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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 13:14:26 GMT -5
I feel a course should be based "Solely" on design quality and not on "Any" version of its firmness choices.
That is a fault of the GNCD. With no way for the "Player" to set his own desired firmness settings, the designer is forced to keep re-publishing multiple versions of the course to suit everyone's desires.
*** sidenote *** with only 3 firmness settings on the greens and the fairways ... give the designer 9 combinations to create. Soft, is too soft, hard is to hard and medium sucks. Not much the designer can do about that. I stick with Medium settings on the green. Always. Fairways I will vary depending on the weather conditions or the length of the course ...
Sub-7000 yards I tend to do medium or soft ... do to keep roll-out shorter and artificially making course longer. This has its down fall as it makes finding fairways easy in low wind conditions, but high winds it is a bit more appreciated to find fairway while only able to drive 250 into a head wind.
The designer is forced always to make compromises if attempting to design a course to fit all the variables, and face it, without being able to set a prevailing wind direction, it is an impossible task. But I digress.
*** end of sidenote rant ***
The problem there is, the more you publish the different of the same, the more confusing the search for which course you're after, and the less chance they will ever get enough plays to become a "Handicapped" rated course ... which is a kind of a cool feature in this game to have a hole rated course. Even if it's not the best, it beats a blank.
People that down-rate a course for playing bad, or not liking the conditions on how it was set ... really do the designer an injustice for the quality of their work and efforts.
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Post by gregfordyce on Mar 3, 2017 13:20:58 GMT -5
I agree Patrick. My bad for putting this in Completed Courses.
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Post by ErixonStone on Mar 3, 2017 13:36:47 GMT -5
Not a big deal Greg. Perhaps it's a bit of a window for the player community to see the challenges we face in the design community - both as it relates to real golf and how that translates to TGC golf.
A 70 yard pitch over a deep bunker is an anxious time in real golf. In TGC it's only anxious because you had better birdie because it's almost automatic.
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Post by pyates on Mar 3, 2017 13:40:42 GMT -5
Yeah it is all good... was probably the best place to get it noticed... but the discussion has really taken which is awesome so just thinking it might be an idea
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Post by Doyley on Mar 3, 2017 16:38:11 GMT -5
Nice discussion here - carry on!
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Post by gregfordyce on Mar 3, 2017 17:05:18 GMT -5
Thank you for moving this Scott
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Post by welikeitroughnc on Mar 3, 2017 21:06:37 GMT -5
That reeb was an amazing read and honestly will change the way you design if you look at what he discusses in some of those topics especially minimalism.
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 3, 2017 21:08:54 GMT -5
Ha yeah. This hole would not work in Tgc. Bomb it right off the tee at the green. One or two putts. What is the formula for difficulty in Tgc? Crazy firm greens? Not a big deal Greg. Perhaps it's a bit of a window for the player community to see the challenges we face in the design community - both as it relates to real golf and how that translates to TGC golf. A 70 yard pitch over a deep bunker is an anxious time in real golf. In TGC it's only anxious because you had better birdie because it's almost automatic.
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 3, 2017 21:16:21 GMT -5
Or better yet, what course in Tgc represents the perfect balance of challenge and enjoyability?
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Post by gregfordyce on Mar 4, 2017 6:25:28 GMT -5
Or better yet, what course in Tgc represents the perfect balance of challenge and enjoyability? Good question. It's significant that in this discussion of golf course architecture, generally, we keep bumping up against the fact that - contrasted with TGC golf courses - many of the strategic features of RL course design cannot be executed/do not come into play in TGC due to the game's mechanics. Not really a big dig at TGC, as after all it is a video game, not RL - but definitely something we all hope is improved upon in TGC2. To answer your question RJ, in my opinion it would have to be Congressional CC (2016), or Pebble Beach (Blacks) - or Oakmont Country Club (Medium). I know you said one but there are so many... Oh - and to answer your earlier question about what RL hole is your favorite - my vote goes to either #1 at Machrihanish for the pure beauty and impressiveness of the opening tee shot over the Atlantic; or #9 at Pebble Beach, due to the interest/challenges of the downhill routing. But geez, what a tough question. There are so many nowadays....
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Post by gregfordyce on Mar 4, 2017 7:50:19 GMT -5
Just had to post these two pics from Tom Doak's Tara Iti course in New Zealand. Wow. The 17th at Tara Iti The 6th:
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 4, 2017 11:49:42 GMT -5
I think many of the major championship venues tend to challenge both real and virtual players. the 6th at pac dunes would be a birdie fest for the real pros as well. It's almost as if there needs to be a setting that replicates the plight of the average player! The 9th at pebble is a hole that would challenge in both. I think. With firm conditions the canted farirway and green protected by a bunker on the left would definitely favour shots coming from closer to the cliff. I think long par fours are a bit easier to implement some stategic shot placement. Or better yet, what course in Tgc represents the perfect balance of challenge and enjoyability? Good question. It's significant that in this discussion of golf course architecture, generally, we keep bumping up against the fact that - contrasted with TGC golf courses - many of the strategic features of RL course design cannot be executed/do not come into play in TGC due to the game's mechanics. Not really a big dig at TGC, as after all it is a video game, not RL - but definitely something we all hope is improved upon in TGC2. To answer your question RJ, in my opinion it would have to be Congressional CC (2016), or Pebble Beach (Blacks) - or Oakmont Country Club (Medium). I know you said one but there are so many... Oh - and to answer your earlier question about what RL hole is your favorite - my vote goes to either #1 at Machrihanish for the pure beauty and impressiveness of the opening tee shot over the Atlantic; or #9 at Pebble Beach, due to the interest/challenges of the downhill routing. But geez, what a tough question. There are so many nowadays....
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Post by rjwils30 on Mar 4, 2017 11:55:41 GMT -5
Great pics. Love those rumpled fairways. It's too bad there aren't many sites in the world with that much natural ground movement. quote author=" gregfordyce" source="/post/206010/thread" timestamp="1488631819"]Just had to post these two pics from Tom Doak's Tara Iti course in New Zealand. Wow. The 17th at Tara Iti The 6th: [/quote]
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Post by gregfordyce on Mar 16, 2017 6:09:19 GMT -5
Didn't expect this thread to die so quickly lol On a somewhat-but-kinda-not-related note, thought I'd share the following (since Barnbougle has been brought up in this discussion a few times). I'm on the email list for Barnbougle Dunes/Lost Farm, and this was just sent this morning: 2017 Taylormade Bass Strait MastersThis April 8-11, grab your best golf buddies and sign up to compete in the ultimate individual and team stableford golf comp, the annual TaylorMade Bass Strait Masters. Over four days, play four of Australia’s best tracks (three of which are in the top 40 courses in the world), travel on a private plane between destinations, enjoy exceptional Tasmanian food and wine and compete for a share in over $10,000 worth of prizes. Each day golfers will play a different course – Barnbougle Dunes, Barnbougle Lost Farm, Cape Wickham or Ocean Dunes. Each evening over dinner, a few local brews and plenty of laughs, winners of the individual and team stableford competition will be announced, with the overall winners announced at the final function. What’s included? Pretty much everything including: • Private airline charter around the Tasmanian golf archipelago • All on-ground transfers • Golf • 3 nights Twin share Accommodation (2 xBarnbougle Dunes + 1x King Island) • Breakfast, lunch and all drinks • Gift pack on arrival including: Taylormade shirt, balls, tees, markers, hats. • Fully catered post-golf functions each evening • $ 10,000 + worth for prizes Cost: $ 2950 per person For more information and full itinerary see: bassstraitmasters.com.au/To book please contact Vortex Air e: info@bassstraitmasters.com.au p: 1300 867 839
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Post by pyates on Mar 16, 2017 11:59:11 GMT -5
Didn't expect this thread to die so quickly lol Haha... no me neither. I've been meaning to get back in here to spark a bit more discussion. In terms of awesome golf holes/courses, I'm most drawn to links golf for many reasons previously mentioned. But I'd like to just throw a little spotlight on the 18th at The Belfry. That is a cracking finishing hole which has been a fantastic stage for many competitions not to mention Ryder Cups. The perfect drive I believe for pros is a draw around the corner, that is obscured by trees, goes over water with water also to your left if you over do it! The second shot is often a long iron over water to a 3 tier green with the stunning clubhouse as a backdrop. You can find yourself with an easy birdie putt (if such a thing exists under the extreme Ryder Cup pressure) or a tricky 2 putt / up and down. Just a brilliant strategic hole that requires precision, skill and careful planning. The 10th on that course is also a classic risk reward for the big hitters... Sergio and Lee Westwoods antics back in 2002 were just amazing moments I'll try and dig out one of my own holes at some point... let's get this discussion going again
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