Post by travish101 on Apr 26, 2019 15:14:49 GMT -5
I posted this in the CC thread but I didn't realize there was a suggestions thread so I'm posting what I said here as well.
First, some background. I'm brand new to this game. The recent Masters tournament on TV got me excited to get a serious golf game and this was clearly the one. Then somehow I found the subreddit for this game and then somehow found this society.
Let me just say that this society/online gaming has the potential to be the best online sports gaming experience hands-down (and likely already is for many players already). I mean, beautiful custom courses, 72-hole tournaments, scoreboards, different leagues based on players' ability so competition is fair, and a generally beautiful and serious golf game?! Good God, this is incredible. Being able to play a solid sports video game in this way would have been unfathomable a few years ago.
However, I want to echo what others have said about CC-Z not being competitive. I know it's already been stated and a lot of people already know, but this really is the biggest issue I think with the organization of this society.
I'm brand new and played my first Q-school just this week. I had played about 10 rounds previously and had played TW golf in my PS2 days so I'm not completely green.
However, I can't begin to tell you how frustrating/disappointing it is to look at the leaderboards for past CC-Z tournaments. After being soooo excited to start playing online against other people with my skill level, I learn that that it's going to be close to impossible to play with people of my skill level unless I commit to spend dozens of hours practicing and honing my game.
Don't get me wrong, the game is great and I'm sure I will get to that point eventually, but is it really asking too much to be able to play against people that have a similar skill level as me when I start out? Isn't that the entire point of having leagues/divisions in the first place, so that things can be somewhat competitive and players are competing against people of their same skill level?
First, there are 200+ people in some CC-Z tournaments. This seems quite high and would likely open up the opportunity to create another league/level, which would automatically help things it would seem (more levels theoretically mean more even competition).
Second, after picking a random Z tournament, the difference between 50th and 150th (50 spots from the top and about 50 spots from the bottom. In other words, your typical above average player in this league and below average player in this league, or the 25th percentile and 75th percentile) in these tournaments is 25 strokes. There is simply no way for beginners to be competitive at all, or feel like they're competing against people similar to them.
On the other hand, let's take a random tournament from another league and compare its competitiveness between the above average and below average player (I think this is a pretty good way to determine parity, instead looking at the highest and lowest score, for instance):
I looked at a random tournament from the D league, which had 169 participants. The 25th percentile shot -24, and the 75th percentile shot -11, for a difference of 13 strokes, which means that the D league is TWICE as competitive as the Z league (again, when looking at the 25th/75th percentile).
A lot of the responses to posts like these are along the lines of "well, if you're shooting +5 for the tournament, you shouldn't be competing." However, this completely misses the point of having leagues in the first place, and also makes the game for newcomers much less enjoyable.
Also, let's be real, we're talking about the Z league. Who really thinks the top two dozen scores in this league should be -20? This is literally supposed to be the bottom league.
I realize players get better as they practice, and there are always going to be really low rounds here and there simply because newbies suddenly find their groove and figure it out (which is also why I looked at the 25th and 75th percentile instead of looking at top and bottom scores, because there are going to be players that become amazing in the Z league, but they shouldn't be in the 25th percentile, they should be in the top 10). But it seems like there has to be a simple solution to this.
Again, I can't emphasize enough how awesome this game and specifically this community/website is. It really does take online sports gaming to a new level. But the entire point of having leagues is to have players of the same/similar skill level competing against each other. It seems like there has to be a solution that can make the CC-Z league more level, thus increasing the excitement and engagement of newbies and people that only play the game a couple hours/week, benefitting the entire community of players.
As far as suggestions, I'm not 100% sure because I am so new, but clearly there are too many top tier players in this league.
Maybe more automatic advancements based on score or placement (you finish in the top 10 in any tournament and you're promoted no matter what).
I've seen suggestions about not being able to be demoted into CC-Z and I like that a lot.
Based on the sheer numbers playing in Z tournaments, it possibly seems like a whole other league could be created, which would automatically create more parity.
Anyways, thanks for reading.
First, some background. I'm brand new to this game. The recent Masters tournament on TV got me excited to get a serious golf game and this was clearly the one. Then somehow I found the subreddit for this game and then somehow found this society.
Let me just say that this society/online gaming has the potential to be the best online sports gaming experience hands-down (and likely already is for many players already). I mean, beautiful custom courses, 72-hole tournaments, scoreboards, different leagues based on players' ability so competition is fair, and a generally beautiful and serious golf game?! Good God, this is incredible. Being able to play a solid sports video game in this way would have been unfathomable a few years ago.
However, I want to echo what others have said about CC-Z not being competitive. I know it's already been stated and a lot of people already know, but this really is the biggest issue I think with the organization of this society.
I'm brand new and played my first Q-school just this week. I had played about 10 rounds previously and had played TW golf in my PS2 days so I'm not completely green.
However, I can't begin to tell you how frustrating/disappointing it is to look at the leaderboards for past CC-Z tournaments. After being soooo excited to start playing online against other people with my skill level, I learn that that it's going to be close to impossible to play with people of my skill level unless I commit to spend dozens of hours practicing and honing my game.
Don't get me wrong, the game is great and I'm sure I will get to that point eventually, but is it really asking too much to be able to play against people that have a similar skill level as me when I start out? Isn't that the entire point of having leagues/divisions in the first place, so that things can be somewhat competitive and players are competing against people of their same skill level?
First, there are 200+ people in some CC-Z tournaments. This seems quite high and would likely open up the opportunity to create another league/level, which would automatically help things it would seem (more levels theoretically mean more even competition).
Second, after picking a random Z tournament, the difference between 50th and 150th (50 spots from the top and about 50 spots from the bottom. In other words, your typical above average player in this league and below average player in this league, or the 25th percentile and 75th percentile) in these tournaments is 25 strokes. There is simply no way for beginners to be competitive at all, or feel like they're competing against people similar to them.
On the other hand, let's take a random tournament from another league and compare its competitiveness between the above average and below average player (I think this is a pretty good way to determine parity, instead looking at the highest and lowest score, for instance):
I looked at a random tournament from the D league, which had 169 participants. The 25th percentile shot -24, and the 75th percentile shot -11, for a difference of 13 strokes, which means that the D league is TWICE as competitive as the Z league (again, when looking at the 25th/75th percentile).
A lot of the responses to posts like these are along the lines of "well, if you're shooting +5 for the tournament, you shouldn't be competing." However, this completely misses the point of having leagues in the first place, and also makes the game for newcomers much less enjoyable.
Also, let's be real, we're talking about the Z league. Who really thinks the top two dozen scores in this league should be -20? This is literally supposed to be the bottom league.
I realize players get better as they practice, and there are always going to be really low rounds here and there simply because newbies suddenly find their groove and figure it out (which is also why I looked at the 25th and 75th percentile instead of looking at top and bottom scores, because there are going to be players that become amazing in the Z league, but they shouldn't be in the 25th percentile, they should be in the top 10). But it seems like there has to be a simple solution to this.
Again, I can't emphasize enough how awesome this game and specifically this community/website is. It really does take online sports gaming to a new level. But the entire point of having leagues is to have players of the same/similar skill level competing against each other. It seems like there has to be a solution that can make the CC-Z league more level, thus increasing the excitement and engagement of newbies and people that only play the game a couple hours/week, benefitting the entire community of players.
As far as suggestions, I'm not 100% sure because I am so new, but clearly there are too many top tier players in this league.
Maybe more automatic advancements based on score or placement (you finish in the top 10 in any tournament and you're promoted no matter what).
I've seen suggestions about not being able to be demoted into CC-Z and I like that a lot.
Based on the sheer numbers playing in Z tournaments, it possibly seems like a whole other league could be created, which would automatically create more parity.
Anyways, thanks for reading.
