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Post by Dave on Jun 21, 2020 13:25:45 GMT -5
To clarify the last point, there are so many good RCR's in the game now there won't be many tournaments that we can't play the actual courses hosting the IRL event. It shouldn't be difficult to check the weather forecast in the area of these courses at the time of the event and set the conditions to suit? IMO most Parkland courses have a mix and match theme of fairly soft/moderate terrain and medium fast/fast/very fast greens, and links/heathland/desert courses are generally hard/fast and often windy. If it's rained or been raining in the area recently then soften it up a little, if it hasn't rained for a while, speed it up a bit?
Scoring will never be realistic on a computer game without making it unplayable and unejoyable, Id personally like to come off the 72nd hole thinking more about how much I enjoyed the course than how stupid the greens are or how windy it was every single day.
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Post by hippystein on Jun 21, 2020 15:56:57 GMT -5
Boring set ups yet again dave. Id probably get more enjoyment from putting wasps in my arse!
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Post by donkeypuncherben on Jun 21, 2020 23:38:40 GMT -5
Going back to Honda classic or players championship we have been close to 50/50 rcr vs. custom courses. To me that seems about right.
Also I really like Tyler’s approach of keeping default green speeds but changing firmness.
Really don’t want to go back to one round 163 one round default and two rounds 187.
I enjoy the high winds or vh winds because it enables multiple shot making options on the approaches but I understand that is not a popular thing.
The course for Canadian Open was tricked up and the greens didn’t roll true there but otherwise I think Tyler has been a big improvement. Anyway I am just one guy what makes me happy will not make everyone else happy
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Post by catcherman22 on Jun 22, 2020 0:14:04 GMT -5
To clarify the last point, there are so many good RCR's in the game now there won't be many tournaments that we can't play the actual courses hosting the IRL event. It shouldn't be difficult to check the weather forecast in the area of these courses at the time of the event and set the conditions to suit? IMO most Parkland courses have a mix and match theme of fairly soft/moderate terrain and medium fast/fast/very fast greens, and links/heathland/desert courses are generally hard/fast and often windy. If it's rained or been raining in the area recently then soften it up a little, if it hasn't rained for a while, speed it up a bit? Scoring will never be realistic on a computer game without making it unplayable and unejoyable, Id personally like to come off the 72nd hole thinking more about how much I enjoyed the course than how stupid the greens are or how windy it was every single day. Only problem with using real time weather (we tried it on Euro in season 4) is that these tournaments are suppose to be calendared a month in advance...
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Post by Dave on Jun 22, 2020 2:08:35 GMT -5
Boring set ups yet again dave. Id probably get more enjoyment from putting wasps in my arse! 🖕😂
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Post by rob4590 on Jun 22, 2020 2:10:40 GMT -5
Hard / tricked up courses all the time - well we know from experience just how enjoyable this is.........NOT
RCR's - generally fairly bland / easy for computer golf - especially at PGA level. Will 95% of the time be played on TST that week too if the course is half decent (and that has always been the case) - so playing two events on the same track each week = boring (as stated several times recently by players during the weeks when that has happened) A significant % of decent tour RCR's are LiDar - which causes loading / lagging issues for XB players to a degree as well.
We need some variation in conditions - default all the time is boring.
Trying to set 'real life' conditions is even worse - oh look it's a Low SW wind in R1 - and in R2. Lucky us - it's changed at the weekend - massively to Low South in R3 and Medium SW in R4. Variety is good - try and make us have to think - at least a little. Applies to both ground conditions, and wind (speed and direction)
So only leaves your 3rd option as viable - and then that still depends on your definition of 'easy' - really don't think having -30 as the cut mark will be at all fun either....
Sorry if this comes across as negative - it's just being honest. So set the courses up with variety, make them fun (which still does include 1/2 rounds each week that ARE hard) And most of all - make the courses and setups FAIR to all levels (appreciate that is somewhat tricky (and subjective) however)
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Post by Dave on Jun 22, 2020 3:00:48 GMT -5
This is the problem, no one is ever going to satisfy everyone. If we want realism then we need to be playing RCR's and the scores will skyrocket. If you want difficult then people complain it's too difficult.
What's the answer? Get a scheduler that doesn't use the forum 😂
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Post by blueorfe on Jun 22, 2020 3:34:37 GMT -5
Just pick courses that are challenging, but fun to play.
Courses that have a good mix strategy and options from tee to green, some risk and reward holes and not ones where you have to hit the perfect shot on every hole. Courses where you can use the environment, as apposed to courses where you have to land your ball on a sixpence every time.
I understand that schedulers want to pick difficult courses for the top tier; but when that difficulty comes from having to hit a square yard with your approach so as not to funnel off down a slope from the crowned and tiered hole locations, that takes out 90% of the field and just gives players with unerringly straight and consistent swings a massive advantage over the rest of the field. Strategy and course management doesn't work on those type of courses, they are extremely one dimensional and they are no fun at all to play and it becomes a game of darts and chipping.
Most RCR's are pretty boring to play to be honest; there are many exceptions though that are challenging and fun to play, but the average ones are pretty bland to play and you don't have to think until you reach the green.
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Post by xvshitanvx on Jun 22, 2020 4:19:35 GMT -5
Just pick courses that are challenging, but fun to play. Courses that have a good mix strategy and options from tee to green, some risk and reward holes and not ones where you have to hit the perfect shot on every hole. Courses where you can use the environment, as apposed to courses where you have to land your ball on a sixpence every time. I understand that schedulers want to pick difficult courses for the top tier; but when that difficulty comes from having to hit a square yard with your approach so as not to funnel off down a slope from the crowned and tiered hole locations, that takes out 90% of the field and just gives players with unerringly straight and consistent swings a massive advantage over the rest of the field. Strategy and course management doesn't work on those type of courses, they are extremely one dimensional and they are no fun at all to play and it becomes a game of darts and chipping. Most RCR's are pretty boring to play to be honest; there are many exceptions though that are challenging and fun to play, but the average ones are pretty bland to play and you don't have to think until you reach the green. 100% - the few courses I played on the euro tour this year were all fun while still being challenging and required smart golf. More fun, less grind please. We all have a long list of these!
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Post by lessangster on Jun 22, 2020 4:21:49 GMT -5
Just forget about trying to make people’s scores more realistic it’s not going to happen, even TST with most of the aids turned off can’t do it.
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Post by rob4590 on Jun 22, 2020 10:58:47 GMT -5
Just forget about trying to make people’s scores more realistic it’s not going to happen, even TST with most of the aids turned off can’t do it.
I don't try to limit the scores though Les...........well maybe last week I did...but not normally
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jun 22, 2020 13:56:03 GMT -5
I think about this thing from the start, because, reading almost every week the PGA thread, is clear that is very difficult for every scheduler to choose the proper course and setup to have an enjoyable tournament every week, especially for the best Tours. And is a shame that the best Tour we have it seems to be also the less enjoyable...and by far.
First of all, i agree that often, very often, real courses plays too easy on the Tour with the actual setup, but i easily understand how much annoying can be to play these courses constantly cranking up conditions to have low scores. I think this thing could be (partially, at least) solved if, in the next game, it would be possible to not use anymore the scout cam (now is not possible to implement this thing because pc players could still use that cam) and shouting off some other aid too, in order to add even some realism more...possibly creating, doing this, 3 different levels of difficulty between the 3 Pro Tours, something i personally think we miss right now and i would love to see.
About fictional courses, i would start saying that honestly i think that is totally senseless to declare 800/900 (if not many more) Tour worthy courses every year/season, if we can use barely 300/400 courses in a whole season, considering all the flights. Maybe it would be better (when the new game will be released and we'll know the changes and the difficulty in game) to create a list of basic requirements for the courses to use on every flight of the Tour, exactly to avoid to be forced to use constantly the same conditions to keep the scores low. It could require time and some long debate, and of course i'm already aware that it would be simply impossible to make everyone happy, but i think it would be a great move, as a starting point to improve the Tour. I think that only a very restricted elite of courses should be considered for the Tour.
Furthermore, my belief is that is possible, for a designer who creates a course, having in mind how the game works and the flight in which it should be used, to obtain a challenging but enjoyable course with no need to crank up the conditions and the weather as the only option.
Another, but totally secondary thing i wish to see implemented as a rule for the courses to be used in the next season, is to have the crowds mandatory on every course used, at least, on the 3 Pro Tours (although i personally wish to see it implemented on CC-Pro too), because is something really important to add atmosphere and some realism. I'm not talking about all the stands and the tournament stuff (even if on PGA and Euro Tour it could be correct to implement it), just about the crowds. I know someone dislike crowds, but personal tastes shouldn't care at all on this point. Probably a lot of Pro players, IRL, would prefer to play tournaments with no crowds to have less pressure, but they must deal with it..and the same we should do here.
I think that a constructive debate about these things could help a lot to improve a Tour already great. Of course, we should need to know strong and weak points of the new games, before. But we could start to fix some basic point, meanwhile.
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Post by CuseHokie on Jun 25, 2020 23:12:42 GMT -5
The problem with this week is there were too many par4s that weren’t reachable or at best between my two longest clubs having to decide if I should land short of the green or flop from behind. That gets old after the third time in a tournament.
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Post by searchingforthegains on Jun 26, 2020 6:16:29 GMT -5
I would like to see us play some of the Major design courses for a few regular events on moderate to hard settings (can avoid the very high wind/very firm green combo rounds)....bad shots are still punished...good shots are rewarded....you can still shoot well and I feel like it identifies the players who are playing the best that week.
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Post by Cecil Harvey on Jul 24, 2020 0:40:48 GMT -5
All I know is I think we shouldn't have courses that get torn to shreds to the tune of -70 or whatever this weeks' winning score will be at the highest level of TGCTours.
Just my .02
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