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Post by Brighttail on Jan 19, 2015 0:44:32 GMT -5
I have seen this variance of the ball squirting slightly left or right even off a tee using the mouse/keyboard. I was told then it had to do with my bacckswing which I never bought cause there is no indicator to say your backswing is crooked. I have no issues with a degree or two randomness in a swing, as it keeps the game from being one where you do all your mathematics with whatever formulas you use and so long as you got a straight swing, you are under 5 feet from the pin. There has to be some randomness/luck involved. So I went out to a friend's course who set up 3 holes where I did not touch the aiming marker. I did change the elevation to try and get the final yardage as close as I could to the yardage of the hole. On my test scenarios I used 130, 150, 180 yards with level lie, zero wind, medium greens. I have been able to figure out the club/loft to ensure the ball travels 130, 150, 180 yards within 1-2 yards plus minus. So under these conditions, the ball should be either just below the cup, just above the cup or in the cup. Over 50% of the time, the ball however leaves the club face a degree or two (right or left it seems random) of center. The result is for 130 yards i'm 4-5 feet right or left of the pin. 150 i'm 7-10 feet away and at 180 i'm almost 15 feet away right or left of the pin...all on straight shots with 0 wind. Now I use a PC with mouse and keyboard. My friend tried the exact same hole and over 40 shots using the same conditions, but he uses a controller on an x-box. (It took him 60 or so shots to ensure all the shots were perfectly straight) His results were FAR different than my own. Out of 40 shots 38 of them were perfectly straight, with 4 holes in one. So I think this re-enforces the discussion of the differences between mouse/keyboard vs controller. I have posted this to the HB forums and I hope they will look into it. If anyone wants to join in on the discussion or put up your own tests, the URL for my started thread on the forums over there is: www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php?topic=8820.0I'm hoping this doesn't come across as whining but in the end 1-2 degrees off the face of the club really does make a difference. Thanks, BT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 1:02:26 GMT -5
Even with my Xbox controller this happens to me, I'll hit that center line from time to time with no side wind and I'll end up as much as 20 feet left or right, this is understandable if the lie was uneven, but I catch this off the tee.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 16:42:47 GMT -5
I made a detailed post in the forum under yours that might interest you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 16:44:40 GMT -5
its random for me. i get hit what seems like a perfectly straight shot and it ends up being 20ft or so either side of the pin, just like taste said.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 17:07:05 GMT -5
Even with my Xbox controller this happens to me, I'll hit that center line from time to time with no side wind and I'll end up as much as 20 feet left or right, this is understandable if the lie was uneven, but I catch this off the tee. The graphic only shows the result of the forward swing in relation to the backswing, if you were off on both the shot would go off line and could show a perfectly straight line. The controller is consistent in that the result of the starting line you get is not random but a result of both the backswing and the forward swing with a relationship to the axis hit.
The m/kb in game has been setup to be totally random, there is no relationship to the axis swing to the starting line of the shot, and further when on an uneven lie the result only gets more random with a wider dispersion.
Tomahawk was a nice test of the effects and really highlighted the deficiency of the m/kb swing model.
Its a hold over from early access I'm sure where the m/kb was a last minute addition. I have heard of no further tweaking since though.
One other interesting note I found though, in the designer the m/kb works the very same as the controller and there is a relationship with the axis, it's in game where the differences become pronounced. I'm not sure why the designer would get it right and in game have it so wrong.
I suspect HBS will give us crickets though, their main baby is the controller.
I'm in the process of moving back to the controller as a result of this testing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 17:13:24 GMT -5
how could i be off that much and still go down the white line though steve, thats what im askin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 18:12:36 GMT -5
I cannot draw a line, but 5 oclock and 11 oclock would show a straight line and the shot would likely jump one way or the other.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 19, 2015 18:50:56 GMT -5
Since the mouse disappears on the swing and since the game doesn't mark where the backswing is on their on-screen graphic, it is near impossible to know for 100% sure that your backswing/foreswing was straight. I believe the indicator is not the WHOLE swing but from the height of the backswing where you stop moving the controller/mouse backwards all the way forward to impact.
All this being said, if this is a situation that EVERY player has to contend with, be it XBox, PC, ect...then it is a level playing field and HB studios either put this in to add some randomness or it is a bug that effect everyone equally. The problem is, I have friends who play with controllers that have no idea what i'm talking about when I explain my issue, which tells me they don't have this issue. If that is the case it creates and unfair playing field.
As you said Tommahawk is a perfect test with all its small hills/bumps in the fair way. Today I went and played #2 on Tommahawk with a 7mph wind that was straight from behind. I hit one club that went straight for the pin. PERFECT! 2 feet straight beyond the hole. I immediately restarted, got back to #2, same wind, same club, same shot...and I was 20 feet to the left of the pin but the hill i landed on rolled the ball towards the hole and what you know, HOLE IN ONE. In a rare case this little hiccup actually benefited me. This is normally not the case. On the plus side I have another way of playing this hole.
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Post by bentfivewood on Jan 19, 2015 20:55:21 GMT -5
I think it's the VIdeo golf equivalent of a pull and push. Draw back to the slight left or right and follow thru to the slight opposite. I've done it before myself. Just might be more exaggerated with kB/mouse
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 22:29:10 GMT -5
I think it's the VIdeo golf equivalent of a pull and push. Draw back to the slight left or right and follow thru to the slight opposite. I've done it before myself. Just might be more exaggerated with kB/mouse It is exactly but random, the controller is not random. The ball flight is fine, reacts normal as it should and both the same, if you go to the forum post listed above I gave some pictures.
To try and exaggerate any effect if there was any, I missed the axis by as far as I could before it was a slice. I was unable to take a screenshot of the controller, because of the 2 hands required, but the controller is controllable. If you try and push a shot, execute it, it will push, plain and simple, I'm fairly certain you all know that by now and there should be no argument there. The mouse on the other hand, will not push until well into its flight with the starting line being random whether you hit straight, push or pull, it's random.
With that said it's not killer always because it still reacts OK with wind, axis hit, lie just like the controller does for the rest of the shot. So bring out the math and the meatloaf song, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Bright you just have to assume the worse and play for it. What I mean is, you are going to have a start line left, right or center and definitely one of those 3. Which one is anyone's guess but it has to be one of those with absolute certainty. So if you assume the worse case, ie this starts right I'm dead, so aim accordingly, aim for it thinking it will start right, then if it starts right you are great, starts center you are Ok, left you have a little work to do. Never aim if it starts right or left you are dead taking the chance, because sure as chit you will be dead. So if you play it smart, it should be 2 out of 3 then you are OK, with the 3rd leaving you some work to do. Hope that makes sense. With that approach the m/kb may only cost you a couple shots per round.
It does generate some good WTF shots though because of the start line.
But Bright it looks like all we will hear is crickets from HBS though.
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Post by kulch on Jan 19, 2015 22:41:09 GMT -5
ive also noticed slight variation off the club face and thought it was random. i use X1 controller
i didnt know my backswing played a part in this until now. thx for this
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 19, 2015 23:37:14 GMT -5
I think it's the VIdeo golf equivalent of a pull and push. Draw back to the slight left or right and follow thru to the slight opposite. I've done it before myself. Just might be more exaggerated with kB/mouse It is exactly but random, the controller is not random. The ball flight is fine, reacts normal as it should and both the same, if you go to the forum post listed above I gave some pictures.
To try and exaggerate any effect if there was any, I missed the axis by as far as I could before it was a slice. I was unable to take a screenshot of the controller, because of the 2 hands required, but the controller is controllable. If you try and push a shot, execute it, it will push, plain and simple, I'm fairly certain you all know that by now and there should be no argument there. The mouse on the other hand, will not push until well into its flight with the starting line being random whether you hit straight, push or pull, it's random.
With that said it's not killer always because it still reacts OK with wind, axis hit, lie just like the controller does for the rest of the shot. So bring out the math and the meatloaf song, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Bright you just have to assume the worse and play for it. What I mean is, you are going to have a start line left, right or center and definitely one of those 3. Which one is anyone's guess but it has to be one of those with absolute certainty. So if you assume the worse case, ie this starts right I'm dead, so aim accordingly, aim for it thinking it will start right, then if it starts right you are great, starts center you are Ok, left you have a little work to do. Never aim if it starts right or left you are dead taking the chance, because sure as chit you will be dead. So if you play it smart, it should be 2 out of 3 then you are OK, with the 3rd leaving you some work to do. Hope that makes sense. With that approach the m/kb may only cost you a couple shots per round.
It does generate some good WTF shots though because of the start line.
But Bright it looks like all we will hear is crickets from HBS though.
Yeah I do this on approach shots a lot.. making sure I have aimed enough that if it does happen I hopefully will not go into a hazzard. Where I get a little slack is off the drive and find myself in the rough or worse a bunker due to it and that kills your hole. As I said, if i know the 'features' of a game I can work around most of them. I just think it is unfair if it happens more on a PC than other controllers. An example of this is I just played Tomahawk in a practice round with 12-14mph winds. I played an absolutely flawless front nine making the turn at -10 and had my sites set on the record. Next three holes I had this issue crop up. First on a drive on #10 which landed in the rough and didn't allow me to shoot for eagle, in fact the ball flew so far off I had a really awkward flop I couldn't nail and settled for par. Next hole the approach shot landed 20 or so feet from where I was aiming. The next hole same thing. Birdie a hole and next thing I know I have two bogeys. At this point I've conceded the round and while my distance is perfect I'm ending in places I have no idea how i'm getting there.. Finish -8. So if this is all supposedly random, I hit a slew of good luck with no issues on the front 9 and then 6 of 9 holes it happened on the back nine. Law of averages says it shouldn't be that bad in the future, but it is still irritating when you have an amazing round going.
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Post by mike1409 on Jan 21, 2015 22:56:01 GMT -5
I have seen this happen to me too, I thought it was an uneven lie.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 23:42:46 GMT -5
I have seen this happen to me too, I thought it was an uneven lie. That's just another interesting observation, only the m/kb is effected by the tee uneven lie, but again it's random, the effect of any lie in the fairway is random for the m/kb, the controller is predictable on a fairway uneven lie, on the tee there is no controller effect to an uneven lie that I could find.
The m/kb axis effect is random. The Controller axis effect is predictable.
Crickets from HBS on this, I was thinking since this effect is not in the designer, it's in the game on purpose by design for the m/kb, I'll call it the leadbelly effect. I was looking at some unity programming last night and seen the setting for the random variance for the various controller options. It's not broken, it's by design, only reason I can think of is the mistaken believe that only the m/kb can be configured to hit straight and the mistaken believe that the controllers are immune. Any controller on any system is not immune though, not even close. But in my experience once programmer put their minds to beliefs, mistaken or not they don't budge. In actuality its easier to fix an xbox controller on any system then it is to fix the m/kb on the PC, and PS4 is easiest of them all. But I'm not turning this into a cheat thread.
Above might seem weird but they don't have the option to program a random variance for straight only, they only have the option of how much random variance within a range and for which controller. Why I think it is a bit weird, if you were going to combat straight, why pick on the m/kb? I get not putting in the random variance across all controllers, that is what makes WGT the worse game on the planet, the random variance IMHO.
The graphic already combats and identifies the straight shooter, there's little to no need to have a random variance for the m/kb only. Some people just like to use a mouse and keyboard on a computer, 98% are legit. Personally, and I might be alone, but if I wanted to use a controller I would do so on a $350 console not a $3800 alienware laptop. There is just something so wrong with turning my $3800 laptop into a $350 console.
However my testing is over, my complaining is over, I'll assimilate, I'll move to controller f/t. No choice with the scores dropping as low as they are right now, no chance of competing with the m/kb any longer. Scores may climb for a bit, but as in RLG, to get better, you have to get worse.
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Post by Brighttail on Jan 22, 2015 12:29:16 GMT -5
To be fair it is on HB's list of fixes in the future, but it is cited as "low priority". I'm not sure how this is LOW, after all it affects only the most important shot in the game, the approach shot and it does so on every shot that isn't a par 3.
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