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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 1:56:10 GMT -5
I think it would be most challenging and identify the best versatile player if we used four extremely different conditions over the four rounds. It gets old playing the same basic conditions every tourney. Very soft/slow - Very firm/fast and Very high winds would be engaging. But you might get run out of here with pitchforks stuck in you. A) How realistic is it to go from very slow to very fast greens in a three day span, let alone one or two? Same with very soft to very firm?
B) Green speeds variations like you suggest need to be tested on all systems for the usual yellow/red slopes around the hole. They also may not be an accurate representation of the designers intentions of the course they put forth.
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Post by theduke21 on Feb 12, 2020 2:06:03 GMT -5
I'll go ahead and say I probably won't be messing with green speeds all that often. Most designers use a speed that fits the course and the way they should roll. I'm fine with variation by 10-15 feet one way or the other if it can handle it, but I'm not going to be throwing out some 120 ft greens at any point. They just don't play well on the game in my opinion.
I will be testing out firmness a lot. One thing I'm planning to do is use soft fairway fairly often. One reason this game is so easy is we're all hitting fast/perfects and hitting 320 yard drives on firm fairways most of the time. Using some softer fairways and maybe toning greens down to medium would allow for a lot more long irons into greens instead of wedges all of the time. I'll try to make everything gradual. No VF/VS/VF/VS type of deal.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 12, 2020 2:08:51 GMT -5
I'll go ahead and say I probably won't be messing with green speeds all that often. Most designers use a speed that fits the course and the way they should roll. I'm fine with variation by 10-15 feet one way or the other if it can handle it, but I'm not going to be throwing out some 120 ft greens at any point. They just don't play well on the game in my opinion. I will be testing out firmness a lot. One thing I'm planning to do is use soft fairway fairly often. One reason this game is so easy is we're all hitting fast/perfects and hitting 320 yard drives on firm fairways most of the time. Using some softer fairways and maybe toning greens down to medium would allow for a lot more long irons into greens instead of wedges all of the time. I'll try to make everything gradual. No VF/VS/VF/VS type of deal. Praise. The. Lord. 🥳 Green speed tinkering has been the .... said it before. Don’t need to say it again.
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Post by rcknfrewld on Feb 12, 2020 2:52:21 GMT -5
Well we're not exactly mimicking the real life PGA here anymore so might as well go all out to make it the most difficult. Maybe we'll get a wider variety of winners. Being able to mentally adapt to conditions should be a component.
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Post by rcknfrewld on Feb 12, 2020 2:58:02 GMT -5
And don't focus on trying to appease the few who post here because the silent other hundred or so that play PGA get neglected. Plus the few people that contribute here mainly struggle to make cuts. So consider the source so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 3:04:43 GMT -5
Well we're not exactly mimicking the real life PGA here anymore so might as well go all out to make it the most difficult. Maybe we'll get a wider variety of winners. Being able to mentally adapt to conditions should be a component. This is a mild problem, IMO. We have deviated far enough, IMO. No need to go further.
How do you get more variety than having 22 weeks in with some side events and having no more than three winners total so far with a large subset to two and one winners for the season?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 3:20:35 GMT -5
And don't focus on trying to appease the few who post here because the silent other hundred or so that play PGA get neglected. Plus the few people that contribute here mainly struggle to make cuts. So consider the source so to speak. I mean, are you calling me out here or what?
You won't quote, but react to "things" or "posts" in general, but make broad strokes that are fairly obvious what you mean. This is outside of your obvious beef with fadge.
"The silent hundred or so that play PGA get neglected"?!? What does this even mean? Those that don't participate in these long standing community threads that have been open to all for all these years? Do you even hear yourself? These forums preceded even myself more than five years ago.
What are you even going for with your posts? Do you have a direction?
I am fine with staying out of your weird personal feud with fadge, but when you are proposing crazy/odd conditions on top of what I deem in the past fair, but a borderline fantasy tinge on course selection, I do not understand what you are going for here in your arguments. PGA! Read it! I may be wrong, but having the well recognized PGA tour stops be considered (when a fair version is available) shouldn't be unreasonable I wouldn't think?!
Nothing against all current designers, nothing against their creations that add to the TGCT community. It's just that with PGA, Euro, KF, CC-Pro, and CC-Am, there should be room for quality RCRs. And I would think that the PGA Tour, where the majority of well know tour stops are should be a strong consideration... when there is a quality enough stop available.
You are proposing this tour go to the extreme with conditions that aren't really based in any reality, but to ask that we play just to test our abilities. I counter that we have had this enough already in the past, and any MORE added to this is too much.
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Post by rcknfrewld on Feb 12, 2020 3:36:47 GMT -5
Take it easy. Nothing vindictive like you insinuate. I was referring to the few that post here. I'm not going take the time to think and name names you all know who post here. No big deal. And yes I think of the big broader picture instead of narrowly focusing on minutia that doesn't matter. Just giving my opinion like everybody else. Not interested in arguing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 3:44:49 GMT -5
Take it easy. Nothing vindictive like you insinuate. I was referring to the few that post here. I'm not going take the time to think and name names you all know who post here. No big deal. And yes I think of the big broader picture instead of narrowly focusing on minutia that doesn't matter. Just giving my opinion like everybody else. Not interested in arguing. This is a great non-post that doesn't get in to any specifics. You called out specific course variations that you though would benefit the tour.
Fair enough.
However, the above response is so general that I cannot even know what you mean or are going for. You do not defend your specific wants for course conditions at all.
In response you won't even quote even me directly. It isn't hard to hit the quote button.
What is it you are going for with your responses? You want to ask for specific changes, but when pressed you give these very vague and general responses that mean basically nothing.
I ask you, can you be specific in what you are going for (details!) or is it that you just want to be "heard" as an alternative opinion to the "norm" regardless of anything else that really matters to this tour?
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Post by rcknfrewld on Feb 12, 2020 4:23:47 GMT -5
I don't like clogging up the thread with your previous quotes because they are quite long-winded at times. There, I named you. Happy? And you knew I was responding to you without having to quote you. And to me it's just common sense to vary the conditions. I'm not going to make a mock PGA schedule here and tediously list all the round's different conditions. I assume greatly varying conditions is understood and that a scheduler knows how to employ them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 4:35:36 GMT -5
I don't like clogging up the thread with your previous quotes because they are quite long-winded at times. There, I named you. Happy? And you knew I was responding to you without having to quote you. And to me it's just common sense to vary the conditions. I'm not going to make a mock PGA schedule here and tediously list all the round's different conditions. I assume geatly varying conditions is understood and that a scheduler knows how to employ them. This could mean almost ANYTHING!
Be specific. Concentrate with me. This isn't hard. What is it you specifically want or are asking for?
Very slows to very fasts? Or what the new scheduler is proposing? Within reasonable conditions of the designers original course design or YOLO conditions? BOTH are considered "varying the conditions".
What I believe the new PGA scheduler is proposing is realistic, but what you proposed earlier (and yet will not defend after repeated asks) could also be considered varying conditions but yours are in reality not what one would see in an actual event.
Simply, I ask you... are you asking for highly varying conditions a.k.a. a fantasy tour? Do not dilute your answer, but you probably will anyways.
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Post by rcknfrewld on Feb 12, 2020 4:38:41 GMT -5
You're giving me a headache trying to make me think this way. I need coffee. I'll get back to you.
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 12, 2020 4:43:18 GMT -5
And don't focus on trying to appease the few who post here because the silent other hundred or so that play PGA get neglected. Plus the few people that contribute here mainly struggle to make cuts. So consider the source so to speak. Voice of the people - James, whiter than white, Brandon. The poor, silent, neglected members are well able to contribute, but choose not to. The forum is open for all to use. How do you know what their temperature on all of this is? If you don't understand by now that messing with the green speeds too much routinely kills the design intent with the more sculpted greens complexes that we encounter on PGA, and also makes a lot of courses putt very strangely, well... I hope that during your time as a ranger you can learn to appreciate this. Nobody wants it to be easy. Quite the opposite. Make it hard, but make it fair. High / varied winds... default directions at times... firm terrain vs soft terrain...there are many ways to make it play differently outside of greatly varying the speeds. You don't need fantasy courses with pins on VF VF Molehills to achieve that. I'd love to see us back to playing a few more RCRs to suit the schedule stops, as has been mentioned. This is meant to be the PGA Tour after all.There are so many great designers doing good work, that it'd be stupid to overlook those, but not every week and at the expense of a good RCR. Would love to see more good quality RCRs out there... Anyway, ignore me. I don't make every cut, am only WGR50 currently, have played all 3 iterations of the game, being on PGA since TGC2, and hold down a single figure handicap IRL - Maybe James can educate the rest of the rangers on what qualities to look for in folk, so as to see whose opinions to discount. Signed Lovingly A Struggling PGA Medium, who sometimes makes cuts (legitimately)
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Post by fadgewacker on Feb 12, 2020 4:49:24 GMT -5
Doyley theduke21I understand that the courses are set for the next few weeks, but when will Tyler be taking control of the settings?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2020 4:50:16 GMT -5
Doyley theduke21 I understand that the courses are set for the next few weeks, but when will Tyler be taking control of the settings? Week 30 as per a previous post.
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