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Post by jwfickett on Jan 13, 2015 9:30:27 GMT -5
Farmers Insurance Open - Bailiwick Grand Golf Club (Dan Hebert and Job Fickett) AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Yeti National CC at Sasquatch Point (Bryan Cowles) The Northern Trust Open - TGC @ The Bavarro (Wendy Airey) The Honda Classic - Dewdrop Ridge (Joseph Bowling) tgctours.com/Tour/Tournaments?tourId=1&season=2015
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gobraves21
Caddy
Posts: 59
TGCT Name: Daniel Coates
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Post by gobraves21 on Jan 13, 2015 13:54:43 GMT -5
Those all seem like great courses. I was curious though, are the hosted courses only for those submitted by TGC Tour members? I was just curious because I've seen Pebble Beach within the game itself, but it wasn't chosen for the Pebble Beach pro am.
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 13, 2015 14:04:55 GMT -5
Those all seem like great courses. I was curious though, are the hosted courses only for those submitted by TGC Tour members? I was just curious because I've seen Pebble Beach within the game itself, but it wasn't chosen for the Pebble Beach pro am. I select courses based on a number of factors, and yes, they need to be in our database in order to be assigned to a tournament. I am extremely picky and hypercritical of real course renditions. I have not seen a Pebble Beach or TPC Sawgrass recreated in this game that does enough justice to either course to be placed on tour. When we are getting into real course renditions, the standards are Pinehurst #2, Magnolia National, Pine Valley, and the upcoming Whistling Straits and Merion East courses the two Craigs have in the works. Anyone doing a recreation needs to put that level of skill/time/detail into it or else it will not make the cut for the tours. That's not a TGCT policy, that's a jwfickett policy. I encourage RCRs from all designers but they better be dead on. So, for the tournaments, I'm aiming to pick fictional courses that have some sort of characteristics or qualities that offer a reasonable feel/quality simulation for the real world counterpart.
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Post by dlw1964 on Jan 13, 2015 14:06:16 GMT -5
There isn't a good pebble beach replica. However one of the official course (can't think of the course name) is very close. I would of prefer that is was use for the tournament. Bailiwick & Bavarro are two excellent courses.
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 13, 2015 14:08:07 GMT -5
Those all seem like great courses. I was curious though, are the hosted courses only for those submitted by TGC Tour members? I was just curious because I've seen Pebble Beach within the game itself, but it wasn't chosen for the Pebble Beach pro am. I select courses based on a number of factors, and yes, they need to be in our database in order to be assigned to a tournament. I am extremely picky and hypercritical of real course renditions. I have not seen a Pebble Beach or TPC Sawgrass recreated in this game that does enough justice to either course to be placed on tour. When we are getting into real course renditions, the standards are Pinehurst #2, Magnolia National, Pine Valley, and the upcoming Whistling Straits and Merion East courses the two Craigs have in the works. Anyone doing a recreation needs to put that level of skill/time/detail into it or else it will not make the cut for the tours. That's not a TGCT policy, that's a jwfickett policy. I encourage RCRs from all designers but they better be dead on. So, for the tournaments, I'm aiming to pick fictional courses that have some sort of characteristics or qualities that offer a reasonable feel/quality simulation for the real world counterpart. I will add to this by saying that a reasonable work-around is for people to create courses that are "inspired" by real world courses, but not true recreations. In those instances, I'll be far more lenient. You might include a few of the signature holes of the inspirational course that make people say, "hey! that looks like _____ hole at ______ course!" and that's cool. But when you tell me that you are recreating a course, there is a certain level of expectation that comes along with that; an expectation that is much more than getting the yardage and the general hole shapes right. We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree. That takes a requisite amount of GNCD skill, time, and patience that most people can't or won't be able to devote. Hence, why I've never done an RCR...I know what goes into it and I'm not capable of it.
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onhobobobohno
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 123
TGCT Name: Darren Rutherford
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Post by onhobobobohno on Jan 13, 2015 14:15:45 GMT -5
There is a good Bethpage Course out there... "Bethpage Black B" I think it is? Definitely worth looking at.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 17:14:40 GMT -5
"We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree."
That's not done, nor has it ever been done to that level of detail for any course here ever!
I cannot see any reason if someone did a great job, made a nice course and got close, why it could not be selected. To select 2 courses that have not even been built yet and to go and select something completely different where someone put less then half the amount of time into the build, just does not sit right. But I guess it's not selection by committee, and we take what we get and should just just be happy with that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 17:19:28 GMT -5
not a fan of dew drop, may crossover that one
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 17:23:07 GMT -5
Farmers insurance and northern trust are events I like the look of. TGC bavarro and bailiwick are two of my favourite courses.
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 13, 2015 17:31:17 GMT -5
not a fan of dew drop, may crossover that one Designer may be making a few changes to Dewdrop, so you may want to hold off until you see them.
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gobraves21
Caddy
Posts: 59
TGCT Name: Daniel Coates
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Post by gobraves21 on Jan 13, 2015 21:25:38 GMT -5
"We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." That's not done, nor has it ever been done to that level of detail for any course here ever! I cannot see any reason if someone did a great job, made a nice course and got close, why it could not be selected. To select 2 courses that have not even been built yet and to go and select something completely different where someone put less then half the amount of time into the build, just does not sit right. But I guess it's not selection by committee, and we take what we get and should just just be happy with that. I'm with you on that Steve. I hope a lot of other people are as well. The most played Pebble Beach replica isn't perfect by any means, but it's a decent replication of the course. No disrespect to those who create their own course designs, but I think most people would rather play in tournaments that are based on where the pros play.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 22:12:52 GMT -5
Gobraves21 I'm with you, but I have the sense we have the back corner seat in the bar, I would suggest we turn our backs to the wall on this, you know what's next.
This is sending the message its who you know is what counts, I have no issue with the current replica's, I rather like them and they are good choices for addition.
I read the threads, I seen how these were built, and anyone with any knowledge would tell you how inaccurate google is, how the elevation data is off, the measurement data off, and there is no street view for golf courses. But these designers did a magnificent job all the same, but lets be clear, none of these did "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree."
So what is being communicated, although maybe it's not the intention, is to place a bar sky high for all other comers. To select 2 courses not even built yet, reinforces this belief. Is it really the cool kids against everyone message that is being communicated, I somehow doubt that is the intention, but that is the message, so maybe that is the intention. Everyone one else is being told, get your gps back pack on and take thousands of measurements and photo's then your course might get past the bar. Because presently, for everyone else there really is no way to "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree."
As for the non designing Golfers being told the great replica's they have played don't pass the bar either, sorry, but I'm with gobraves21 here. There are well done replica's out there. I would much rather play a well done Bethpage black, even if the designer has no name and did not manage to "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." then some other course I have already played 12 times in 1 tour or another. I don't care who the designer is, it's the design that matters IMHO.
No offense intended, but "I select courses based on a number of factors" committee of one with such a large staff and membership base is a problem for obvious reasons.
A poll from a selected list makes more sense to me then to throw this on the shoulders of 1 person as broad as they may be.
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 13, 2015 22:36:26 GMT -5
Gobraves21 I'm with you, but I have the sense we have the back corner seat in the bar, I would suggest we turn our backs to the wall on this, you know what's next. This is sending the message its who you know is what counts, I have no issue with the current replica's, I rather like them and they are good choices for addition. I read the threads, I seen how these were built, and anyone with any knowledge would tell you how inaccurate google is, how the elevation data is off, the measurement data off, and there is no street view for golf courses. But these designers did a magnificent job all the same, but lets be clear, none of these did "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." So what is being communicated, although maybe it's not the intention, is to place a bar sky high for all other comers. To select 2 courses not even built yet, reinforces this belief. Is it really the cool kids against everyone message that is being communicated, I somehow doubt that is the intention, but that is the message, so maybe that is the intention. Everyone one else is being told, get your gps back pack on and take thousands of measurements and photo's then your course might get past the bar. Because presently, for everyone else there really is no way to "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." As for the non designing Golfers being told the great replica's they have played don't pass the bar either, sorry, but I'm with gobraves21 here. There are well done replica's out there. I would much rather play a well done Bethpage black, even if the designer has no name and did not manage to "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." then some other course I have already played 12 times in 1 tour or another. I don't care who the designer is, it's the design that matters IMHO. No offense intended, but "I select courses based on a number of factors" committee of one with such a large staff and membership base is a problem for obvious reasons. A poll from a selected list makes more sense to me then to throw this on the shoulders of 1 person as broad as they may be. This is so off-base I do not even know where to begin. You certainly read a lot into my post. Course selection is not a mystery, and we have already used courses from 18 different designers by the time February is over, so I'm not certain why you think I'm trying to exclude designers or playing favorites. Finally, I'll quote this directly from our bylaws Section II(2)(d)(i): "Conflicts of Interest. TGC Tours takes conflict of interest considerations very seriously, and will not jeopardize the integrity of a tournament by unfairly, arbitrarily, or capriciously making any rulings on a tournament matter..." and, additionally, from my bio page on our website, "I am also the administrator primarily responsible for selecting courses for tournament play, in collaboration with the rest of the team." Courses will be selected based on merit. Period. I run every course selection past our team, or at the very least Tim/Doyley. Picking courses is never going to please everyone all the time but we are doing our best to put the very best courses the community has submitted on all four of our tours. This is the last post I'm going to make on this topic in this thread. The courses for February have been selected and I hope you all enjoy them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 22:58:35 GMT -5
I'm aware of the bylaws, but lets be clear, You did say, "I select courses based on a number of factors" not we, and you did say "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." no-one can climb that hurdle. And you did say, "and the upcoming Whistling Straits and Merion East courses the two Craigs have in the works".
So forgive me, but you did clearly state Craig get's a pass and no-one else does.
I did not think what you stated was the intention of the club, but, I thought it better to nip this in the butt right now.
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Post by bentfivewood on Jan 14, 2015 1:15:35 GMT -5
I'm aware of the bylaws, but lets be clear, You did say, "I select courses based on a number of factors" not we, and you did say "We are talking down to the depth of every bunker and the placement of every tree." no-one can climb that hurdle. And you did say, "and the upcoming Whistling Straits and Merion East courses the two Craigs have in the works". So forgive me, but you did clearly state Craig get's a pass and no-one else does. I did not think what you stated was the intention of the club, but, I thought it better to nip this in the butt right now. Ease up Steve. You're out of your lane and jumping to conclusions. I can vouch for all of the points Job has made.
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