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Flicking
Sept 8, 2019 7:06:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ohheycat on Sept 8, 2019 7:06:43 GMT -5
If everybody hates flicking and think it's not fair and too easy . . . . why don't you flick. Maybe flickers are doing it right and non-flickers are doing it wrong. Just sayin. Is there a written rule somewhere on the proper way to use a control? I don't remember seeing one. That's what I used to think!
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Post by mrohde4 on Sept 8, 2019 7:34:43 GMT -5
If everybody hates flicking and think it's not fair and too easy . . . . why don't you flick. Maybe flickers are doing it right and non-flickers are doing it wrong. Just sayin. Is there a written rule somewhere on the proper way to use a control? I don't remember seeing one. Is this a serious question? I kindly suggest you read the first page of this thread where it’s explained how flicking exponentially increases a player’s chances of failing the API. You liked my post about it. The admins warned to flick at your own risk, and many flickers failed the API more than once last season. Maybe, just maybe, some players don’t want to use an artificially advantageous method that produces non-human results that could also get you disqualified. Kind of like an honor thing? In 2019 is that backwards thinking? Many medium players believe you have to either flick or not compete, which is sad. But results don’t lie. Just trying to remain optimistic something will change, but this affects so few that many don’t realize the problem or take the time to understand.
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Post by GW_Hope on Sept 8, 2019 8:43:41 GMT -5
Yes, it’s a quandary. Let me ask you this, would you use rubber bands or a straight edge if it was legal?
Well, there is nothing in the fair play policy that says you can’t. Just have to pass the API. And if you fail just come back next week and try it again. So I will leave it at that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 8:50:48 GMT -5
If everybody hates flicking and think it's not fair and too easy . . . . why don't you flick. Maybe flickers are doing it right and non-flickers are doing it wrong. Just sayin. Is there a written rule somewhere on the proper way to use a control? I don't remember seeing one. Is this a serious question? I kindly suggest you read the first page of this thread where it’s explained how flicking exponentially increases a player’s chances of failing the API. You liked my post about it. The admins warned to flick at your own risk, and many flickers failed the API more than once last season. Maybe, just maybe, some players don’t want to use an artificially advantageous method that produces non-human results that could also get you disqualified. Kind of like an honor thing? In 2019 is that backwards thinking? Many medium players believe you have to either flick or not compete, which is sad. But results don’t lie. Just trying to remain optimistic something will change, but this affects so few that many don’t realize the problem or take the time to understand. When TGC2 came out my swing was all over the place so I tried using an old controller that had been collecting dust for years and was hitting shots virtually straight every time in one of the pre season exhibition events. I sent Doyley a message asking if that controller was good to use and he replied that it was in the grey area where 1 week it would pass and another it would fail. I didn't to have an advantage over someone else or risk flirting with the API so I never used that controller again.Seems as though not everyone has the same mindset, but I'd rather be missing cuts every week than knowing I screwed someone else by using an exploit. Its no different to me than super lofting or creeper flopping in TGC1 or having 3 ghost balls to scout cam in on to see where to land or if a drive will clear water or not. Maybe I'm just an idiot for playing that way?
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Flicking
Sept 8, 2019 15:07:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by LKeet6 on Sept 8, 2019 15:07:50 GMT -5
If everybody hates flicking and think it's not fair and too easy . . . . why don't you flick. Maybe flickers are doing it right and non-flickers are doing it wrong. Just sayin. Is there a written rule somewhere on the proper way to use a control? I don't remember seeing one. It would seem clear to me that, in trying to replicate a FULL golf swing in a golf sim game, the makers of the game would use a FULL stick swing?? When you then see that a full stick swing can produce misshits, which happen in real life, and a flick does NOT produce misshits, that the flick is gaming the system, is unfair, and is "wrong??" I'm not sure why you'd think it might be the other way round, other than some obtuse theoretical position.
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Flicking
Sept 8, 2019 15:41:40 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ohheycat on Sept 8, 2019 15:41:40 GMT -5
If everybody hates flicking and think it's not fair and too easy . . . . why don't you flick. Maybe flickers are doing it right and non-flickers are doing it wrong. Just sayin. Is there a written rule somewhere on the proper way to use a control? I don't remember seeing one. It would seem clear to me that, in trying to replicate a FULL golf swing in a golf sim game, the makers of the game would use a FULL stick swing?? When you then see that a full stick swing can produce misshits, which happen in real life, and a flick does NOT produce misshits, that the flick is gaming the system, is unfair, and is "wrong??" I'm not sure why you'd think it might be the other way round, other than some obtuse theoretical position. I agree the flick is an advantage, but I can go back to my q school videos a week after I purchased the game and I've always played that way. It's unfortunate that the game gives the swing an advantage, but I think it's a game problem rather than a player problem. I'll give 2 reasons that shape that opinion for me. 1) this swing did not cause problems in tgc1/2. A few players on the pga experienced api problems only in 2019 despite making no changes to their swing, and 2) hitting the top plastic does not guarantee a full swing readout, it must be held at the top, though only for a split second, for maximum flag potential. Otherwise the feedback will show the path back down to center that the controller spring us actually in control of. I've probably thought about this too much but we really need more information to fully understand the advantage gained. An example, multiple data points per swing are collected and used to determine outcome, yet only 1 of those points per shot seems to be in the charts I've seen. If its only the last point in the sequence, then it simply shows how fast a controller can return to center and isn't an indicator of the swing at all. Such is my theory, and supports my notion that this is an unfortunate problem with the game that we shouldn't necessarilly be chastising people over. This flick swing thing sucks, sure, but it's all on hb. Before you ream me remember that I'm no longer playing in the top flights because of these opinions about the game. Still interested in the discussion though
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Post by LKeet6 on Sept 8, 2019 15:53:01 GMT -5
It would seem clear to me that, in trying to replicate a FULL golf swing in a golf sim game, the makers of the game would use a FULL stick swing?? When you then see that a full stick swing can produce misshits, which happen in real life, and a flick does NOT produce misshits, that the flick is gaming the system, is unfair, and is "wrong??" I'm not sure why you'd think it might be the other way round, other than some obtuse theoretical position. I agree the flick is an advantage, but I can go back to my q school videos a week after I purchased the game and I've always played that way. It's unfortunate that the game gives the swing an advantage, but I think it's a game problem rather than a player problem. I'll give 2 reasons that shape that opinion for me. 1) this swing did not cause problems in tgc1/2. A few players on the pga experienced api problems only in 2019 despite making no changes to their swing, and 2) hitting the top plastic does not guarantee a full swing readout, it must be held at the top, though only for a split second, for maximum flag potential. Otherwise the feedback will show the path back down to center that the controller spring us actually in control of. I've probably thought about this too much but we really need more information to fully understand the advantage gained. An example, multiple data points per swing are collected and used to determine outcome, yet only 1 of those points per shot seems to be in the charts I've seen. If its only the last point in the sequence, then it simply shows how fast a controller can return to center and isn't an indicator of the swing at all. Such is my theory, and supports my notion that this is an unfortunate problem with the game that we shouldn't necessarilly be chastising people over. This flick swing thing sucks, sure, but it's all on hb. Before you ream me remember that I'm no longer playing in the top flights because of these opinions about the game. Still interested in the discussion though I'm not going to ream you, and I'm interested in your experience/opinion, but I don't really see how that's a reply to what I said. As far as I'm concerned, the way you are "supposed" to play the game is clear. It's a replication of the real life golf swing. Some don't want to game the system, and want to play the game as intended, as a simulation of real golf, and others want their name to appear at the top of a list. If there are people out there who think the flick is how you're supposed to play it, fair enough I guess, I disagree. I agree HB has programmed a design flaw, people don't HAVE to use it tho. Of course there will always be some who do, and I resent those people...
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 11, 2019 4:25:21 GMT -5
If everybody hates flicking and think it's not fair and too easy . . . . why don't you flick. Maybe flickers are doing it right and non-flickers are doing it wrong. Just sayin. Is there a written rule somewhere on the proper way to use a control? I don't remember seeing one. There's not, but there's an unwritten rule, than when a particular way of playing is CLEARLY advantaging you over the competition, then you should be altering the way you play, just out of common decency and a respect for your fellow competitors, at the pinnacle of the game, this is most infuriating, but these values are surely, instilled in us all somewhere, no? A lot of people like the challenge of the game as it was intended to be played, some like to see their name up in lights regardless... Here's a little example of why it's so retarded: - A short swing, leaves the blue feedback line on the left
- A full swing leaves the blue feedback line on the left.
Now any sane person would think that both those balls would be pulled left? Wouldn't they? Well, not the short swing ball, which squirts marginally, marginally right. The long swing goes considerably offline, to the left, as intended by design. When you add extremities of loft into the equation, this exacerbates the deviation with the full swing - but you guessed it, not the short swing, where the reliance upon a slight push to the right is the only thing to worry about. To add, and this has been covered a LOT, if you are an accurate full swinger, if you can regularly produce a full swing that is good and straight, if you flick, you're highly likely to get DQ'd, as the base accuracy of your swing, which is fairly repeatable, is essentially stopped short of travelling to the point where it could give you any sort of variance that the API could consider "human". You will marginally push everything right, a minuscule deviation, but as your swing is so good to begin with, that deviation is too small to be accepted by the API (not like some of the swashbuckling heroes we have on PGA that fly under the radar). Admin warned against using it at the start of last season - Use it at your own risk - yet people still get surprised when they get DQ'd doing it today. It's a complete, and utter crutch.
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 11, 2019 4:30:13 GMT -5
Ha... I didn't read all the previous replies before I typed that... Seems to be some synergy!
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 11, 2019 8:02:05 GMT -5
Flicking is primarily a PS4 thing. It's near impossible to do on a PC with an XB1 controller and certainly not possible to do with a mouse so it's certainly short-sighted to imply flickers are doing it right. Everyone would have to play on PS4 for that to be true.
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Post by ksmith851 on Sept 11, 2019 9:25:28 GMT -5
Flicking is primarily a PS4 thing. It's near impossible to do on a PC with an XB1 controller and certainly not possible to do with a mouse so it's certainly short-sighted to imply flickers are doing it right. Everyone would have to play on PS4 for that to be true. FYI, I watched a stream just now with a XB1 flicker so it is certainly possible.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 11, 2019 9:31:20 GMT -5
Flicking is primarily a PS4 thing. It's near impossible to do on a PC with an XB1 controller and certainly not possible to do with a mouse so it's certainly short-sighted to imply flickers are doing it right. Everyone would have to play on PS4 for that to be true. FYI, I watched a stream just now with a XB1 flicker so it is certainly possible. It's definitely possible on XB. I don't think it is possible on PC and that's what I said. I will say, it's much more rare on XB, though. Much, much more rare.
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 11, 2019 10:06:32 GMT -5
Have you ever tried a DS4 on PC Jeff?
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 11, 2019 12:00:07 GMT -5
Have you ever tried a DS4 on PC Jeff? I tried one, but never tried flicking with it. I doubt it's possible because it's the timing sensitivity on PC that gets screwed up when you flick. But maybe someone who is more used to flicking would be better suited to run that test.
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Post by PMGS247 on Sept 11, 2019 13:26:30 GMT -5
I'm still trying to wrap my head around what a flick is. Not from a short swingline perspective, I get that, I get a line short of the top one out of every 10-15 shots I'd say and based on what I've read that's not uncommon....I mean the actual physical motion with your thumb on stick.
I "flick" the stick upwards with my thumb, but always make plastic to plastic contact before letting go. It's a continuous motion with my thumb upward, leaving the stick behind when it clicks at its stopping point at the top. Most of the time this is a full swing line on the screen, although as I said, some small percentage of the time it does result in a swing line that is short of the top...I would not say those shots are any straighter than the rest, though. PGA player, on TGCtours since 2014, not one single API issue in 5 years, including playing 80% of the events so far this year, so I'm doubtful that I'm the problem, but since I would still describe my swing motion as a flick, I want to understand the difference between what I'm doing and what those who are having API issues are doing.
Someone mentioned something to the effect of letting the spring motion complete the downswing. Does that mean it's pulling the stick back and letting go which registers as a swing? That happens to me unintentionally on putts sometimes. I do rehearsal backswings on putts...pull back/let go, pull back/let go....I do that a couple times to get a feel for speed and sometimes the "let go" part registers as a downswing. It's quite rare (once every 3-4 rounds? maybe even less) but it happens, especially on longer putts with longer backswings. It's HORRIBLE on the putting green, without fail the putt registers way too much power...I've even taken to going into practice swing mode for rehearsals just to avoid the rare occurrence after it happened a few times in a single round recently, but I've never seen it happen on a full swing. I don't take rehearsal backswings on full shots though. Is this what's going on with people's full swings?
Edit: Do I fear lofting up/down? Yes. Terrified. My proximity to the hole plummets with any more than a couple clicks.
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