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Post by Riotous on Aug 14, 2019 4:04:15 GMT -5
Still pretty new on tour and just stepped up to using Master clubs for last weeks event, after not being able to get neat some of this weeks Par 5’s in 2, I’m starting to think perfect perfect for drives isn’t good enough and the ability to hit fast fast etc is my next step.
This might be a rookie question but do you aim for p/p ? Do you high graders use f/f regularly?
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Post by rob4590 on Aug 14, 2019 4:20:35 GMT -5
Depends on the individual circumstances - do you need an extra 5-10 yards carry to make it over a bunker - then aim for F/F or F/P or F/S? Do you need extra yardage to get up at a par 5 - aim for F/F,F/S F/P? Moreso F/P for me (as my natural swing tends to deviate towards that anyway) However - being able to reach a par 5 in 2 isn't always the most sensible play - it's easier to get up and down from short, than it is to lag a 95ft putt close......course management is still needed.
Also - don't forget that lofting up on woods can give big gains too - but only downwind (or crosswind). Lofting down can give you a little extra into the wind (As the ball flies lower - and then may run slightly more)
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 14, 2019 7:12:26 GMT -5
This is the kind of nuance that makes me understand some time ago that my idea to use pro clubs on tour and master clubs to practice was not a so good idea. I mean : using every club, you should always try to hit a P/P. But is not always the best option, depending the circumstances and the exact distance you need to reach. First of all, consider that, inside the blue line that shows if you hit a P/P, there is a first nuance. If you hit the bottom part of that blue line, you have the chance to lose even 2-3 meters (depending the clubs, obviously) when it can be useful. The same for the upper part of the blue line. My standard swing with pro clubs, for example, is intended when the arrow stops exactly between the end of the PP range and the start of a fast downswing. Obviously if I keep this swing using master clubs, I would have constant fast downswing. So said, as a second nuance, consider that basically, the best thing to do for me, if you need to lose or gain some distance, is to work on your backswing, cause it affects almost nothing the direction of your ball. But the window in which you have to work is really little. If you accelerate to much the release, you can obtain a 95% downswing, instead than a 100% and Fast downswing. Conversely, if you wait too much for your downswing, your ball can lose an enormous amount of distance. It requires practice, but I can assure to you that one of the reasons why I improved my medium scores so much, in this last month of play and practice, is for sure this. If you find a way to master this thing, it will pay dividends almost immediately.  |
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Post by humanecentipede on Aug 30, 2019 0:06:03 GMT -5
I would wager that most players use F/F swings regularly, and I certainly use them every round. You should absolutely try to learn F/F swings with some consistency, it's crucial on long par 4s and 5s and 200+ yard shots where you find yourself between clubs. No one can have every distance between 200 and 250yds covered.
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Post by wedgely on Sept 9, 2019 13:05:43 GMT -5
I would wager that most players use F/F swings regularly, and I certainly use them every round. You should absolutely try to learn F/F swings with some consistency, it's crucial on long par 4s and 5s and 200+ yard shots where you find yourself between clubs. No one can have every distance between 200 and 250yds covered. Do F/F swings carry farther than F/P? |
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Post by ohheycat on Sept 9, 2019 14:02:34 GMT -5
I would wager that most players use F/F swings regularly, and I certainly use them every round. You should absolutely try to learn F/F swings with some consistency, it's crucial on long par 4s and 5s and 200+ yard shots where you find yourself between clubs. No one can have every distance between 200 and 250yds covered. Do F/F swings carry farther than F/P? Yep |
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Post by mick0210 on Sept 10, 2019 11:41:23 GMT -5
Not for me I rather play with the loft than trying to get f/f.. Then again maybe that's why I'm in Korn ferry and others in PGA 😂
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Post by grinder12000 on Sept 12, 2019 8:21:19 GMT -5
Lofting a wood only gets you a couple extra yards from my experimenting.
why would anybody try for anything but p/p. Makes no sense to me. You lose so much accuracy and the yards gained do not mean that much off the tee.
Stay with p/p until you get a few thousand p/p under you belt I seem to outdrive most people with p/p and very very few players use anything fast in the challenge circuits on purpose
so yes P/P is all you need
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Post by ksmith851 on Sept 12, 2019 9:28:14 GMT -5
Lofting a wood only gets you a couple extra yards from my experimenting. why would anybody try for anything but p/p. Makes no sense to me. You lose so much accuracy and the yards gained do not mean that much off the tee. Stay with p/p until you get a few thousand p/p under you belt I seem to outdrive most people with p/p and very very few players use anything fast in the challenge circuits on purpose so yes P/P is all you need I generally agree, in the CC ranks, the courses aren't long enough to warrant a F/F attempt from me. I try the PGA events for fun sometimes and those courses can be very long, and I can see why F/F may make it easier if you can be consistent with it. The only time I purposely don't go for P/P is when I am in between my 2W and longest iron (I carried 3-iron as my longest for a bit, but have since added the 1-iron back). I find S/P isn't too hard to get with the 2W and is useful if your P/P 2w will land you on the back on the green on the fly. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 12, 2019 10:13:59 GMT -5
Lofting a wood only gets you a couple extra yards from my experimenting. why would anybody try for anything but p/p. Makes no sense to me. You lose so much accuracy and the yards gained do not mean that much off the tee. Stay with p/p until you get a few thousand p/p under you belt I seem to outdrive most people with p/p and very very few players use anything fast in the challenge circuits on purpose so yes P/P is all you need I disagree, personally... maybe PP everywhere works for you, but no way can I be competitive without getting creative. I regularly play for F/F off the tee. Tee game is very forgiving, and if you learn how much a F DS pulls / draws it, it can become second nature. There are so many situations when FF is better than PP... hell, if you catch the right slopes you can out drive people by 60 yds or so meaning plenty of clubs difference into the green. There is absolutely no way that you can get as close as you need by loft box manipulation alone, particularly at the top end of the bag. I'll play plenty of SP shots into longer par 3's to drop back when I'm over clubbed... but mainly, I use the FF off the tee or from the fairway, PF to get to pins / over hazards that I couldn't with a lofted / delofted club and a PP swing alone. You also feel like a swashbuckling superhero when it comes off. |
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Post by grinder12000 on Sept 12, 2019 14:33:04 GMT -5
Lofting a wood only gets you a couple extra yards from my experimenting. why would anybody try for anything but p/p. Makes no sense to me. You lose so much accuracy and the yards gained do not mean that much off the tee. Stay with p/p until you get a few thousand p/p under you belt I seem to outdrive most people with p/p and very very few players use anything fast in the challenge circuits on purpose so yes P/P is all you need I disagree, personally... maybe PP everywhere works for you, but no way can I be competitive without getting creative. I regularly play for F/F off the tee. Tee game is very forgiving, and if you learn how much a F DS pulls / draws it, it can become second nature. There are so many situations when FF is better than PP... hell, if you catch the right slopes you can out drive people by 60 yds or so meaning plenty of clubs difference into the green. There is absolutely no way that you can get as close as you need by loft box manipulation alone, particularly at the top end of the bag. I'll play plenty of SP shots into longer par 3's to drop back when I'm over clubbed... but mainly, I use the FF off the tee or from the fairway, PF to get to pins / over hazards that I couldn't with a lofted / delofted club and a PP swing alone. You also feel like a swashbuckling superhero when it comes off. So you are instructing someone who just joined the tour is in CCC and just started using Master clubs that P/P is not good enough and he is better off using F/F. ? To skip being consistent and just rip it as hard as you can? Even though you are far far more talented then he is. |
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Post by ohheycat on Sept 12, 2019 14:47:52 GMT -5
At the top end of the bag, the distance control options are plentiful. The loft end deloft is effective when the winds are up only and is generally not viable, full deloft can shorten you up if it's not too firm. You can cut distance by drawing and fading reliably if you use a good reference, such as the edge of your screen as I do. And of course adding distance through tempo. The lofting and draw fade options reduce your cone to near nothing, while tempo boosting leaves your cone nice and wide. This is why it's the best option, but for a new player its probably not the best place to start. I think fadge meant was if there's no other way to get it close, you might as well try it. Try it enough and it becomes something you can do pretty reliably
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Post by cseanny on Sept 12, 2019 15:11:16 GMT -5
I agree 100% with Fadge. There are two main philosophies in real golf. Start off very timid, easy, and hit it straight first. Then as you progress, gradually introduce more power. The second, and imo, easily the best choice, is start off swinging with power and eventually learn to reign it in. The latter takes more time and skill to develop, but in the end will far outclass the 1st method. It's akin to a horse, show jumper, doing their best to tame the most aggressive and powerful horse they have ever seen. Once tamed it will outclass it's competition.
Beyond just driver distance, it's a great way to avoid gaps in your bag. I.e., a 4i, on medium firmness, on 165s, with Pp, fully lofted goes 213, Fp 217, and Ff 223. What if you need 221 instead? Easy, hit a Pf dead flat, with no loft. So for all you clubs, once you master the tempo's, you literally have 3 levels of distance control; Pp, Fp, and Ff. Adjusting direction due to a fast is very easy as it remains the same across the board, with every club. Simply add 3 taps of side loft (each tap is the minimum movement possible). Are there people who score very very well with nothing but PP? Absolutely. You can do quite a lot with side spin control with PP, HOWEVER, if they took the time to learn different tempo's in conjunction with side spin they would improve even more.
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 12, 2019 15:43:56 GMT -5
I disagree, personally... maybe PP everywhere works for you, but no way can I be competitive without getting creative. I regularly play for F/F off the tee. Tee game is very forgiving, and if you learn how much a F DS pulls / draws it, it can become second nature. There are so many situations when FF is better than PP... hell, if you catch the right slopes you can out drive people by 60 yds or so meaning plenty of clubs difference into the green. There is absolutely no way that you can get as close as you need by loft box manipulation alone, particularly at the top end of the bag. I'll play plenty of SP shots into longer par 3's to drop back when I'm over clubbed... but mainly, I use the FF off the tee or from the fairway, PF to get to pins / over hazards that I couldn't with a lofted / delofted club and a PP swing alone. You also feel like a swashbuckling superhero when it comes off. So you are instructing someone who just joined the tour is in CCC and just started using Master clubs that P/P is not good enough and he is better off using F/F. ? To skip being consistent and just rip it as hard as you can? Even though you are far far more talented then he is. Read the OP. I responded to you, and answered his query perfectly, from my point of view. If you disagree, that’s fine. He says is the next step to learn FF...? I say yes. If I stick with hitting PP I wouldn’t play where I am today, that’s for sure. If it doesn’t work out for him, the. He can always revert to trying to hit everything PP. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 16:11:19 GMT -5
I go for P/P well over 95% of the time. But in specific circumstances I go for a fast downswing. This is one of them from week 1 of season six:
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