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Post by CiB0RG on Sept 12, 2019 8:16:16 GMT -5
with that being said, can someone explain to me how this course; A) won a competition and B) was deemed tour worthy? there are at least 5 holes with illegal pin locations, at least how i understand it in the database rules. idk who the designer is, but i can only assume its someone in the "in crowd" that every claims to not know exists on here. seeing stuff like this, and then knowing how much time i put into play testing and redesigning my rookie course, because of pin locations is a huge demoralizer for the effort put in. i could have just left pins 2 yards from the fairway, and on yellow slopes and save myself 50 play tests and hours of time. the course is actually interesting, but i just dont get this whole "well this is johns course and its awesome" mentality in this community. Yup all 14 community members behind the scenes were brainwashed from the beginning to manipulate hundreds of pieces of data through 4 focused rounds of detailed scoring and spent months ahead of time calculating the exact inputs they would need to give all the courses in each round to ensure that "john" was the winner but in doing so, still make it look like it was a tight race at the top. It's rather funny that they would spend hundreds of combined hours playing, debating, scoring and calculating when the winner was preconceived from the beginning! Crazy, Right?!?!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 8:22:13 GMT -5
I always find it funny when people question why the course was tour worthy or that it won a competition. St. Cyrus is a fantastic course and while it is difficult it is most definitely fair and there are no illegal pins to be found, at least from what i have seen.
If a pin is close to the front for example then why not play for a slightly longer putt instead of wanting to stick it to 2 feet. Sometimes you have to go with the safer option. I think it is great design and as much as i love flag hunting i also love strategic courses too. There is a place for them all.
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Post by Terry Grayson on Sept 12, 2019 11:04:42 GMT -5
Just a question and Ill retire to the nerdery
Who is the "IN CROWD" folks reference sometimes?
Who created, the In Crowd? Is there an entrance fee? An Initiation? Application Process? Who are the current members? Yearly dues like a homeowners association?
Who would one become a member of the IN CROWD?
Thanks for any responses ahead of time
Terry
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Post by ohheycat on Sept 12, 2019 11:16:58 GMT -5
St Cyrus set itself apart by forcing you play a different kind of golf. Some people will love that style, others won't, as with anything. But course bashing and accusations of biased judging is way out of line.
I am on the panel for the rookie comp and if there is any bias I will be sure to let you know
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Post by yaters on Sept 12, 2019 13:21:35 GMT -5
Just a question and Ill retire to the nerdery Who is the "IN CROWD" folks reference sometimes? Who created, the In Crowd? Is there an entrance fee? An Initiation? Application Process? Who are the current members? Yearly dues like a homeowners association? Who would one become a member of the IN CROWD? Thanks for any responses ahead of time Terry It's the people that are friendly to each other and enjoy the community. Maybe in some ways it can appear cliquish, but as with any old group of friends, there are moments of inside jokes or ball-busting or "hey let's invite so-and-so to participate" Just my perspective, but those calling out an "in" group aren't generally friendly. They tend to be drama queens or just argue all the time. These are the keyboard warriors that "tell it like it is" and are "not going to back down." They hijack threads with accusations or conspiracy theories. They refresh pages over and over waiting for responses to what they think is unflappable logic. They are kind of rude but don't really care. Sometimes they cross lines and get banned. Other times they just hang around as a nuisance claiming we all just don't get their point. They wake up every day wondering what they can get angry about instead of how they can contribute. I'll get blasted for posting this because I am using generalizations (on purpose). It's difficult not to get sucked into their tripe. But, like with real life, you just learn to accept that any large group of people is going to have different views and approaches. Nothing new.
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Post by katana22 on Sept 12, 2019 13:55:33 GMT -5
What a fabulous course. Shaping shots and knowing exact loft, deloft, and side spin mappings are a must. R1 -15, R2 -15, R3 -18, R4 -14, totaling -62. On a side note, there seems to be quite a bit of frustration at some of us scoring well on this tour. Before coming to BCT, it was my understanding that this was in fact, not a beginner tour, but a place where many Sharks played and competed. That's precisely what I was looking for; expert users fighting on the golf course using beginner clubs (with exact wind!!!). Apparently not everyone holds this view!! My goal was NEVER aimed at taking advantage of players below my skill level. So what now? I have no desire to frustrate people, nor any aspirations to take the fun away of others trying to compete. I am gladly, with no discontent, removing myself from BCT after this tournament is over. Everyone is entitled to play on a tour where they feel they fit in and have a legitimate chance to win. I have no right to take that away from anyone. Cheers and good luck ;D!!!!! i know this was covertly aimed at me as you were in a twitch chat i was in earlier, so i will reply to it.
nah man, stay. about to pass around a petition to get Rawsey and other top players on this tour as well. I want to see the top 20 littered with -60+ scores. And we are all aware this isnt a "beginner tour", no one has said that or even implied it. the issue I, and others have, is that people are coming from top flight tours, where they never broke 60, and now randomly win almost every event. just look at last season in the BCT, new winners every week, a bunch of different winners, then suddenly its dominated by the same 3 or 4 dudes who decided to join the BCT on a whim. As for the "competition", there is competition on every tour here, its the level of competition you are after. and im curious, what competition are you looking for by shooting -62? the one other person in this tour that MAY match it with the perfect rounds? and we dont even care as much about the scores, as the rhetoric behind the scenes with the "this is tricky, this is tough, missed some putts" but then shoot a -62. when we miss putts, we shoot a -30 if we are lucky, so we dont want to hear about some guy who, ONE TIME, didnt hit his ball inch perfect and missed ONE putt out of 22. so, its either leave the forum and not try to be part of the community, in the tour we are playing in, or see the same stuff every week by the same players.
if you joined this for the reasons you say, then why leave after blowing everyone away the first event? seems to go a little deeper than "competition with sharks" IMO.
Tott may I ask why it's the guys that come down from the Top flights as you put that have or should move, why isn't the onus on the beginner's to move up to the beginner flight's such as CC-Z or G no (offense to anyone in those flights). Like I have said before there are a lot of guys here who are more than willing to help why not reach out to them for help or advice like I did? Before I go lets make sure we have our facts straight as well people were shooting -50 plus in this flight a long time before those guys even became a part of BCT and I have the facts to prove that. WEEK DATES TOURNAMENT COURSE CHAMPION Results 5 12/03 - 12/08 Fedex Express Invitational Orchard Lake (Members) J. McCord -47 6 12/10 - 12/15 Fighting Irish Invitational The Club at Pelion Marsh W. Dean -44 7 12/17 - 12/22 Eli's Tournament Ute Forrest Country Club J. Fairbrother -52 8 12/24 - 12/29 Cigar City Classic The Club @ Spion Knop W. Dean -47 9 12/31 - 1/05 Sandbagger Shootout Blunderbuss T. Wiltshire -58 10 1/07 - 1/12 The Goldman Sachs Invitational hosted by Rich Banker Maeze Park (North) N. Mielke -54 11 1/14 - 1/19 The Vic Campbell Classic at Campbells Run Campbells Run (Tour) M. Codman -55 12 1/21 - 1/26 The Bob Ross Happy Trees Tournament Plains of Africa Tour ED G. Stock -53 13 1/28 - 2/02 Fairway To Heaven Invitational Turnbridge CC (Members) C. Hull -48 14 2/04 - 2/09 Johnny McPhee's Challenge Trophee Blue Maiden G&CC (tour) N. Mielke -41 15 2/11 - 2/16 Kaitlyn Jenner Crosstown Classic Gateway at Kass Mountain G. Stock -30 16 2/18 - 2/23 EA Sports Pay to Win DLC Classic Aristida Dunes Club J. Kopra -34 17 2/25 - 3/02 The Invicta Challenge Rosarito Bay Golf Club J. McCord -36 18 3/04 - 3/09 The Golf4All Memorial Cup Fair Oaks Ranch G.C. T. Pickering -47 19 3/11 - 3/16 Nick Skelton Seniors Championship The Wolf at Copper Lake C. Rogers -35 20 3/18 - 3/23 The Apprentices Classic River Islands (CC) J. Kopra -40 21 3/25 - 3/30 Drive for Show Putt for Dough Open Championship Fairways Of Mt Garibaldi J. McCord -40 22 4/01 - 4/06 The Masters Tournament Qualifying Magnolia National (Tour) W. Dean -36 23 4/08 - 4/13 Rumblefish Open Irvine Knolls W. Hazard -51 24 4/15 - 4/20 Beau's Brewing Company Tapped Keg Open Walton Golf Copper Creek W. Hazard -60 25 4/22 - 4/27 Payne Stewart Memorial Valley Glenn GC J. McCord -45 So I'm not sure how getting rid of these guys is going to make it any more competitive, enjoyable or easier. I'm not try to have a go at ya mate but simply pointing out that the scoring on this tour has always been low, real low. All of the above scores were before those Top flight guys came down.
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Post by tottenhamordie on Sept 12, 2019 13:56:59 GMT -5
Just a question and Ill retire to the nerdery Who is the "IN CROWD" folks reference sometimes? Who created, the In Crowd? Is there an entrance fee? An Initiation? Application Process? Who are the current members? Yearly dues like a homeowners association? Who would one become a member of the IN CROWD? Thanks for any responses ahead of time Terry It's the people that are friendly to each other and enjoy the community. Maybe in some ways it can appear cliquish, but as with any old group of friends, there are moments of inside jokes or ball-busting or "hey let's invite so-and-so to participate" Just my perspective, but those calling out an "in" group aren't generally friendly. They tend to be drama queens or just argue all the time. These are the keyboard warriors that "tell it like it is" and are "not going to back down." They hijack threads with accusations or conspiracy theories. They refresh pages over and over waiting for responses to what they think is unflappable logic. They are kind of rude but don't really care. Sometimes they cross lines and get banned. Other times they just hang around as a nuisance claiming we all just don't get their point. They wake up every day wondering what they can get angry about instead of how they can contribute. I'll get blasted for posting this because I am using generalizations (on purpose). It's difficult not to get sucked into their tripe. But, like with real life, you just learn to accept that any large group of people is going to have different views and approaches. Nothing new. That's really "generalized", when you're basically talking about me lol. Perfect example of this passive aggressive, clever wording so you can hide behind it as "no I wasn't talking about you". I don't sit here and refresh the page, hence why it's 2pm the next day and I'm just seeing this. As for "keyboard warrior", I would say any of this, to anyone, face to face. I don't need a keyboard to tell it like it is. Ironically I can see those who use passive aggressive statements as being the actual keyboard warrior, becauae I can tell by the way you act, that you would be quiet as a church mouse in real life. As for the "in crowd", it was sort of a joke, but sort of not. I'm not the only one who has noticed this buddy buddy, call each other by our first names group in this community. The same guys who always seem to be at the top on competitions, the same guys who are always organising something, the same guys who make sure their friends are included in things they never showed interest in. As for the course, I never said it was a bad course. I even said it was interesting to play. I was asking how it won a contest and got tour approved soley based on pin positions. It doesn't matter if you are looking at the pin from the fairway, the green, or outer space, there will always be a yellow square one box from the pin. I never said the contest was rigged, I NEVER said it was judged with bias. Again, if you could read longer than 2 seconds, and then jump to reply, you'd know that. When I said "oh this is johns course, it's awesome", that's in reference to this community, who never seem to notice anything wrong with a course, and always throw in the designers name like that makes it an automatic great course. I'll point back to the most recent design competition, it seemed as though people were pretty bent over the outcome. Seeing clear winning courses being thrown out early, or not making a certain cut. And then surprise by the winning one, over others that were better in their own ways. Again, not saying everyone got together and said "this is the course I want to win because of *insert name*". But to sit there and act so shocked over the "in crowd" banter, when I and others have seen it first hand just over the last few weeks of dealing with different people in the community, just shows we won't agree. And that's fine, like you said, what did I expect? Someone to actually have the balls to admit it? Or did I expect the same sarcasm and people to play dumb like they don't know? Ya more like the latter. This wasn't started to bash my opinions over someone's head until they submit. Most of my posts are me repeating myself because people apparently cant read, or comprehend the point. They jusy copy paste the same "this isn't a beginner tour", "sorry i shoot low, I'll just leave this tour", which is no where near the point I was making. I'm also not posting it here looking for a fight, much like the BCT cup thread, I did this as a public record for anyone else with the same issue. Since I have talked to numerous people in both the BCT cup and the beginner club tour, who share the same issues, but don't want to come to the forum to voice it. So I'll be that a****le, who does, because at the end of the day, you're right, I don't care. I say what I mean, and mean what I say, it's just a culture shock here in a sea of "great job man" and not ONE, ONE, negative comment to ever be found. I'm done with this. I'll just play my rounds and stop coming here. It's a shame that some of us cant, or don't want to come here because of issues discussed here, when all we want is to follow the events on the tour we play in, crazy right? Who would've thought people want to feel encouraged when checking out this week event? As opposed to seeing humble brags over ungodly scores. Have a great day.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 14:03:05 GMT -5
Give me bloody strength.
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Post by ohheycat on Sept 12, 2019 14:11:19 GMT -5
You say you didn't mean what literally everybody thought you did so, if true, you might choose your words more carefully? It seems like everyone who responded heard the same thing which is apparently not what you said.
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Post by tottenhamordie on Sept 12, 2019 14:19:55 GMT -5
why does it matter, you will just delete everything in a week any way...
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Post by tottenhamordie on Sept 12, 2019 14:21:04 GMT -5
You say you didn't mean what literally everybody thought you did so, if true, you might choose your words more carefully? It seems like everyone who responded heard the same thing which is apparently not what you said.
i didnt mean what? need to be a little specific as there are like 5 different points being made here at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 14:29:40 GMT -5
why does it matter, you will just delete everything in a week any way...
It matters because i don't like the way you talk about the "buddy buddy" thing.
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Post by jacobkessler on Sept 12, 2019 16:01:08 GMT -5
Any of you guys who know me know that I schedule CC am with BCT in mind... there are weeks where it trends towards the CC side of things, and other weeks where it trends towards the BCT side of things . The winner of the CC contest has always been slated to host week 1 on both tours. I wouldn't necessarily have scheduled this for Am otherwise, so this is a CC week, especially given the conditions that Dan and I agreed on. There will be conditions and courses that fit the bct well in the future Oh yeah, I know you guys put a lot of work into this and all of us here appreciate. Part of mine was just post-round anger from sucking at this game. Really my only actual issue was with a bunch of pins being tucked right at the front of a green or behind a bunker, but another part of that was that I can be too aggressive at times and need to just play it safe to the middle of the green. Anyways, carry on!
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Post by TheDominator273 on Sept 12, 2019 16:12:48 GMT -5
with that being said, can someone explain to me how this course; A) won a competition and B) was deemed tour worthy? there are at least 5 holes with illegal pin locations, at least how i understand it in the database rules. idk who the designer is, but i can only assume its someone in the "in crowd" that every claims to not know exists on here. seeing stuff like this, and then knowing how much time i put into play testing and redesigning my rookie course, because of pin locations is a huge demoralizer for the effort put in. i could have just left pins 2 yards from the fairway, and on yellow slopes and save myself 50 play tests and hours of time. the course is actually interesting, but i just dont get this whole "well this is johns course and its awesome" mentality in this community. Yup all 14 community members behind the scenes were brainwashed from the beginning to manipulate hundreds of pieces of data through 4 focused rounds of detailed scoring and spent months ahead of time calculating the exact inputs they would need to give all the courses in each round to ensure that "john" was the winner but in doing so, still make it look like it was a tight race at the top. It's rather funny that they would spend hundreds of combined hours playing, debating, scoring and calculating when the winner was preconceived from the beginning! Crazy, Right?!?! That explains why my 18 holes just needing planting got corrupted 20 days before the contest deadline.
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Post by jacobkessler on Sept 12, 2019 16:19:39 GMT -5
Me in this thread right now: Anyways, round 3 is in the books. Bleh. That pretty much describes it.
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