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Post by jacobkessler on Jul 21, 2020 19:44:12 GMT -5
Kind of an odd question, but I’ve noticed that it’s common for courses to begin on par 4s or 5s, but pretty much never begin on par 3s. Obviously there are exceptions, like Royal Lytham & St. Annes, but I’ve always wondered the reasoning behind this.
Also, are there any other courses you know of that start on par 3s?
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jul 21, 2020 20:06:25 GMT -5
Hmm, my newest one is planning to, and I play 'Hancock Park' here in Austin - and it does indeed start off with a downhill Par3 across a creek (that's usually dry). however, I'm pretty sure that was not it's original order, as the course was a full 18 when it was the Austin Country Club in 1898 www.golfadvisor.com/courses/2749-hancock-golf-course
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Post by sandgroper on Jul 21, 2020 20:33:10 GMT -5
My home course starts with a par 3. But it's 210m into a southwesterly wind with a lake left and out of bounds right. So a good challenge. If you can walk off with a par or bogey it's been a good hole.
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Post by Buckets on Jul 21, 2020 20:38:46 GMT -5
Almost all related to pace of play.
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Post by b101 on Jul 22, 2020 0:39:27 GMT -5
What Buckets said. It's to do with stopping backlog on the first tee. Holes where you can get two groups on the hole at the same time are preferable to one where you have to wait for everyone to play out before another group to tee off. Same goes for driveable par fours as a result.
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jul 22, 2020 7:27:34 GMT -5
So, its not about the design, more so course administration. Solved simply by spacing out starting times and reducing total rounds played. Of course, there's a 'financial' reason IRL for filling the course with as many paying customers as possible.
Just another relatively pure art form trashed by the profit motive.
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Post by b101 on Jul 22, 2020 7:42:00 GMT -5
Not really to do with money at all - bear in mind most top course designs predate the idea of packing membership to maximise income. You don't want to be standing on the first tee waiting ten minutes for people to line up putts whilst a queue builds up behind you. I'd also argue strongly that routing itself is an art and that these considerations (flow of holes etc) contribute to that hugely.
Also, having played Lytham, there's something to be said for having the norm not be to start your round with a 4 iron in hand hitting to a relatively small green surrounded by bunkers. It's certainly a challenge and great for the Open rota, but there's a good reason not that many courses do it.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jul 22, 2020 8:04:39 GMT -5
I think this habits comes from the general custom of not only to avoid par 3s but, generally speaking, to start a course with an easy hole, i assume to help players to find some rythm before to play more difficult holes. Is not a case if a lot of courses starts with a par 4 that requires a wedge for the approach. I suppose is more some kind of "etiquette" than a real unwritten rule. So said, looking at the question from a different point of view, personally, i generally avoid to project courses that starts with a par 3 or a par 5 hole only because this would force me to use a certain number of consecutive par 4 holes on the scorecard..and i prefer to alternate holes the most is possible. But is just a personal preference..nothing more For the same principle (but with a quite different, if not opposite, motivation) there is also the custom to avoid par 3s as 18th hole, especially in the courses made for tournaments, mainly to offer final holes with some risk&reward, to increase the pathos.
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Post by joegolferg on Jul 22, 2020 8:09:06 GMT -5
The main reason has been mentioned above but I personally know three courses near to where I live that have par three opening holes, although, they are all 160yds or shorter and quite inviting to ensure play is as smooth as can be. Nothing against the idea myself.
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jul 22, 2020 8:11:22 GMT -5
Possibly, b101.
But you accept as a given that there are enough players scheduled to form a queue. Make tee times 20 minutes apart, limit the total rounds - that sounds like enough time for any hole to be played. Other than making money, why would 'more players' digging divot & leaving ball marks and trash be a good thing for my course ? Seriously.
As for 'routing flow', subjective for sure. In the 70s plenty of musicians put in dance' feel to their songs. Didn't make them any better. "I Was Made for Loving You" ring a bell ?
Always fun to joust our varying views, b101 !
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jul 22, 2020 8:13:55 GMT -5
Ezzino, Par 3s are my easiest holes in real life. I don't have the length to keep up with low handicappers on holes over 400 yards, but I can reach any sub-200 par 3 as well as they can. Usually good for at least one birdie a round on them, even with my maxed out handicap.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Jul 22, 2020 9:26:15 GMT -5
Pacific Grove - one of the most played public courses in Northern California - starts off with back to back par 3s, then back to back par 4s, then back to back par 5s. It says on their website the original 1st hole was a par 5 but had to be rerouted due to moving the clubhouse, and these days it is the only way to fit the inland front 9 in, before shoving the players out onto the edge of the world for one of the best back 9s in the area.
I have heard people complain about starting with 2 par 3s in a row, but in this instance it really adds to the fun and the aura of this little public gem on the tip of the Monterey Peninsula. I personally don't usually like the idea of par 3s to start the round, because like Ben said - it grinds the first tee to a halt, but this course somehow manages it well.
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Post by lessthanbread on Jul 22, 2020 10:00:57 GMT -5
I personally do not have a problem with opening par 3's as I actually like playing them more than 4s and 5s because usually I'm better at them, and who does't like starting off a round with confidence? However, if it causes a backup, then that's no fun. But I will also say in a general sense, it's just a great thing to be on the golf course vs doing many other things so even if play is slow, I try to enjoy being out there at all
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Post by b101 on Jul 22, 2020 10:15:28 GMT -5
The other benefit to starting with a non-par three is that you give the golfer the choice as to what they feel comfortable hitting for their opening shot. Par threes prescribe what you have to do, whereas a four or five gives you options. Slicing your driver? Lay back. Not comfortable hitting three wood - have at driver. Wide fairways are also more amenable than tiny greens often with lots of hazards (par threes are almost always the mostly fiercely guarded greens on the course as nobody is hitting into them from rough).
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Jul 22, 2020 10:30:33 GMT -5
What if I'm most comfortable hitting a nice 5-iron, just like I might when starting my day at the range ? If the opener is a 550yd par5, with a 220 yd carry to fairway, then all but 2 clubs are 'taken away'.
I know, I'm a bit of a freak, lol.
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