Tillinghast bracket judging and results

[Deleted]

McNaughton Golf & Tennis Club vs The Dusty Lion Club (East)

McNaughton Judge's Comments

Judge #1
Mc Naugthon: solid planting other than the small circles around the trees looked off.  i think hole 2 or 3 where he had a bunch of small mulch circles... i would have filled it in ...would have made them bigger and raised. playability was really good for cc. ok bunkers, solid views, found a few spots where he could have lowered ground to give better views on second shots. overall a really good course.

Judge #2
and now I reach one that will make me sad...

Macnaughton vs Dusty lion... sigh...

Well Macnaughtyman is a really great track. Some nice hole designs, simple bunkers most of which are well placed and fairly well done... Good understated planting. Good use of walls and other things to spruce up the course. Great course that will find it's way on the cc am tour I think and the players will LOVE it. Some great views in places too. There were a few things that bugged me. The greens felt forced at times even though they weren't hard...just kinda artificial if you know what I mean. Had a very good time and will be back.

Dusty Lion is a track that kicked the visuals up big time. The planting is spot on where it should be, most of the bunkers are well placed and well done. The FLOW of the course is really good. I never felt like I was playing a hole I had seen before on the course. The green size got away from ola a few times and they were a little forced just like there were on Mayday's course.

If I could send them both through I would because they both deserve to go on.

The Dusty Lion Judge's Comments

Judge #1
Overall Impressions:
Very impressive design. Some really interesting hole concepts. The sculpting you did was very impressive as well. Not because it was drastic or perfect...but because it was ballsy and because it was HARD, but you took the time to do it anyway. This course could not have been easy to build. Equally impressive was the planting. It too could not have been easy to do. You kept it natural and classy. At no time did it feel forced or unnatural. That takes talent and time. I do think that your green size got away from you as the course went on. Also the greens still felt like they were forced into the ground. You’re not the first nor will you be the last to get that comment. 

Pros:
Tee shots are just the best so far without question
Bunkering in very consistent throughout
Flow is very good
planting/lighting/shadows are spot on almost everywhere
Fearless sculpting for the most part
The best brushwork by a MILE

Cons:
Green size in spots
Green’s feel forced in places
Still some blocked views
Fences seemed a little off in spots
Many missed opportunities around greens

Judge #2
Dusty lion was wonderfully planted course with some unique sculpting and nice views. playability was solid. he did choke some landing areas on long par 4s, greens were ok ... some severe slopes here and there.  a tough cc pro course, loved the lighting and great brushes. another very good course.

Griff's Final Thoughts:

I'm not sure what I can even say about this one. I could go on and on about how good both courses are, but I think the other judges have already made sufficient cases to that fact. On my scoresheets this came down to tenths of a point. Both courses are very clean...both are very polished...both are fun to play...both are going to be on tour without a doubt. Sadly, one of these contenders is going home while the other moves on. 

and the winner is

The Dusty Lion Club (East)

[Deleted]

TBD vs Elysian National Golf Club

Elysian National Golf Club Judge's Comments

Judge #1

elysian: wow... crazy lighting here. i liked it on the back drop but IMO it hurt the look of the course , ok spline work and bunkers, but the pins bothered me. long shots with slopes running away from the pin... found this to be a pattern. this is just first impressions since it has a bye in round 1.

Judge #2 (only because Clint has indicated he wants his nose rubbed in it and is wearing his big boy panties today...)

1 - First impression is “Clint...welcome to good bunkering!” Seriously. MILES better buddy. The funky haze...works...it looks good. The clean shallow water edge is lovely. The fountain? Meh…But a really really good opening shot. PERFECT amount of slope on the fairway. Rocks on next tee are nice. There is one bump that is SLIGHTLY too big between the drive and the green. Lose that and it’s stellar. AS it is...very very good. Green fits. Could be tied even more into the ground...but it fits. AND ITS NOT ENORMOUS! YAY!

2 - a few small brush/spline issues...but not bad. Hazard spacing is good. The sculpting around the bunkers is almost there...but could be even a little more dramatic. Green is a good size.

3 - lighting here does give you a few issues...but the Drive is nice. The bunkers are super simple and clean which works. Brush work is very nice. Some odd sculpting along the sides of the fairway on both sides. Maybe trying to make little grass bunker type things...but they don’t work well. Had the right hand bunker on the approach been a little more pronounced in sculpting it would have ruled. Still nice...but a slightly missed chance in my eye. Bunker left is nice. Very back left portion of bunker is not flat though. A little bump in there. Sadly...your green inflated on you. Hard to fight the demons eh? I feel like the red mulch/needles need a few more trees to really fit.

4 - BUnkers left could be a bit more pronounced. The shapes seem a little forced too. More good brush work. 2nd shot from left side is slightly blocked by a hump...but it’s ok. Green size is better.

5 - It’s flatish...but it’s ok. Bunker right could be slightly higher but I think you’d need to raise the entire hole. I thik that would actually work. Just the entire hole up a couple of feet then use those extra feet on that bunker. Green is just too big again. No need for that much green. Also...the area behind is a little off. I like the mounding...but it’s not quite right. Hard to see the issue but I feel it.

6 - the right hand bunker is just off. That flat finger into a sloping sand side...it’s just bleh. Back bunker is nice. Green shape is fun and actually harder than it looks. The bare green area on the far side of the water is a missed chance again. Either take it out or do something with it. It’s just kinda there.

7 - narrow fairway short is kinda...odd and doesn’t really do anything. BUnkers on this hole are a little less good. Not bad...just less good. I like the 2nd shot. The hill in front of me between the bunkers in the fairway actually is just the right height. Green size is better...but the shape is...odd.

8 - good look from the tee. Edges of the fairway near the right middle fairway bunker are wonky. Fairway area left of the green does nothing visually or for playability. Would be better served to have a hill or something there.

9 - Bridge is...well it’s a bunch of bridges stuck together and it’s obvious. That’s what it is. Why the little “tail” on the front end of teh fairway? BUnkers are fine from the tee...but a slope from left to right or back to front if you use the tee view would be really nice. Back bunker seems off. Frames hole ok but doesn’t seem to be in play. Green shape is again a little off.

10 - colors are different here. Left bunker has more natural rough than other places. Also...it could stand to be slightly deeper. Length of this hole...green is too big and bunkers are not in play at all. Green is a little much in spots.

11 - these skinny little tips on the fairways are just bad. Stop it! Bad clint! Bad! Bunker right of green is kinda bad too. Shape is off and depth is off. Green is still too big I think.

12 - *insert barf emoji here* What the crap is this hole? Meh. It’s not that bad...but it’s just nothing good.

13 - sculpting is not so good on this hole. Planting is off too. Green shape and angle is good...however it’s not terribly interesting and the surrounding land is just kinda “there”

14 - Things are starting to feel a little samey in spots. BUnkers here are not really that good. Especially 2nd on the left. Things are starting to feel flat around greens even more as the cousre goes along.

15 - as I said to another designer… did it take many stamps to mail this one in?

16 - What the holy… There is a hill...right in front of my tee shot. Nope. Not reviewing any more of this hole. NEXT

17 - green is too much like old school andre greens. Another hole wasted. This course went downhill fast. What happened? Did ya get bored?

18 - ending on a nice look...but still kind of generic. There is a patch of rough in the fairway. Yeah...just not great. It’s fine...but it’s forgettable now.

Overall Impressions:
The course started off nicely. Looked like it was going to be good stuff...then it just kind of petered out. Things just got kind of boring and generic as time went by. Some bunkers are nice, clean, simple...just nice. Others you went back into some strange shapes and odd placements. It’s just off. The lighting was ok...then it wasn’t. The sculpting was ok then it wasn’t. I feel like time ran out and things were rushed to completion.

Pros:
Some clean nice bunkering in spots
Lighting is interesting
Water edges are really well done

Cons:
Some bad bunker ideas/shapes
Useless areas of fairway in places
Just kind of bored me

[Deleted]

Parque de Golf Chapultepec vs Carolina Shores

Judge #1

Parque de golf de viva la Mexico y Chimichangas vs Carolina Shores...with palm trees...

Carolina Shores is a good course. It'll get a lot of plays and it's quite enjoyable. From a technical standpoint there are some issues with brush work, green sizes, a couple of pins, paths...just little stuff. Bunkers are ok but could be better. Lighting is great and it has some good views. Very well done and fun to play. Good flow too. A round completes without ever feeling like you're taken out of the round by something jarring.

Parque de Taco Truck took me by surprise. Jivesniator took some real chances here and most of them worked out really well. The use of natural rough around bunkers is great. The bunkers could be more aggressively sculpted but they work well. They are placed well too and spaced well. The greens are pretty straightforward but the size is good and they play nicely. Having a little more length would help a few holes but the flow and variety of holes was impressive. There are some empty spaces near buildings and such...but the overall look of this course really stands out to me. The course flowed really well with two exceptions. Two par threes just kind of fell flat. The good thing is that the rest of the holes make up for it.

This one isn't easy... For me, in this first round the little ticky tack stuff isn't as big a deal. I'm looking at hole design and execution as well as flow and enjoyability.

Judge #2

Jives vs Carolina

Carolina was fun to play with some good looks, but lacks the polish. too many single shape bunkers, good lighting, a solid track... just needs more finish

jives... i liked this course... short, narrow and good greens. he took some chances here and it paid off for the most part. thought it needed a little more length in places, but some really nice hole designs. 

Griff's Final Thoughts:
Very much a contrast of styles in this matchup. Both courses had some really, really good things going on, but both had some issues with polish and finishing as well. Neither designer has anything to hang their head about in this one as both courses are going to find a home on tour in the coming weeks. Parque plays very well, is very clean, but could use some contrast between background/edges and the playable areas in my opinion...it just feels drab in places. Carolina has some very fun shots, great sight lines, and looks fantastic around the edges...just a really nice course. It does suffer from some rough edges here and there as well as some very minor tick tack things along the way. All of that being said, only one can move forward...

and the winner is...

Parque de Golf Chapultepec

[Deleted]

The Kenzatillie Club vs Wanderers Club @ Whistling Isle

The Kenzatillie Club Judge's Comments

Judge #1
kenzie has big fairways and nice greens and bunkers. plays very good for cc am. you can tell he used whats there for the planting, good brushes, solid views. cc guys will love this course. i thought it was a solid and safe track.

Judge #2
The Kenzatillie Club by mrvinegar206

Wanderers Club @ Whistling Isle by welikeitroughnc

The Kenz: Probably my least favorite opening tee shot in the contest. Seems to be a theme for me on this course.. I either like the hole, or I hate it. Not quite sure how I feel about most of the greens being bunkerless... definitely an interesting look, but makes for some ugly views of nothingness. Clean, well manicured course... although sometimes feel like sculpting was neglected with the mounds in the fairway (I'm sure it was intentional). Spot on for CC

Wanderer: Love the looks on this course. May have some issues with bunkers and sculpting, but this fits the theme behind this course. Some really bad decisions here... bunker right in the middle of the tee shot on 11.... the railroad (?) ties used in the bunkers on 12. 17th hole feels like it doesn't fit on the course. Really wish the lighthouse on 18 was moved a few feet.. might make that one of the better finishing views in the game.

Judge #3

Kenz vs Wanderer

Wanderer is a good idea of a course but it's not quite fully realized. The sand beach/dunes are a bit forced feeling, not quite there. The bunkers are all interesting and they do work...but the execution is a bit off. That type of bunkering is very difficult to pull off and have it fit into the ground properly. Vegetation is very lacking. Went past minimal planting to basically bare and it was a step too far. The texture choices here are also off in my eye but hey, that's a personal thing. The sculpting is pretty nice from an overall standpoint. However, this kind of course really needs a focal point or something from which or to which you can direct the eyes of the player by designing the hole towards or away from it. The difficulty is a bit of a miss but it didn't bug me as much as some others. There are some really good hole ideas here, it just felt a little unfinished. The rocks weren't especially well handled either. Green sizes and shapes were really well done. The course is another that kind of makes me happy/sad. a number of holes ran together. They were all fine holes...they just all blended and in their visual homogeneity any uniqueness of playability was lost. There are exceptions (a couple par 5's especially and a short par 4 I recall) This is a good course. It will get a lot of plays. Just saying that it's a look that wasn't QUITE pulled off as it should have been.

Kenzaskittles is a pretty interesting track as well. The way holes are tied together is well done and adds to the flow and feel nicely. The holes tended to feel a little flat at times. It's like everything needs to be dialed up a couple of notches. It fits the CC skill level nicely. I keep wishing for some DRAMA somewhere...but it's hard to come by on this one unless you make it yourself by playing a crappy shot. The planting is also minimal but it's not empty which is good. I really feel this one could have benefited with some strategic planting though. The course doesn't take a lot of chances...but that's ok. Bunker placements are good overall and the sculpting is ok though it feels understated to a fault in places. It's an interesting course in that it's going to really give some guys fits on the greens. They are subtle but wicked at times. same as wanderer, a few holes can kind of feel like the same thing here and there. Just bringing in water or planting or something would have helped a lot.

Griff's Final Thoughts:

I actually like both of these courses. I'm afraid that both designers may feel that I don't, but that's not the case at all. Matt was just very clean all the way through the course...but is it too safe? That can be argued til we're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that it's just very clean and meets the difficulty level to a tee. Mitch took some chances, and most were very successful in my opinion. Tee to green this is just a really nice course with some very interesting shots. The greens are a bit overcooked for me given the combination of speed and slope, but does the rest of the course make up for that and move it into the second round?

So many question to be answered here with 2 courses that will find a home on tour this coming season. Both designers show class and skill, but only one is moving on to the second round...

and the winner is...

The Kenzatillie Club

[mayday_golf83]

Just wrapped up playing all the courses in this bracket. All I can say is wow. Some darn nice courses are going to bid farewell in the first round. While I have a couple of courses I prefer over others, to try the rank the course 1-7 would really be an injustice because there simply isn't a "seventh-place" course in the bunch. I can see this bracket giving guys fits in the bracket challenge because there are legitimately 4-5 courses I could easily see winning it under the right circumstances.

Job well done, guys, and good luck as the deliberations commence!

mrooola  Clint Kelso  jivesinator  Terry Grayson  mrvinegar206  welikeitroughnc

[jivesinator]

nice work making this the group of death guys, bold prediction but I call the winner of this group is the winner of it all

[mayday_golf83]

Sept 2, 2017 20:29:08 GMT -5 jivesinator said:

nice work making this the group of death guys, bold prediction but I call the winner of this group is the winner of it all

I'm going to refrain from picking a winner til I get through all the courses, but think it's safe to say, IF there's a weak link in the final four, it's not going to be coming from the Tillinghast. 

[scampi00]

My prediction for winner is in this bracket.

[welikeitroughnc]

Looks like you win mayday lol

[mayday_golf83]

Sept 2, 2017 23:28:58 GMT -5 welikeitroughnc said:

Looks like you win mayday lol

Haha ... I've still got to tame a Lion before I can even think about that. Besides jacobkessler picked me to win right after the draw, so I'm sure there's some sort of jinx attached to that 

[scampi00]

I want to congratulate Ola on the win but I also wanted to congratulate Jeremy on his course too. Both of you easily had (imo) top 5 courses in this competition. I would have loves to see judges discussion on this one.

Congrats to both of you.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2017 16:54:30 GMT -5 scampi00 said:

I want to congratulate Ola on the win but I also wanted to congratulate Jeremy on his course too. Both of you easily had (imo) top 5 courses in this competition. I would have loves to see judges discussion on this one.

Congrats to both of you.

nahhh...you don't. This is one of a few matches that wasn't fun to judge at all. Both of these guys had excellent courses...and it sucked to send either home in the first round.

[mayday_golf83]

Can't say that I'm not gutted by the result, though it's the one I anticipated.

Hat's off, mrooola . You put out a spectacular course, no two ways about it. Like I've said previously, one of the best sets of par 3s I've seen in a while. That, and a higher degree of difficulty, likely put you over the top. I commend you for that. I gave it my all, but I got beat by a better course. There's no shame in that. 

Judges, if you do want to get with me offline, I'd gladly welcome a more in-depth breakdown of what specifically I can do to take my game to the next level. Feel like I've improved what I do with each course I've built, but seem to struggle finding that finishing pop, which ultimately cost me against Crazy, Reeb and Ola -- not that that's a shabby group of gents to bow out to. I'm by no means grovelling over the result, just an introspective of where I feel my design game currently sits.

I commend all the judges for the time and effort it took to play/review all the courses. Took me the better part of Labor Day weekend to give each one a cursory playthru and I know that pales to the thorough examination the judges gave each course.

Also, congrats to mrvinegar206 and jivesinator  on winning your first round match ups. Good luck to you two, Ola and Clint Kelso in the next round. Commiserations to Terry and Mitch who, like me, bid an early farewell. Same sentiments to the winners and losers in the other three brackets. 

Lastly, one more big thank you to @griff for putting on theses contests. I know you deflect a lot of the credit, but because of the behind-the-scenes work you do, we have a platform to showcase our works and receive real, honest feedback about how we can get better, which only makes the design community stronger as a whole. Hopefully you and Mrs. Griff are spared much trouble from Irma's impending arrival. 

Cheers gents, and looking forward to how the rest of the contest plays out!

[mayday_golf83]

Sept 9, 2017 16:58:13 GMT -5 @griff said:

Sept 9, 2017 16:54:30 GMT -5 scampi00 said:

I want to congratulate Ola on the win but I also wanted to congratulate Jeremy on his course too. Both of you easily had (imo) top 5 courses in this competition. I would have loves to see judges discussion on this one.

Congrats to both of you.

nahhh...you don't. This is one of a few matches that wasn't fun to judge at all. Both of these guys had excellent courses...and it sucked to send either home in the first round.

Appreciate it guys.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2017 17:04:54 GMT -5 mayday_golf83 said:

Can't say that I'm not gutted by the result, though it's the one I anticipated.

Hat's off, mrooola . You put out a spectacular course, no two ways about it. Like I've said previously, one of the best sets of par 3s I've seen in a while. That, and a higher degree of difficulty, likely put you over the top. I commend you for that. I gave it my all, but I got beat by a better course. There's no shame in that. 

Judges, if you do want to get with me offline, I'd gladly welcome a more in-depth breakdown of what specifically I can do to take my game to the next level. Feel like I've improved what I do with each course I've built, but seem to struggle finding that finishing pop, which ultimately cost me against Crazy, Reeb and Ola -- not that that's a shabby group of gents to bow out to. I'm by no means grovelling over the result, just an introspective of where I feel my design game currently sits.

I commend all the judges for the time and effort it took to play/review all the courses. Took me the better part of Labor Day weekend to give each one a cursory playthru and I know that pales to the thorough examination the judges gave each course.

Also, congrats to mrvinegar206 and jivesinator  on winning your first round match ups. Good luck to you two, Ola and Clint Kelso in the next round. Commiserations to Terry and Mitch who, like me, bid an early farewell. Same sentiments to the winners and losers in the other three brackets. 

Lastly, one more big thank you to @griff for putting on theses contests. I know you deflect a lot of the credit, but because of the behind-the-scenes work you do, we have a platform to showcase our works and receive real, honest feedback about how we can get better, which only makes the design community stronger as a whole. Hopefully you and Mrs. Griff are spared much trouble from Irma's impending arrival. 

Cheers gents, and looking forward to how the rest of the contest plays out!

I can  get on and chat if you're available...at least until this time tomorrow. If Irma cuts a bit more west then I'll be afk for a bit. let me know if/when you're available.