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Post by lessangster on Jul 9, 2019 4:52:20 GMT -5
The last few tournaments I’ve played on the CC Tours we’ve been getting course settings of firm, firm, fast or very firm, very firm, very fast or combinations of with the odd medium thrown in for one round. Is there any chance we could use soft, or slow settings some rounds. I know the slow green setting can cause problems for some but it is a variation you get on a normal golf course. Just lately all we seem to be getting are courses played of the tips with variations of firm/very firm or fast/very fast how about now and again playing rounds on a slightly shorter course that rewards accuracy not length but played under soft/very soft fairways and greens and maybe medium to slow greens.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 9, 2019 9:43:10 GMT -5
I can only speak about courses selected for the Challenge Circuit.
A large majority of the courses that have been published recently were published with max firm and very fast (175+) green speeds. Deviating too much from the defaults can often lead to playability issues or can make a challenging course turn benign, so we have tended to stick to conditions similar to what the defaults are.
Please encourage more designers to build courses using softer, slower default settings in their designs. There is a dearth of that type of course.
I think there is one course we're looking at for CC that has default greens of 153, so you'll probably encounter greens between moderate and fast.
In week 37, CC is playing Portrush alongside The Open, so expect windy conditions.
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Post by cephyn on Jul 9, 2019 9:48:56 GMT -5
The last few tournaments I’ve played on the CC Tours we’ve been getting course settings of firm, firm, fast or very firm, very firm, very fast or combinations of with the odd medium thrown in for one round. Is there any chance we could use soft, or slow settings some rounds. I know the slow green setting can cause problems for some but it is a variation you get on a normal golf course. Just lately all we seem to be getting are courses played of the tips with variations of firm/very firm or fast/very fast how about now and again playing rounds on a slightly shorter course that rewards accuracy not length but played under soft/very soft fairways and greens and maybe medium to slow greens. Any time we play a course on slow/soft settings, people complain about that too. There's no way for these folks to win. As a designer, I design at 187 to try and avoid yellow/red pins under any conditions, and then publish in a non-default 170s since that seems to be what most schedulers want - because players go nuts if green speeds go below about 150.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 9, 2019 10:05:46 GMT -5
I design at 187 to try and avoid yellow/red pins under any conditions, and then publish in a non-default 170s since that seems to be what most schedulers want I do prefer defaults to be set at a value in between two of the pre-sets (101, 119, 144, 163, 187) so that we have more good options when setting up an event, but I would prefer a wider array of speeds. Few courses are published with green speeds below 163, and it is extremely rare that a course is published with a green speed slower than 144. I would love it if there were more courses designed around soft/slow. What I don't want to do is take a course designed for 170+ and slow it down to 119.
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Post by cephyn on Jul 9, 2019 10:10:43 GMT -5
I design at 187 to try and avoid yellow/red pins under any conditions, and then publish in a non-default 170s since that seems to be what most schedulers want I do prefer defaults to be set at a value in between two of the pre-sets (101, 119, 144, 163, 187) so that we have more good options when setting up an event, but I would prefer a wider array of speeds. Few courses are published with green speeds below 163, and it is extremely rare that a course is published with a green speed slower than 144. I would love it if there were more courses designed around soft/slow. What I don't want to do is take a course designed for 170+ and slow it down to 119. And that makes total sense. But also as a designer (and I know you are too) - it seems that if we publish on the low side, players go nuts and the course is immediately not taken seriously. Or if it has big greens, people complain about longer-than-max putts instead of course managing appropriately. There's just no way to win.
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Post by lessangster on Jul 9, 2019 11:16:34 GMT -5
The last few tournaments I’ve played on the CC Tours we’ve been getting course settings of firm, firm, fast or very firm, very firm, very fast or combinations of with the odd medium thrown in for one round. Is there any chance we could use soft, or slow settings some rounds. I know the slow green setting can cause problems for some but it is a variation you get on a normal golf course. Just lately all we seem to be getting are courses played of the tips with variations of firm/very firm or fast/very fast how about now and again playing rounds on a slightly shorter course that rewards accuracy not length but played under soft/very soft fairways and greens and maybe medium to slow greens. Any time we play a course on slow/soft settings, people complain about that too. There's no way for these folks to win. As a designer, I design at 187 to try and avoid yellow/red pins under any conditions, and then publish in a non-default 170s since that seems to be what most schedulers want - because players go nuts if green speeds go below about 150. I know that but there are options for different speeds and they’re not used and I think they should be
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ffrog
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 247
TGCT Name: Dave Richards
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by ffrog on Jul 9, 2019 11:43:58 GMT -5
When I actually get around to finishing and publishing my current work in progress, I’ll make it clear that it plays fine under any conditions (i’ve tested the extremes, so it should be fine), so look out for that one :-)
But default will be halfway between fast/very fast and firm/very firm. My aim is to make a course that stands a chance of getting on tour, and that seems to be a sensible default to choose with that in mind.
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Post by lessangster on Jul 9, 2019 12:01:35 GMT -5
All I’m asking for is one round every now and again NOT every week with soft slow conditions and on a course that you might expect those conditions, the top guys get conditions they like most weeks.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 9, 2019 16:21:21 GMT -5
When I actually get around to finishing and publishing my current work in progress, I’ll make it clear that it plays fine under any conditions (i’ve tested the extremes, so it should be fine), so look out for that one :-) But default will be halfway between fast/very fast and firm/very firm. My aim is to make a course that stands a chance of getting on tour, and that seems to be a sensible default to choose with that in mind. again, speaking for CC only: Our concern with your approach is that the course loses its teeth in soft/slow conditions. The conditions of the course are not a determining factor of whether a course gets on tour; the course's playability is. If your course is soft and slow, but still has some teeth, then it'll be used (assuming it's of good quality). So far, this year, exactly one course had a default green speed less than 144. That is not because we don't like that type of course; it's because that type of course is not available to us.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 3:05:39 GMT -5
A great course can play well in all conditions.
A great player can play well in all conditions.
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Post by grinder12000 on Jul 11, 2019 17:49:13 GMT -5
I would have no problems with this, I also really hate 187 greens for normal weekly tour events. For large, important tournaments bring it on.
Also. What ever happened to schedules that were not so random. Have a front go through. Have greens dry up over the 4 rounds. have then get progressively slower. Have a LITTLE imagination. I feel schedulers are just rolling the dice.
but I could be wrong.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Jul 11, 2019 17:54:16 GMT -5
A great course can play well in all conditions. A great player can play well in all conditions. A great player doesn't stay around in the CC flights for long 😂.
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Post by grinder12000 on Jul 12, 2019 7:54:37 GMT -5
A great course can play well in all conditions. A great player can play well in all conditions. A great player doesn't stay around in the CC flights for long 😂. There are very very few great players it seems
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Post by fransslabak on Jul 12, 2019 8:52:09 GMT -5
All I’m asking for is one round every now and again NOT every week with soft slow conditions and on a course that you might expect those conditions, the top guys get conditions they like most weeks. For what it’s worth, I agree with you, Les. We have had fast and very fast almost every round for weeks and weeks now. A little more variation would be very much appreciated and surely is not too much to ask.
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Post by lessangster on Jul 12, 2019 9:25:03 GMT -5
All I’m asking for is one round every now and again NOT every week with soft slow conditions and on a course that you might expect those conditions, the top guys get conditions they like most weeks. For what it’s worth, I agree with you, Les. We have had fast and very fast almost every round for weeks and weeks now. A little more variation would be very much appreciated and surely is not too much to ask. I tend to fire at the flags so most of the time I’m either chipping or putting from the back of the green, I’m not good at working out how much roll out I’m going to get on fast/very fast but give me soft slow greens and I believe I can score with the best.
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