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Post by sandsaver01 on May 1, 2020 10:14:16 GMT -5
As I recently whinged while carefully scrolling heavy rough along my fairway that has a light rough second surface, "why do I do this - there has got to be a better way". Well I may have found a method. It seems to work quite well, not perfectly but better and quicker than scrolling with a brush. The steps are below: For my normal fairway and green textures I use a spline of 2.0 with a second surface of lt. rough set at 3.1. To put down a heavy rough around this texture without causing waves I temporarily increase the second surface to 9.5, then lay a heavy rough spline of width 2.0 right on the line of the light rough border. after you have gone all the way around and smoothed that texture, then go back and reset the fairway/green second surface to 3.1. There are essentially no waves in the light rough! This method is faster (wouldn't you know it - I figured it out on hole #17 of the course I am building ) and also avoids the problem that happens when brushing of little gaps between the heavy rough and lt. rough texture. Give it a try on your next design that has this issue and let me know how it works out.
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Post by lessthanbread on May 1, 2020 10:28:50 GMT -5
I am certainly gonna give this method a go and I hope to be calling you a brilliant brilliant man after. A question that immediately comes to mind (and I'm sure there is a solution) is if you want different thicknesses of rough around fairways. There is probably a formula for what you have to set the heavy rough spline to for the given rough thickness you want (yay math)
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on May 1, 2020 10:56:15 GMT -5
This method works quite well. Maybe sure you used plenty of spline points on really curved areas or you could cut too close. Definitely speeds up the process.
A similar trick that works good is with green transitions. Instead of marking 6 points on each green (Mayo's method), just mark 1 on your first green, then increase the width of your fringe until it lines up with the point. As long as you use the same width splines for green and fairway, it'll line up perfect every time. Then when you're done with all your surfacing change the fringe to what you want. Viola.
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Post by sandsaver01 on May 1, 2020 12:55:49 GMT -5
I am certainly gonna give this method a go and I hope to be calling you a brilliant brilliant man after. A question that immediately comes to mind (and I'm sure there is a solution) is if you want different thicknesses of rough around fairways. There is probably a formula for what you have to set the heavy rough spline to for the given rough thickness you want (yay math) In this particular instance there was no math involved Joe. I imagine there may be a magic formula but because I alway tend to use the same spline and second surface numbers that is what it worked out to. I can see there may be issues with this method if you want a wider second surface, because you are already putting the temporary second surface out to 9.5 and 10 is as far as you can go. You will have to play around if you want to make changes. Just maybe draw a straight fairway spline changing the spline ans second surface numbers to what you want, and experiment with that. Good luck
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Post by sandsaver01 on May 1, 2020 12:58:42 GMT -5
This method works quite well. Maybe sure you used plenty of spline points on really curved areas or you could cut too close. Definitely speeds up the process. A similar trick that works good is with green transitions. Instead of marking 6 points on each green (Mayo's method), just mark 1 on your first green, then increase the width of your fringe until it lines up with the point. As long as you use the same width splines for green and fairway, it'll line up perfect every time. Then when you're done with all your surfacing change the fringe to what you want. Viola. Justin I am having trouble visualizing what you mean with the transition thing. I use Mayo's method but what you say seems easier (if I could understand it better lol). Did you ever do a video showing this?
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
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TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
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Post by mayday_golf83 on May 1, 2020 14:10:55 GMT -5
It's not quite the same, Justin, as with the transitions, I'm using the measure tool to mark out where current spline points are and then tracing over them w/ a different surface. What Mike's talking about here is a different workaround to painting heavy round around the edge of your light rough to prevent the squiggly lines where the two textures blend (long known, long unfixed HB bug).
Just fiddled with it and it does seem to work. I would have to fiddle with it a bit more, but it would seem the formula could be a=(2*h)+s where a is the adjusted 2nd surface width you'd trace over w/ the heavy rough, h is your heavy rough width and s is your current 2nd surface. So for me, using heavy rough width of 2.5 and second surface of 4.2, I would adjust the second surface to 9.2 before tracing. (2*2.5) + 4.2 = 9.2.
I imagine, by overlapping points along the trace line, you could also ring the outside perimeter of your heavy rough on a particular hole and lay down all the heavy rough in one fell swoop.
Have to tinker w/ this more, but I think Mike's on to something here. I'm not sure if it's a huge time saver, but it may be a cleaner way of doing it.
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Post by lessthanbread on May 1, 2020 14:22:32 GMT -5
It's not quite the same, Justin, as with the transitions, I'm using the measure tool to mark out where current spline points are and then tracing over them w/ a different surface. What Mike's talking about here is a different workaround to painting heavy round around the edge of your light rough to prevent the squiggly lines where the two textures blend (long known, long unfixed HB bug). Just fiddled with it and it does seem to work. I would have to fiddle with it a bit more, but it would seem the formula could be a=(2 *h)+s where a is the adjusted 2nd surface width you'd trace over w/ the heavy rough, h is your heavy rough width and s is your current 2nd surface. So for me, using heavy rough width of 2.5 and second surface of 4.2, I would adjust the second surface to 9.2 before tracing. (2*2.5) + 4.2 = 9.2. I imagine, by overlapping points along the trace line, you could also ring the outside perimeter of your heavy rough on a particular hole and lay down all the heavy rough in one fell swoop. Have to tinker w/ this more, but I think Mike's on to something here. I'm not sure if it's a huge time saver, but it may be a cleaner way of doing it.
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Post by sandsaver01 on May 1, 2020 14:23:17 GMT -5
It's not quite the same, Justin, as with the transitions, I'm using the measure tool to mark out where current spline points are and then tracing over them w/ a different surface. What Mike's talking about here is a different workaround to painting heavy round around the edge of your light rough to prevent the squiggly lines where the two textures blend (long known, long unfixed HB bug). Just fiddled with it and it does seem to work. I would have to fiddle with it a bit more, but it would seem the formula could be a=(2 *h)+s where a is the adjusted 2nd surface width you'd trace over w/ the heavy rough, h is your heavy rough width and s is your current 2nd surface. So for me, using heavy rough width of 2.5 and second surface of 4.2, I would adjust the second surface to 9.2 before tracing. (2*2.5) + 4.2 = 9.2. I imagine, by overlapping points along the trace line, you could also ring the outside perimeter of your heavy rough on a particular hole and lay down all the heavy rough in one fell swoop. Have to tinker w/ this more, but I think Mike's on to something here. I'm not sure if it's a huge time saver, but it may be a cleaner way of doing it. Jeremy, great work with the maths (I don't know why us dumb Americans say "math" instead since it is short for mathematic"s"). I did not work out the formula since it was not need for my purposes, but it is good of you to do so. The idea about overlapping the points is also a good one, but since I am doing exclusively Lidar designs from OSM traces I just "unfill" the heavy rough splines from OSM and then use a brush to fill in between the two sets of splines. It is still faster and neater than using the brush, at least in my hands.
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reebdoog
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Post by reebdoog on May 1, 2020 14:34:01 GMT -5
I make an effort...but usually I don't care. I'm a horrible person who is bad. I'm sorry...
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on May 1, 2020 14:38:16 GMT -5
It's not quite the same, Justin, as with the transitions, I'm using the measure tool to mark out where current spline points are and then tracing over them w/ a different surface. What Mike's talking about here is a different workaround to painting heavy round around the edge of your light rough to prevent the squiggly lines where the two textures blend (long known, long unfixed HB bug). Just fiddled with it and it does seem to work. I would have to fiddle with it a bit more, but it would seem the formula could be a=(2 *h)+s where a is the adjusted 2nd surface width you'd trace over w/ the heavy rough, h is your heavy rough width and s is your current 2nd surface. So for me, using heavy rough width of 2.5 and second surface of 4.2, I would adjust the second surface to 9.2 before tracing. (2*2.5) + 4.2 = 9.2. I imagine, by overlapping points along the trace line, you could also ring the outside perimeter of your heavy rough on a particular hole and lay down all the heavy rough in one fell swoop. Have to tinker w/ this more, but I think Mike's on to something here. I'm not sure if it's a huge time saver, but it may be a cleaner way of doing it. Thanks for doing the math. Im in the heavy rough stage of my wip so can't wait to try this more. As far as the transitions. Its the same principal. When you set your first green, use the measure tool to mark out one spline point instead of a few of them. Zoom in on it and change your default fringe width until it meets up with the measure marker. Now every green you set will have the line between fringe and green aligned with the spline points. When you change the width the fringe only moves to the inside. The outside of the overall green doesn't change. So you can adjust the fringe to any size when you're done. Now when laying your fairway you just follow that line between green and fringe as opposed to making marks every time. And you can change the fringe size and the transition will still be perfect. The same as splining the heavy rough when you're following the outside of your surface. Basicially you create a line to follow. Give it a shot, you'll see what I mean. Im actually excited about doing heavy rough right now.
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Post by DoubtfulObelisk on May 1, 2020 15:27:09 GMT -5
It's not quite the same, Justin, as with the transitions, I'm using the measure tool to mark out where current spline points are and then tracing over them w/ a different surface. What Mike's talking about here is a different workaround to painting heavy round around the edge of your light rough to prevent the squiggly lines where the two textures blend (long known, long unfixed HB bug). Just fiddled with it and it does seem to work. I would have to fiddle with it a bit more, but it would seem the formula could be a=(2 *h)+s where a is the adjusted 2nd surface width you'd trace over w/ the heavy rough, h is your heavy rough width and s is your current 2nd surface. So for me, using heavy rough width of 2.5 and second surface of 4.2, I would adjust the second surface to 9.2 before tracing. (2*2.5) + 4.2 = 9.2. I imagine, by overlapping points along the trace line, you could also ring the outside perimeter of your heavy rough on a particular hole and lay down all the heavy rough in one fell swoop. Have to tinker w/ this more, but I think Mike's on to something here. I'm not sure if it's a huge time saver, but it may be a cleaner way of doing it. Jeremy, great work with the maths ( I don't know why us dumb Americans say "math" instead since it is short for mathematic"s"). I did not work out the formula since it was not need for my purposes, but it is good of you to do so. The idea about overlapping the points is also a good one, but since I am doing exclusively Lidar designs from OSM traces I just "unfill" the heavy rough splines from OSM and then use a brush to fill in between the two sets of splines. It is still faster and neater than using the brush, at least in my hands. Sorry for derailing the thread slightly, but here’s an interesting YouTube video on the Numberphile channel that covers the topic of math vs. maths: On a more relevant note, this looks like a really neat idea. My current WIP doesn’t have any light rough, but I look forward to trying this in the near future!
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