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Post by theduke21 on Apr 12, 2020 16:42:06 GMT -5
This is impressive. Had a lovely water hazard and managed to make 6 straight holes with it being a complete useless divide in the fairway on every hole.
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Post by tpetro on Apr 12, 2020 23:14:07 GMT -5
I don't think this is the "worst" hole in golf..for sure is not..but i think that the beautiful par 3 hole 15 at Oak Hill East has been ruined forever and in such a stupid and nonsense way that i realized i just won't play that course anymore. It was such a great hole, a relatively small and slightly longitudinal green with a pond on all the front/right side (to play with a middle iron from I8 to I6 generally, depending pins and wind), making the shortest pins a great adventure everytime and the longest approaches really, really satisfying. One of those holes in which if you don't risk, you can't score. I just loved it! Now..the pond has been drained, the green resized and every charme of that hole is just dead and gone. Is just ridicolous..cause i can't really see any improvement in this move. Now is just an anonymous par 3 with not a soul. As a side note, of course i know i'm too ignorant to judge the technical side of this work properly, but the worst part of all the story, in my opinion, is that actually almost ALL the renovation work at Oak Hill East made by Andrew Green is just and simply a f***ed rape. Looking at the old FABOULOUS design of this historic course (Donald Ross design, renovated in these years by giants like Trent Jones Sr and Tom Fazio, an architect i don't love too much but at least he knows how to pay some f***ed respect to a great work) and then looking at the new design, my only feeling is..i don't know..as if Andrew Green wanted just to delete EVERY TRACE of the work made by Ross. Not only when i look the design as it was before and as it is now, honestly i can't find a single renovated hole in which i can say "wow, now is better!". But he also changed a lot of greens and other littke things that were simply perfect, with the very recognizable touch of Ross, making them simply ugly. I would to invite all of you guys to check both the layouts, every hole, every green, and at least you will see if i'm just crazy or not. The only good move of this clown has been to create that new hole 6 using the fairway of the old 5 and the green of the old 6. But all the rest is just a reiterated sexual violence agajnst a golf course. I never saw a renovation work less respectful. Seriously. A$$hole!! Dylan after reading this just a heads up, you’re wrong and he’s gonna filet you pal. run for cover
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Post by TannerBronson on Apr 13, 2020 0:35:07 GMT -5
I don't think this is the "worst" hole in golf..for sure is not..but i think that the beautiful par 3 hole 15 at Oak Hill East has been ruined forever and in such a stupid and nonsense way that i realized i just won't play that course anymore. It was such a great hole, a relatively small and slightly longitudinal green with a pond on all the front/right side (to play with a middle iron from I8 to I6 generally, depending pins and wind), making the shortest pins a great adventure everytime and the longest approaches really, really satisfying. One of those holes in which if you don't risk, you can't score. I just loved it! Now..the pond has been drained, the green resized and every charme of that hole is just dead and gone. Is just ridicolous..cause i can't really see any improvement in this move. Now is just an anonymous par 3 with not a soul. As a side note, of course i know i'm too ignorant to judge the technical side of this work properly, but the worst part of all the story, in my opinion, is that actually almost ALL the renovation work at Oak Hill East made by Andrew Green is just and simply a f***ed rape. Looking at the old FABOULOUS design of this historic course (Donald Ross design, renovated in these years by giants like Trent Jones Sr and Tom Fazio, an architect i don't love too much but at least he knows how to pay some f***ed respect to a great work) and then looking at the new design, my only feeling is..i don't know..as if Andrew Green wanted just to delete EVERY TRACE of the work made by Ross. Not only when i look the design as it was before and as it is now, honestly i can't find a single renovated hole in which i can say "wow, now is better!". But he also changed a lot of greens and other littke things that were simply perfect, with the very recognizable touch of Ross, making them simply ugly. I would to invite all of you guys to check both the layouts, every hole, every green, and at least you will see if i'm just crazy or not. The only good move of this clown has been to create that new hole 6 using the fairway of the old 5 and the green of the old 6. But all the rest is just a reiterated sexual violence agajnst a golf course. I never saw a renovation work less respectful. Seriously. A$$hole!! Dear sir, This Comment of yours is laughable. I’m a member at Oak Hill Country Club and have played the course since I can remember. The RESTORATION (NOT RENOVATION, I will get to this later) that happened over the summer and fall of 2019 was special for me because I got to WORK ALONGSIDE the man himself, Andrew Green. After telling him I'm an aspiring architect he was more than willing to show mw the ropes and let me ride around with him almost every day. Now before we talk about your precious 15th hole at Oak Hill, let’s talk about the culprits themselves. Tom Fazio and Robert Trent Jones are good at designing. But have RUINED the most classic courses of the United States. The mastermind of Donald Ross should have never been touched. And there should be no reason for Trent Jones and Fazio characteristics to stay. Their styles of “clean design” are borderline gross and have ruined so many amazing holes and sightlines of clean, straight and boring bunker edges are a crime when it comes to changing a classical Ross Design. When Bob Costus says “The traditional Donald Ross design” anytime a major is broadcasted, IT WAS LIES. This Ross gem was surgically ripped apart by these two “Modernists” and completely destroyed what should have been an open inland American Links. THE FAZIO AND TRENT 15th HOLE WAS A BAD HOLE Back to a point I made earlier. Andrew green wasn’t hired to design a RENOVATION. Instead he was supposed to RESTORE the Donald ross masterpiece that your two princesses of the design world ruined. It was ruined so bad that someone had to “Restore” Oak Hill. Working with Andrew Green was the most amazing experience ever and I learned so much. Bunker shaping, green sculpting and sightlines. He showed me the original drawings of the Donald Ross design. Which I already had and looked at all the time because I was interested. But he took me through everything he was restoring. And I'll be doing the same to you now because you and your Fazio loving ass are made to now after a stupid comment. ALL THE SKETCHES ARE DONE BY ROSS Hole 1 Par 4 Sketch Post RESTORATION As you can see he has restored the fairway bunkers on the left side with distinct Donald Ross bunkering. This adds so much to the tee shot and much more appealing to the eye. He has also subtracted two bunkers near the green and added traditional Donald Ross hummocks (Which are mounds). Here is a before and after. Hole 2 Par 4 Sketch Post RESTORATION This hole was also brilliantly restored by Andrew with repositioning the bunkers in practically the same exact spots Donald Ross had them. The green was also formed to be the old Donald Ross shape that was made back in 1928. Here is a before and after. The bunkers are now given more interesting edges and more Ross characteristics. Hole 3 Par 3 Sketch Post RESTORATION This holes bunkers and green were RESTORED as well. The bunkering is much more characterful with ross edges and grass faces. The two bunkers in front as well were joined together to make the one bunker Ross made. The green shape was also restored. Here is a before and after. Hole 4 Par 5 Sketch Post RESTORATION The first par 5 at Oak Hill was restored back to its original design by adding the third bunker on the right side of the tee shot. The bunker lips look like glorified mountains with the fazio sculpting and it just looks gross. The approach shot is also restored with the bunkers placed in the old positions which benefit strategic golf. The left bunker before the approach is restored as well. The green was also reshaped and sculpted. Here are some before and after photos. Before: After: Hole 5 Par 3 (Used to be par 4) Sketch HOLY GOD THIS IS WHEN THE CULPRITS THAT YOU CALL GOOD DESIGNERS GOOFED. The hole that used to be the 5th was just a fazio disaster. His typical use of a water hazard and undermined way to sculpt a green was done here. Anything bad that you could think of in a hole is made here. The one bunker in the fairway is this boring piece of crap shoved to the side for sightlines. Not even near where pros hit it. Even back in 2003 for the PGA and the 1989 Open. Now the par 3 that UESD to be in the center of the property that was moved by your DESIGN GENIUS, is now made into the par 3 that would have been in the center of the plot of land that Ross Intended. Before: Post RESTORATION: ANYWAYS. You get the story. He did what needed to be done which was erasing every bit of evil that was fazio and Trent. If you want me to I will give you the rest of the course... BBBBBUTTTTTTTTTT Im gonna have to write you a story about your precious 15th hole. Hole 15 Par 3 DO YOU SEE ANY POND ON THIS SKETCH Donald Ross was a mastermind in golf architecture and I think you need to be a bit more educated before you make a claim that the Number one top restoration designer of last year did a terrible thing for oak hill. The 15th hole at Oak hill didn’t even fit the course. The pond was in the middle of nowhere. Here is a before and after: You and your gross people you call designers ruined a gem and it was redone extremely well. Hope you had fun reading. Cheers! Your new friendly enemy!
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Post by linkslover on Apr 13, 2020 3:18:15 GMT -5
I have the 'winner' but I don't think I'll be able to do the hole 'justice' on here since I can't find any photos online of the hole and I don't have any of my own. Burslem Golf Club is a 9 hole golf club in Stoke-on-Trent. It's the worst golf club I've ever played. Only one hole is over 400 yards and only one hole (the 5th/14th) is enjoyable to play. The rest are bad, but the 9th/18th is truly awful. It's a blind, uphill par 3 that measures 227 yards from the white (back) tees and 226 from the yellows (men's general play). There is a marker post to aim over. The trouble is, the first time I played the course, I hit it straight over said marker post, only to find my ball on the 3rd/12th green and not the 9th/18th. This is about 20 yards off line to the left. Not only that, but once you have learned not to aim over the marker post, the green is one of, if not the narrowest on the course. It's a complete joke of the hole. This link is a Google Maps overhead of the hole. I've put the measuring tool to show the tee to green, hopefully it comes out OK. Edit: Link removed. It just takes you to Google Maps and puts Burslem Golf Club in for you, but you still have to press enter to find it. This is a link to the scorecard, which includes a basic course map, though doesn't show the basic layout. howdidido.blob.core.windows.net/clubsitespublic/file_b3884b2b-17ad-4509-bf2d-a33834d633ba.pdf
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 13, 2020 3:33:46 GMT -5
Here's another shite one... What’s wrong with this one? It’s pretty, unique and actually not overly punishing for an island par 3 I would say. Logistically is arguably the wirst hole in the world, imagine the time it takes to play. Secondly it's aesthetic completely breaks away from the rest of the course. It's like if Pine Valley had all its original holes except for one which was 17 at Sawgrass. Thirdly I'd say that this hole isn't more forgiving as every time hit the water you're stood at the tee box again unlike other island greens where you can move up closer or at better angles, or even be saved by the surrounding banks. I just really hate this abomination.
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 13, 2020 3:38:43 GMT -5
I don't think this is the "worst" hole in golf..for sure is not..but i think that the beautiful par 3 hole 15 at Oak Hill East has been ruined forever and in such a stupid and nonsense way that i realized i just won't play that course anymore. It was such a great hole, a relatively small and slightly longitudinal green with a pond on all the front/right side (to play with a middle iron from I8 to I6 generally, depending pins and wind), making the shortest pins a great adventure everytime and the longest approaches really, really satisfying. One of those holes in which if you don't risk, you can't score. I just loved it! Now..the pond has been drained, the green resized and every charme of that hole is just dead and gone. Is just ridicolous..cause i can't really see any improvement in this move. Now is just an anonymous par 3 with not a soul. As a side note, of course i know i'm too ignorant to judge the technical side of this work properly, but the worst part of all the story, in my opinion, is that actually almost ALL the renovation work at Oak Hill East made by Andrew Green is just and simply a f***ed rape. Looking at the old FABOULOUS design of this historic course (Donald Ross design, renovated in these years by giants like Trent Jones Sr and Tom Fazio, an architect i don't love too much but at least he knows how to pay some f***ed respect to a great work) and then looking at the new design, my only feeling is..i don't know..as if Andrew Green wanted just to delete EVERY TRACE of the work made by Ross. Not only when i look the design as it was before and as it is now, honestly i can't find a single renovated hole in which i can say "wow, now is better!". But he also changed a lot of greens and other littke things that were simply perfect, with the very recognizable touch of Ross, making them simply ugly. I would to invite all of you guys to check both the layouts, every hole, every green, and at least you will see if i'm just crazy or not. The only good move of this clown has been to create that new hole 6 using the fairway of the old 5 and the green of the old 6. But all the rest is just a reiterated sexual violence agajnst a golf course. I never saw a renovation work less respectful. Seriously. A$$hole!! ....... Didn't expect this view from you. The latest work at Oak Hill is a faithful restoration to Donald Ross and from what I've seen it is vastly superior to all the previous renovations etc. It's looking the best I've ever seen it.
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 13, 2020 3:57:34 GMT -5
For the record I'd like state that the new (old) 15th at Oak Hill looks unbelievable. Infinitely better than the previous.
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Post by b101 on Apr 13, 2020 4:23:50 GMT -5
Worst would be a stretch, but I've always had a hatred for this hole when I've seen it played. I really like Whistling Straits and I'm a fan of a lot of Pete Dye stuff, but this one just triggers me - feels far too manufactured and forcing the second shot. I guess this hole is Pete in a nutshell though. kohlertacr.blob.core.windows.net/media/1015/no-5-yardage-guide.pdf
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Post by b101 on Apr 13, 2020 4:31:03 GMT -5
Also not sure this is the place for comments including rape and sexual violence or generally having a go at each other. TGCT is my happy place away from the real world - would be great to keep it that way. Pretty sure we can all civilly disagree or query opinions without resorting to insults.
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Post by theduke21 on Apr 13, 2020 6:13:11 GMT -5
Worst would be a stretch, but I've always had a hatred for this hole when I've seen it played. I really like Whistling Straits and I'm a fan of a lot of Pete Dye stuff, but this one just triggers me - feels far too manufactured and forcing the second shot. I guess this hole is Pete in a nutshell though. kohlertacr.blob.core.windows.net/media/1015/no-5-yardage-guide.pdfI've always hated that hole so much, sticks out like a sore thumb on that course.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Apr 13, 2020 6:44:25 GMT -5
Worst would be a stretch, but I've always had a hatred for this hole when I've seen it played. I really like Whistling Straits and I'm a fan of a lot of Pete Dye stuff, but this one just triggers me - feels far too manufactured and forcing the second shot. I guess this hole is Pete in a nutshell though. kohlertacr.blob.core.windows.net/media/1015/no-5-yardage-guide.pdf100 percent. What's with the 2 90 degree turns to that hole? Im guessing that's just played as a 3 shot 5 most of the time? Is that the setup they used for the PGA championship? Because it seems that would play more intresting from those blue tees, or maybe even the white. Or some imaginary tee way off to the left.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Apr 13, 2020 6:57:13 GMT -5
And thanks for ruining my morning coffee with that barrage of horrible holes joegolferg.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Apr 13, 2020 9:08:50 GMT -5
TannerBronson sorry mate, my bad. Shortly after i wrote that post i had the doubt to check how the course was at the very start and i saw immediately i said a bunch of very stupid things, but..well..it was late. But at least is not too late to simply admit it. I could/should check the whole thing BEFORE to speak. Very, very stupid thing. As always, your explanation has been really interesting. And no..i definitely have not a new "enemy"..and i hope for you is the same. Also considering i admire you a lot. But..anyway..i still prefer the old 15. Sorry for this.
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Post by TannerBronson on Apr 13, 2020 9:10:22 GMT -5
TannerBronson sorry mate, my bad. Shortly after i wrote that post i had the doubt to check how the course was at the very start and i saw immediately i said a bunch of very stupid things, but..well..it was late. But at least is not too late to simply admit it. I could/should check the whole thing BEFORE to speak. Very, very stupid thing. As always, your explanation has been really interesting. And no..i definitely have not a new "enemy"..and i hope for you is the same. Also considering i admire you a lot. But..anyway..i still prefer the old 15. Sorry for this. I was more than half joking with you. I just had to defend in a funny way. No hard feelings!
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Apr 13, 2020 9:11:05 GMT -5
TannerBronson sorry mate, my bad. Shortly after i wrote that post i had the doubt to check how the course was at the very start and i saw immediately i said a bunch of very stupid things, but..well..it was late. But at least is not too late to simply admit it. I could/should check the whole thing BEFORE to speak. Very, very stupid thing. As always, your explanation has been really interesting. And no..i definitely have not a new "enemy"..and i hope for you is the same. Also considering i admire you a lot. But..anyway..i still prefer the old 15. Sorry for this. I was more than half joking with you. I just had to defend in a funny way. No hard feelings! I know it
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