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Post by jwtexan on Feb 17, 2020 13:03:38 GMT -5
So was each group of 4 is some sort of round robin thing vs each other?? I went back and re-read the original signup thread which mentioned the round robin.. Anyway.. no worries - just excited to start seeing some results.. good or bad.. it is what it is... its like the real World Cup. Each course plays every other course in its group in a 1 on 1 matchup. Best 2 courses from each group move on to the round of 16. |
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Post by Trayys on Feb 17, 2020 13:42:54 GMT -5
Like TO once said, "Get ya popcorn ready!"  |
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Post by zzfr33b1rdzz on Feb 17, 2020 13:47:37 GMT -5
So was each group of 4 is some sort of round robin thing vs each other?? I went back and re-read the original signup thread which mentioned the round robin.. Anyway.. no worries - just excited to start seeing some results.. good or bad.. it is what it is... its like the real World Cup. Each course plays every other course in its group in a 1 on 1 matchup. Best 2 courses from each group move on to the round of 16. Thanks JW - that's what I figured - so groups would end up with records like 3-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-3.. Would think that would weed out the ties since there is an uneven total number of matches - I guess it depends on how many judges evaluate in each of the group stages.. |
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Post by Davidius74 on Feb 17, 2020 14:43:56 GMT -5
2 judges per matchup so each matchup could potentially end in a draw
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Post by LocoOnTheSoco on Feb 17, 2020 14:53:19 GMT -5
Head over to the season 5 area, all of last year's results groups are still up. You can see how they played out to get an idea of what's in store.
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Post by lessthanbread on Feb 18, 2020 2:06:43 GMT -5
I’m getting real excited for the judge unmasking ceremony..  |
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Post by b101 on Feb 18, 2020 2:27:54 GMT -5
Interesting how much difficulty seems to be a factor in a contest where there's no prescribed difficulty...
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Post by Davidius74 on Feb 18, 2020 5:25:04 GMT -5
This was a tough competition as there were so many good courses put through as you would expect from the best designers in the game. That being said there could only be 16 courses making it through to next round and while there are some surprises and shocks the scores were close.
What everyone has to keep in mind is that with most of the normal judges competing in the contest a lot of the judging panel was made up of those with less experience and as such would look at a course differently than many of the contestants would. We were given guidelines of what to look for and judged within them.
Also a lot of judges are not necessarily using master's clubs and have differing skill levels so playability would be different too.
Not everyone is going to agree on the results as like anything that involves judging it comes down to how an individual judge sees it.
There will be winners and losers and after the results there has been massive debate about them all and why and has become quite heated.
I will gladly state I was on the judging panel for the first time but won't mention others but everyone should consider what I have said above and take that into consideration.
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Feb 18, 2020 8:30:29 GMT -5
What everyone has to keep in mind is that with most of the normal judges competing in the contest a lot of the judging panel was made up of those with less experience and as such would look at a course differently than many of the contestants would. We were given guidelines of what to look for and judged within them. Remember when the NFL went with replacement refs? That worked out well. |
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Feb 18, 2020 8:33:56 GMT -5
I’m getting real excited for the judge unmasking ceremony.. 🖐 |
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279 
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Feb 18, 2020 8:42:31 GMT -5
What everyone has to keep in mind is that with most of the normal judges competing in the contest a lot of the judging panel was made up of those with less experience and as such would look at a course differently than many of the contestants would. We were given guidelines of what to look for and judged within them. Remember when the NFL went with replacement refs? That worked out well. #FailMary still cuts deep with me as a Packers fan. However, I do appreciate what David said. Judging for the first time is an eye-opening experience, especially when you’re asked to critique to work of designers who you hold in high regard. If the judges gave their best effort, and gave every course its due process, we can disagree with the outcome, but respect their decisions. For the new judges, there have been and will be some hot takes the next couple of days, and again when results for subsequent rounds are released. Hopefully those who lost can do so with some respect and grace, but it’s damn hard to have a course you’ve spent 100s of hours on get shot down in flames so suddenly. Some guys hurt today and I feel for them. That said, I’m hoping you never judges are learning what makes these courses tick and why guys did what they did and didn’t do what they didn’t. If you can understand that, and then apply those lessons to your own work, you will become better designers. That I can say unquestionably having been a 1st-time judge once. |
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Post by ryanmcconnell on Feb 18, 2020 8:51:42 GMT -5
I get that. And we should all be grateful that the judges were willing to sacrifice their own time and go through all the courses. I’m not upset at any result. People will always have different preferences. I had a judge who didn’t like playing on a course with waste bunkers. Ok. That’s a loss for me right off the bat. Whatever. What I think could have been improved on is the feedback. I was told my course was technically executed very well by one and then told there were several major technical flaws throughout 🤣. Ok, I just spent a whole lot of time building this thing, please take the 10 minutes to go in depth and just give me a few examples, would love to hear it.
Rookie judges in the top competition was a recipe for disaster from the start.
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Post by Davidius74 on Feb 18, 2020 9:30:11 GMT -5
Remember when the NFL went with replacement refs? That worked out well. #FailMary still cuts deep with me as a Packers fan. However, I do appreciate what David said. Judging for the first time is an eye-opening experience, especially when you’re asked to critique to work of designers who you hold in high regard. If the judges gave their best effort, and gave every course its due process, we can disagree with the outcome, but respect their decisions. For the new judges, there have been and will be some hot takes the next couple of days, and again when results for subsequent rounds are released. Hopefully those who lost can do so with some respect and grace, but it’s damn hard to have a course you’ve spent 100s of hours on get shot down in flames so suddenly. Some guys hurt today and I feel for them. That said, I’m hoping you never judges are learning what makes these courses tick and why guys did what they did and didn’t do what they didn’t. If you can understand that, and then apply those lessons to your own work, you will become better designers. That I can say unquestionably having been a 1st-time judge once. Jeremy, we have agreed through the last couple of weeks by critiquing courses how we can improve as designers and how much we have learnt in such a short space of time, this combined with feedback from rookie comp has really shown my flaws in designing and have learnt from them. The amount of times I have gone into the designer of late and spent a couple of hours on what I thought worked and looked good then looked at it from a judging standpoint and reloaded without saving is too numerous to mention. I am happy with what marks I gave and what I saw and though there are things I normally don't like, I looked at everything objectively. Ok, I don't like certain things, however I didn't take points of for it but judged it according to how well those things were executed. |
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Feb 18, 2020 10:03:26 GMT -5
I get that. And we should all be grateful that the judges were willing to sacrifice their own time and go through all the courses. I’m not upset at any result. People will always have different preferences. I had a judge who didn’t like playing on a course with waste bunkers. Ok. That’s a loss for me right off the bat. Whatever. What I think could have been improved on is the feedback. I was told my course was technically executed very well by one and then told there were several major technical flaws throughout 🤣. Ok, I just spent a whole lot of time building this thing, please take the 10 minutes to go in depth and just give me a few examples, would love to hear it. Rookie judges in the top competition was a recipe for disaster from the start. From experience, I can tell you that assembling judging panels for these things is becoming increasingly difficult and I'm not sure how sustainable the current model is. As such, it's important to bring new people into the process, especially if they're enthusiastic! Having said that, I plan on starting a discussion for possible new policies once we've all had a little time to decompress. |
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Post by b101 on Feb 18, 2020 10:17:34 GMT -5
I get that. And we should all be grateful that the judges were willing to sacrifice their own time and go through all the courses. I’m not upset at any result. People will always have different preferences. I had a judge who didn’t like playing on a course with waste bunkers. Ok. That’s a loss for me right off the bat. Whatever. What I think could have been improved on is the feedback. I was told my course was technically executed very well by one and then told there were several major technical flaws throughout 🤣. Ok, I just spent a whole lot of time building this thing, please take the 10 minutes to go in depth and just give me a few examples, would love to hear it. Rookie judges in the top competition was a recipe for disaster from the start. From experience, I can tell you that assembling judging panels for these things is becoming increasingly difficult and I'm not sure how sustainable the current model is. As such, it's important to bring new people into the process, especially if they're enthusiastic! Having said that, I plan on starting a discussion for possible new policies once we've all had a little time to decompress. At this stage, I can’t see what to do other than something like: for every three you enter, you must offer to judge one. As I recommended to the Rookie guys this year, to all those WC competitors who haven’t yet judged, please, please offer for Major or CC - it’s a great experience, can be way more fun than you anticipate and you learn a huge amount about what others look for in course design. Dave, Justin, all the other judges - thanks for all you are doing and continue to do. Having read all the comments across all groups, I’ve been thinking a lot about this today and the only thing I think I would suggest is please try to think what the designer was trying to accomplish rather than looking to impose your idea of what the course should look like on the judging. Did we intend it to be hard, easy, a specific look etc? As RJM rightly says, if you go in hating waste bunkers, elevation change or bunkers cutting into greens and don’t try to understand why, what can we do? If you go in judging the course for what it’s trying to be, we will have a really good contest. At the end of the day, I honestly understand how tough this is. Just felt some courses were judged by what they weren’t rather than what they were. |
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