experience with it.
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