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Post by gamesdecent on Sept 30, 2019 19:53:09 GMT -5
Must see footage of Lookout Mountain. I OSMed this a couple months back, not sure if there’s good LIDAR or not, but this is my neck of the woods (and by neck I mean 4 hours away). But only 30 minutes from Sweetens. Can we talk about whether or not it’s really a Raynor though? I feel like it’s a Banks. |
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Post by joegolferg on Oct 1, 2019 2:50:55 GMT -5
Must see footage of Lookout Mountain. I OSMed this a couple months back, not sure if there’s good LIDAR or not, but this is my neck of the woods (and by neck I mean 4 hours away). But only 30 minutes from Sweetens. Can we talk about whether or not it’s really a Raynor though? I feel like it’s a Banks. Obviously, because of Raynors untimely death, Banks ended up finishing many of his projects - including Yale and Fishers Island. Raynor didn't see any of Fishers once he'd routed and drew up the plans for the property. It was pretty much the same at Lookout Mountain but I suppose you're right because apparently, Banks left out over 50 bunkers from the original Raynor plan, so at the initial opening of the course I'd say it was a Raynor/Banks design. Banks still used Raynors routing and plans but with tweaks. After that, other architects came in and did other things that made the course even less of a Raynor. Finally in the late 90's the committee decided to go with a full Raynor restoration which is still ongoing. To do the restoration they brought in Brian Silva (Raynor historian/expert) to oversee the job and the original Raynor plans were being used to make this project possible. The restoration is almost complete but as the course stands now, I would most certainly call it a Raynor much more than a Raynor/Banks as most of the bunkering has been completed and even some green contouring on prominent holes (punchbowl/alps) If you're ever in that area you could also stop off at Black Creek Club which is a Brian Silva course built in the style of Raynor. It has one of the absolute best renditions of the Biarritz template in America and I believe it is open to the public. Looks to be worth the trip. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 12:04:48 GMT -5
Black Creek is private but I'm not exactly sure how so. The people who built it were all really into making it a pure MacRaynor style course, so it might be the kinda thing where you can ask around or perhaps even call the club and see if they will let you on. I found their membership fees/rates a little while ago, perhaps accidentally but not sure, and they're not as high as you might expect (7k nonrefundable initiation, $380ish monthly for up to full family).
UPDATE: Someone has completed the OSM for Black Creek Club...  |
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Post by b101 on Oct 29, 2019 8:11:40 GMT -5
I've been meaning to do this for a while, but kept putting it off - I thought it'd be cool to take a look at some less obvious template holes that we might have come across. For me, that hole is the 3rd - Punchbowl - at my home course, Burnham and Berrow. Worth watching the flyover below: www.burnhamandberrowgolfclub.co.uk/course/course-tour/championship/hole/3/  The more I have gotten into the architecture side of golf, the more I appreciate this hole and its subtleties. It looks so simple, but it's clever in ow there's so many little things that affect how you play it. When I started at Burnham, I would take 3 wood over the two pot bunkers and aim for the middle of the fairway. But it all cambers right to force you to be more aggressive if you want to hold the fairway, so I changed tack and looked to hit a draw into the fairway to work with the angle. But that's difficult... So, I now just hit driver straight at the far bunker and basically play for the rough. Left is absolutely dead in those hills, but wide right is only slightly punishing when the rough isn't up. BUT, that gives you a slightly worse angle into the green and you're coming across a narrow surface and it's totally blind from that angle. For me, the blindness doesn't really bother me and I like playing wedges with a little more cushion, but that's not for everyone. Then there's the other way to play it - when the course hosted the England Amateur recently, the tactic of most players was to simply hit driver dead at the green - if you're accurate enough, it's a real option that brings eagle in, but you could easily lose a ball left or right. And there's then that devilish little swale in front of the green. If you find that, you're pitching on to a green that all slopes away. It's just an amazing hole which is so simple, yet so complex. I have made birdie and bogey from just about everywhere you can hit your tee shot and the hole rewards good shots, particularly approaches. What I love is that the green complex provides all of those options, but the rest of the hole builds back from it to accentuate those choices. So, does anyone else have anything similar? |
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Post by cplampman on Oct 30, 2019 13:09:36 GMT -5
I've been meaning to do this for a while, but kept putting it off - I thought it'd be cool to take a look at some less obvious template holes that we might have come across. For me, that hole is the 3rd - Punchbowl - at my home course, Burnham and Berrow. Worth watching the flyover below: www.burnhamandberrowgolfclub.co.uk/course/course-tour/championship/hole/3/The more I have gotten into the architecture side of golf, the more I appreciate this hole and its subtleties. It looks so simple, but it's clever in ow there's so many little things that affect how you play it. When I started at Burnham, I would take 3 wood over the two pot bunkers and aim for the middle of the fairway. But it all cambers right to force you to be more aggressive if you want to hold the fairway, so I changed tack and looked to hit a draw into the fairway to work with the angle. But that's difficult... So, I now just hit driver straight at the far bunker and basically play for the rough. Left is absolutely dead in those hills, but wide right is only slightly punishing when the rough isn't up. BUT, that gives you a slightly worse angle into the green and you're coming across a narrow surface and it's totally blind from that angle. For me, the blindness doesn't really bother me and I like playing wedges with a little more cushion, but that's not for everyone. Then there's the other way to play it - when the course hosted the England Amateur recently, the tactic of most players was to simply hit driver dead at the green - if you're accurate enough, it's a real option that brings eagle in, but you could easily lose a ball left or right. And there's then that devilish little swale in front of the green. If you find that, you're pitching on to a green that all slopes away. It's just an amazing hole which is so simple, yet so complex. I have made birdie and bogey from just about everywhere you can hit your tee shot and the hole rewards good shots, particularly approaches. What I love is that the green complex provides all of those options, but the rest of the hole builds back from it to accentuate those choices. So, does anyone else have anything similar? Man I need to go on a golf trip overseas. This just looks like so much fun. After seeing the no laying up guys playing in Scotland and Ireland, that true links style golf is on the ole bucket list. |
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Post by rob4590 on Oct 31, 2019 12:34:17 GMT -5
That picture flattens out the undulations around that green a LOT - the slope down to it and around it, are all a lot more severe than that pic suggests....... Should give them a pic of the 14th hole (par 3 plateau green), or 15th green (with the huge mound in front) as well b101 ......
And if the players are going straight at that green off the tee - they must have cut the rough / gorse / jungle down a LOT since I last played there......
Could also show them the nice wide fairways on the Channel course....... gotta be at least 15 yards between the marsh (left) and the jungle (right) on most of them  |
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Post by b101 on Oct 31, 2019 12:43:21 GMT -5
Oh, these ones?   My personal favourite will always be 2 though. Triple tier, thin green, with pot bunkers left that leave a splash out down the slope and a massive runoff right. Brutal approach if you bail out right from the tee:  |
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Post by rob4590 on Oct 31, 2019 12:46:53 GMT -5
That's the ones - nice putt that player has left himself from the back of 14!!!! Got any pics of the nice 'shallow' bunker in front of the 5th too? |
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Post by b101 on Oct 31, 2019 12:51:07 GMT -5
Yep! Really need to get back down to play soon...  |
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Oct 31, 2019 13:50:04 GMT -5
Oh, these ones? My personal favourite will always be 2 though. Triple tier, thin green, with pot bunkers left that leave a splash out down the slope and a massive runoff right. Brutal approach if you bail out right from the tee: Dear. Lord.  |
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Post by joegolferg on Nov 2, 2019 12:20:35 GMT -5
Yep! Really need to get back down to play soon... I've been putting off building a British links course for years. I'm definitely getting one done before any future TGC releases. |
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Post by joegolferg on Nov 4, 2019 3:56:38 GMT -5
I've been waiting a long time for some footage of Yale like this...
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Post by linkslover on Nov 7, 2019 12:19:31 GMT -5
Seeing those pictures of Burnham and Berrow makes me want to play it.
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Post by joegolferg on Nov 11, 2019 15:50:07 GMT -5
As far as thumbprints go this one is DAF...
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Post by gamesdecent on Nov 11, 2019 16:34:04 GMT -5
Not as distinct of a thumbprint, but when I pulled the LIDAR for NGLA and saw the short hole, my jaw dropped at how HIGH the thumbprint-ish mound in the center is. And they pin it there too, like menaces. I can’t find a picture that even comes close to doing it justice. It has to be 3 feet higher than the edges of the green.  |
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