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Post by Coniglio on Sept 10, 2018 4:49:45 GMT -5
Exactly my point Ron. As it stands there really isnt much advantage to Masters, but there is a massive built in advantage to Pro with the huge cones on every shot making it that much easier, even on putting, makes pulling/pushing them almost impossible. Pro clubs make it a different game entirely, very TGC 1 like, if Masters arent enforced on the top tour i forsee a lot of people using pro. So unlike TGC 2 where the top tier clubs had not only a distance advantage but allowed you to stop the ball quicker with a bit of spin, TGC 2019 doesn't have this advantage. So the only reason to force them on the top tour now is that they are harder to hit and give greater disadvantages if you miss. That seems backwards to me. Having played with both, the swing itself is about the same but you have to be quicker on your downswing using Master clubs, this quicker pace often translates into 90-95% power shots or not a straight swing cause it isn't as smooth of a transition. I view it as if the true pros had a choice of playing with a big bertha driver or one of the original smaller metal woods. As an example you could hit it longer with the smaller head if you hit it flush but if you don't a player hitting a good shot with the big bertha ends up out driving you by 20 yards, so lets make the pros play with the smaller headed drivers cause they are pros! Doesn't make sense. I hope HB does whatever tweaks down the road to make the masters more beneficial with things like better spin control, hell any type of spin would be a plus and perhaps a higher trajectory. As of now there simply isn't enough advantage to use Master clubs over Pro because the disadvantages are so large and isn't proportional. Personally I would rather have people play whatever clubs they want and see more competition for the top spots than to force clubs that have no real advantage and would pretty much create a tour where an elite tour would be needed again because of the scoring discrepancies. For me difference between master/pro clubs is about 6-8 shots which is huge.
The sets are there for peoples ability, not to give different options or advantages with each set. Thats their purpose. So the whole argument that people would use masters if it had more benefits in my opinion is not fair. Masters is their to challange you more, to give you a higher risk of screwing things up, to feel a bit more pressure when you know you gotta get a birdie/par. They wouldnt be setting a specific set of clubs forced just because of the good advantages of the set, but to have an equal field of play. Where you know that the guy you are against is hitting every damn green because he has managed to get his swing to that level and not just because he thinks he has more advantages to be good by using the lower set and avoid all bad shots, just because the higher one does but doesnt give him extras. I understand that for some people not playing perfect shots is frustrating, but to me, if I watch golf or even play it, thats what the game is all about. Even pros are scrambling often. They are having bad shots. They end short or go too far. So by using those lower clubs and being good at the game you are taking all of that out of the equation and are left with someone that doesnt hit it as far (even though, if you use the middle sets, you can still reach the masters distance when you get the appropiete swing tempo) but gets unreal consistency. |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Sept 10, 2018 4:51:34 GMT -5
Do we really have to do this again?
The top clubs should be enforced at the top level at the very least. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 10, 2018 4:53:00 GMT -5
Do we really have to do this again?
The top clubs should be enforced at the top level at the very least. I concur - YAWN |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 5:41:46 GMT -5
Played about 10 rounds now. The first couple on Pro, then put on the big boy pants and took on the Master clubs. I’ll be sticking with the Master clubs, even though the tempo is tough. I’m finding it pretty easy to keep it straight at the moment, I only seem to miss left, and not terribly often.
Some people want to run a mouse along a straight edge or fiddle with their settings and only hit perfect shots, some want a (more) realistic game. I’ve already had some -8 thru -10 rounds, so sadly scores are going to be crazy again, but who knows, maybe it will shake up the top of the leaderboards a bit.
Glad we’re dropping the World Tour, it’ll be much better following the real tour events.
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 10, 2018 6:27:13 GMT -5
As with TGC2, I don't see the point of forcing club sets. The best players will be the ones mastering the Master club set. Anyone using Pro clubs is willfully putting themselves at a disadvantage to those guys, no matter how straight they hit them.
Stop getting hung up on the idea that the club sets are difficulty levels. They aren't. If they were, Master clubs would offer no distance advantage.
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Post by HeMan1202 on Sept 10, 2018 6:50:06 GMT -5
It would be so much easier if people would just look at club sets as difficulty levels. There doesn’t have to be a “reward” for using Master clubs. The reward is the additional challenge and shot variation that makes golf golf. There should be no change here, top tours, which presumably contain the top players in TGCT, should be using the most challenging set of clubs. It baffles me that people think they should get to play at the top level using easier to hit club sets.
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Post by paulus on Sept 10, 2018 7:00:33 GMT -5
Sweepstake on number of pages? I’m going for 52....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 7:02:30 GMT -5
I’ll put a dollar on 73 🤣
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Post by Coniglio on Sept 10, 2018 7:41:35 GMT -5
As with TGC2, I don't see the point of forcing club sets. The best players will be the ones mastering the Master club set. Anyone using Pro clubs is willfully putting themselves at a disadvantage to those guys, no matter how straight they hit them. Stop getting hung up on the idea that the club sets are difficulty levels. They aren't. If they were, Master clubs would offer no distance advantage. Disadvantage? Oh cmon. The middle set is only 15 yards behind and a decent player can easily pull off that overpowered driver and get the same distance as the Masters driver without it. This conversation is not about what the top 10 best players in the world are capable of. Its about what the game is and how it plays for most. You cant really say that they arent difficulty levels. Because they are, they even tell you during the game intro. Start with the easier clubs in the beginning. They are there for people that really cant hit a shot, but most people are and if not, at some point will be able to hit all shots with ease, and as soon as you are at that point, you have gained a huge advantage and removed all golf elements of a bad shot. Your argument of Masters being better because they can get more distance, isnt really an advangtage for most people. The same decent golfer with middle clubs, could be behind 20 yards and have 100 into the green and can hit an easy no danger shot to get close enough. You give that guy the Masters set, instead of 100 he will be pitching 80/70 yards and theres a big chance that will end up hitting a fast / slow tempo, leaving him with a 20ft+ putt, because the risk is there and its way more likely that it will happen with the Masters set than the easier and middle clubs. The only people I can respect for saying that they prefer the easier clubs is when they actually admit its because they dont wanna struggle and they dont wanna have bad shots. But you cant tell me that the sets arent difficulty levels and that people playing with the lower ones and risking and willing so much by using them. It would be so much easier if people would just look at club sets as difficulty levels. There doesn’t have to be a “reward” for using Master clubs. The reward is the additional challenge and shot variation that makes golf golf. There should be no change here, top tours, which presumably contain the top players in TGCT, should be using the most challenging set of clubs. It baffles me that people think they should get to play at the top level using easier to hit club sets. Exactly! |
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 10, 2018 7:53:37 GMT -5
Sweepstake on number of pages? I’m going for 52.... I'm very short odds for not following it any further at all... LETS.... PLAY.... GOLF!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 8:54:24 GMT -5
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Post by frank70 on Sept 10, 2018 8:56:14 GMT -5
New game ...... new horse ....  |
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Post by titaneddie on Sept 10, 2018 9:18:24 GMT -5
I'm nearly positive HB labeled the clubs as difficulty settings. Did a quick search and couldnt find that post, so maybe it was in the forum section that was wiped. I guess until we have "proof" we can continue on....
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 10, 2018 9:36:56 GMT -5
Disadvantage? Oh cmon. The middle set is only 15 yards behind and a decent player can easily pull off that overpowered driver and get the same distance as the Masters driver without it. This conversation is not about what the top 10 best players in the world are capable of. Its about what the game is and how it plays for most. The overpowered Pro driver is no match for the overpowered Master driver. People will master this technique. Lots of people will. Not just the top 10 best players. You cant really say that they arent difficulty levels. Because they are, they even tell you during the game intro. Start with the easier clubs in the beginning. They are there for people that really cant hit a shot, but most people are and if not, at some point will be able to hit all shots with ease, and as soon as you are at that point, you have gained a huge advantage and removed all golf elements of a bad shot. Your argument of Masters being better because they can get more distance, isnt really an advangtage for most people. The same decent golfer with middle clubs, could be behind 20 yards and have 100 into the green and can hit an easy no danger shot to get close enough. You give that guy the Masters set, instead of 100 he will be pitching 80/70 yards and theres a big chance that will end up hitting a fast / slow tempo, leaving him with a 20ft+ putt, because the risk is there and its way more likely that it will happen with the Masters set than the easier and middle clubs. This is the same argument from last year, and it turned out to be wrong. Once people got used to the mechanics, Tour Clubs dominated TGC2. In three months, Master Clubs will dominate this game too. "Difficult to control" is not the same as "Difficult to score", especially as people get better. When the Master clubs don't hit farther than the Pro clubs, then we can call them "Difficulty Levels". Just because Master Clubs are more difficult to you doesn't mean they are difficulty levels. Your example is cherry-picking a specific scenario. You're not including the 500-yard par 4, the 575-yard par 5, the 320-yard par 4, the dogleg or the cross hazard that only Master clubs can reach. You only want to talk about the specific scenario where a hole might favor accuracy over distance. The only people I can respect for saying that they prefer the easier clubs is when they actually admit its because they dont wanna struggle and they dont wanna have bad shots. But you cant tell me that the sets arent difficulty levels and that people playing with the lower ones and risking and willing so much by using them. If they're difficulty levels, then, by definition, the Beginner Clubs are the best clubs to use to score with. On January 1, let's take a poll to see how many players would choose Beginner Clubs in a competitive event. In TGC2, you could count on one hand the number of players using Standard Clubs. This game will be no different. |
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Post by rob4590 on Sept 10, 2018 10:08:59 GMT -5
Sweepstake on how many times this GIF will appear in the thread about club sets?  ? I'll go 25 (not including re-quotes)  |
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? I'll go 25 (not including re-quotes) 
