Group F Judging Results & Scoreboard

[Deleted]

Designer                                                                                           Points

bigcat023                                                                                         7

welikeitroughnc                                                                               5

DoubtfulObelisk                                                                               4

michiganbuckeye                                                                            0

Bigcat (Wayne) advances as winner of Group F. Welikeitroughnc (Mitch) advances as 2nd place finisher.

[Deleted]

Greens of Aberdeen vs Wanderers Club @ Blackwater Fen

Judge 1:
Greens of Aberdeen vs Wanderers Club @ Blackwater Fen

Aberdeen

CONS: 
Over use of walls on this course, they seem to be everywhere, around bunkers, around greens around tees, maybe designer is a bricklayer in real life...who knows
Steps into bunkers are not needed and again a massive over use here. Some of the routing hole to hole was good some it was not (9th hole stood out for this). 2 strange O/B areas on 11th, if you went into the ocean here you would want a drop and not a rehit.
13th hole would not be able to reach main fairway
Everyone loves a short par 4 but on this course there were 6 par 4's under 350yds...too many
Did not like the fairways around the greens
Planting on the 17th looked haphazard and will lead to many shots where you cannot see golfer due to a bush
When finishing your round it would be nice to finish back at the clubhouse, on this course you do not and you cannot even take a walk back there.

PROS
Nice greens without being too tricky,
Play-ability for the most part was good,
Rock areas were mostly well done,
Bunkering mostly well done

Wanderers

CONS
No clubhouse at all, 1st tee is in the middle of nowhere so i assume you get a helicopter ride in to start your round and a helicopter to meet you on 18th
1st hole in a head wind above 10mph you would struggle to reach the fairway, fairways all over this course were far to narrow with some holes having double fairways that were unreachable due to trees...seemed like a waste of time putting them there.

PROS
I loved the greens and bunkering and unfortunately 

Winner even though it has many many faults would be Greens of Aberdeen

Judge 2:
Comments to be updated in near future. Winner: Blackwater Fen

[Deleted]

The Marsh at Sandfly vs Doubtful Forest

Judge 1:
The Marsh at Sandfly vs Doubtful Forest

Doubtful Forest- As you stand on the first tee you're greeted with a nice looking tees shot, rolling hills and some nice sculpting. Bunkers are also sculpted well. I also noticed As you look around off the first tee, you will also observe a clubhouse, practice putting green, walking path and cart path. Unfortunately the designer did not smooth the edges on the paths. They have very jagged edges. As you progress through the front nine you will see the designer has used a minimal designing approach. This is not a negative thing, just an observation. Behind the green of hole 7, the designer did some planting, but it did not come out successful to me. The use of purple plants and orange flowers just looks forced and not natural. The hole designs are very straight forward and don't offer a lot of thought tee to green. The greens are also very remedial and offer little challenge. I like risk reward holes in real life and in video game golf, and hole 5 is a great example on how to do a risk reward hole. If you hit the correct shot with the right wind conditions, you can get the ball pretty close on this short par 4. I took the risk and was rewarded with an eagle The best looking hole on the course for me was hole 9. Beautiful mountains in the background, the lighting, the water, the hole design...very nicely done. The finishing hole is also a gorgeous hole.

I left here with mixed emotions. The course is not bad by any means. The designer has used the natural look of the plot he chose to be the highlight here. There are some technical issues with the jagged paths and the unnatural planting on hole 7. There are some cool things the designer did, like use the same green for multiple holes. I just found the course to be very easy, with no real thought needed to score well. Could this course be used on a tour? Yes...one of the very low tours.

Score: 7.1/10

The Marsh at Sandfly

Right off the bat you understand the why the designer used the word marsh when choosing a name for his course. The first hole offers a nice opening tee shot. There are small marshes on either side of the fairway, and the natural planting works. I also notice the distinction between light and heavy rough is very poor. There are areas of the light rough that are as thin as a pencil and a couple yards away it's five or more yards wide. Looks auto-gen almost. As you move on you will see bunkers in two cuts of rough on numerous holes (2,3,4,7,9,10,12,15 etc). The designer used grass as one of his main planting choices, which is fine because of the marsh look he's trying to achieve. Unfortunately, the grass is too tall in several places. The designer used bridges in several spots as well, but did not blend them with the terrain properly, and they look bad up close. It really looks like the designer didn't know how to blend and just placed the bridges there.  I found a bright spot on hole 6, which is a risk reward hole. Gives the player a chance for an eagle on a par 4, and I was able to do just that.  I appreciate the time and effort the designers have put in...I really do. The placement of bunkers, the awful transition from light rough to heavy rough, the sharp cut off from fairway to green and fringe to green are red flags. The rock slider was turned way up which is painfully obvious as well. What in the world is happening on hole 16 with the bunkers around the green there? Retaining walls are not done well at all, and the fairway on 14...REALLY!!!!!!!?

Score: 4.8/10

Winner: Doubtful Forest


Judge 2:

The Marsh at Sandfly:
I will say I liked the look of the 18th tee box.  So the designer does have potential for the future.

Doubtful Forest:
Solid design.


Doubtful Forest wins

[Deleted]

Greens of Aberdeen vs Doubtful Forest

Judge 1:

-Greens of Aberdeen
Pros:
-Good lighting
-Some nice views off the tee on many holes
-Great bunkering for the most part
-Nice minimalist planting, liked the use of rocks around water
-Green complexes were well done. Speed/firmness/movement all somewhat challenging, albeit on the forgiving side.
-Good overall layout and hole routings - 11 being the best in my opinion.
-Liked the distant castle ruins (I think that is what they are) and the building complex/roads to the left of 18the fairway.

Cons:
-Not a fan of the brick walls around a lot of the greens and teeboxes - overdone I felt, aesthetically.
-Too many short par 4's in my view
-Purely an aesthetic thing, but I like to see a clubhouse somewhere around the 18th green. A golfer would have a very long walk to it after his/her round on this course.

Overall, a good, solid course that is nice to look at and enjoyable to play. Put together, however, it didn't really stand out as extraordinary; I gave it a 7.

Doubtful Forest
Pros:
-Some unique routings on several holes. 12, 18 are good examples.
-Great looking finishing hole, view off the tee is spectacular
-Greens played well, although unchallenging.


Cons:
-Fringe around the greens is almost non-existent and none at all around fairways. No rule there has to be, but I find this to be rather brutal, to go from fairway immediately to heavy rough. Around the greens it also appears to go from green directly to heavy rough, but there really is a tiny 3-4 inch fringe; lacks a clean look.
-Regarding the false greens with the signposts on them next to every green on the course, complete with fairway run-off areas - some connected to the real greens, some sitting 20-80 yards away on their own.....I'm assuming these are alternate/tournament greens, but in my opinion they are extremely distracting.
-Bunkers need smoothing. Many are uneven and chunky-looking.
-Hardly any planting done - which by itself is ok - but the few places where it is, looks downright ugly. Good example is the hill next to the 7th green.
-Some greens have hardly any movement at all within 10-15 feet of the hole, 10 being a good example. Not sure if intentional or not.
-Teeboxes are confusing - on some holes I appear to be teeing off on the front teebox, on others I am on the back teebox. Since the tee choice was logs instead of a color, I cannot be sure however.

Overall, this just had a very unfinished feel to it. I think with some effort this could be a good course, but as is it just doesn't work. I gave it a 4.

Winner: Greens of Aberdeen

Judge 2:

I spoke with ******** yesterday and told him I was going to hold off on my review until he posted his because I was feeling somewhat apprehensive on posting my feelings regarding Doubtful Forest.
His review hit every issue I had with this course.
First thing I noticed was no 2nd cut to be found on course, other than a smitten of 'green fringe' it went from fairway to heavy rough. Not opposed to this as it could make for a very interesting round in hurricane winds
Being a forest themed course the lack of any planting left no beauty to the eye of the beholder.In terms of eye candy, there was nothing to be found.
Most importantly I wanted to see what ****** thought about this second greens because I was totally confused as to their purpose and they looked so out of place. If they were meant to be alternate greens, then I would remove the  directional signs.
Moving on I also noticed the inconstancy with tee boxes. I would not have minded so much, but one minute I had for example an amateur tee box in view and then the next hole nothing to be found.

Greens were average, not to hard given the fast green speed listed. Could have amped it up a bit on a few holes. Course had me thinking about placement off the tee on several holes.I got the extreme winds in my testing of the course it was challenging on some shots tee to a safe spot on fairway.
Overall not a horrid design, but needs a bit of polishing. 
I give it a 5.5 out of 10

Greens of Aberdeen
The view from the first tee is breathtaking, l loved the choice of textures and lighting. I felt transported to a land of beauty.  
Once again I agree with my partner on his assessment of the course. From smooth bunkers, to planting and views off tee everything seemed to fit nicely into this course. Greens were exceptional in my opinion. Depending on where you landed they could pose a challenge for a mediocre player as myself.
I think there is a bit of overuse of brick wall and stairs on some holes, and could tame that down some. 
I just enjoy this course so my rating would be 7.5 out of 10

Winner Greens of Aberdeen

[Deleted]

Wanderers Club @ Blackwater Fen vs The Marsh at Sandfly

Judge 1:
Wanderers Club at Blackwood Fen vs. The Marsh at Sandfly....

Wanderers Club......

Gad, the first thing i do on a course is go into fly mode and check tee to green to next tee box and layout as to location of clubhouse...
This course has no clubhouse and is almost impossible to find the next tee box......that said, let's get started.....

Pros.....
loved the deadwood in the water..
lighting was good..
liked that shot shaping was needed on many holes..
#15 was, imo, an exceptionally well put together hole..
Cons.....
Opening statement was the HUGE negative...
Some f/w's i thought a little narrow...

Comments......
I can't emphasize enough my thoughts on layout and lack of clubhouse..
The game takes you to the next tee box, but a serious course must show the layout easily accessible.....

The Marsh at Sandfly.......

Pros....
Love the concept..this is a great marsh course...imo...well done.

Cons....
right off the top, the bunkers at 1st green do not look good...unfinished, unpolished..
do not like the 1st cut so uneven throughout the whole course..

Comments...
This may have sounded a tad harsh, but to be very serious...it wasn't...
I absolutely love this concept and believe that with some extra work..you have a really good course in the making..
Get the ground crew to pick up some of those smaller rocks, that also do not help the look...


WINNER.....

Wanderers Club at Blackwood Fen.....

Judge 2:
Wanderers club @ blackwater fen v The marsh at sandfly

Wanderers club @ blackwater fen

The course was a joy to play feel it would be a great stop for pga or euro, really
enjoyed the tough tee shots on holes 2,5,9,10 14 makes you really think over your tee shot,would say hole 6 the tee shot was tad extreme adding a little room to the right would make it play abit fairer, the risk reward shots where also enjoyable with the water in play. the greens where tough but not tricked up. overall really enjoyable tough but fair course. rating 9

The marsh at sandfly

The layout was nice looking and there was some good holes with tough tee shots and some
tough approaches but for me was just ruined by the greens quite a few pins where stuck on top of slopes with alot of double breaking putts. felt like i was playing a beta not
a finished version of a course. rating 5

WINNER, WANDERERS CLUB @ BLACKWATER FEN

[Deleted]

Greens at Aberdeen vs The Marsh at Sandfly

Judges 1 & 2:
Match Up: Greens Of Aberdeen vs The Marsh At Sandfly

Greens Of Aberdeen

Pros:
Stepping on the first tee is a pleasure. Lovely, inviting downhill par 4 with great views, some nice little pot bunkers with steps up the left, and you pan out to have a look around and see you're playing in what looks to be an estuary with some ruins and dwellings up by the river mouth - it's a really nice look. This is then backed up when you get to the second tee, another great looking hole - a short par 4 with 3 very nice bunkers guarding the green. It's a really good start to what is generally a fun round of golf. The greens really stand out as being very well done, there's some nice rock work around the place starting on the 3rd hole and continuing throughout, and some great elevation changes, particularly some good downhill holes. After the first two holes 9 and 16 also stood out as being really good holes, water in play on both and more good bunkering on 16.

Cons:
Sadly, after those first two holes you start to notice a few things that just aren't quite right. Seems to be a massive amount of walls everywhere, walls round greens that are only guarding out of bounds areas, walls round tees, there's even a small fence around a fairway bunker on 2, what's that all about? Some really strange blobs of out of bounds areas start cropping up - I can only assume that the rocky areas over the greens are OOB because of potential glitch issues? But then why aren't all of them done? On the long par 3 12th there's an area of OOB just to the left of the tee in the water, would be one hell of a shank to get it in there! Then you realise golf shoes and a trolley are going to be no good around here, you're going to need walking boots and crampons! The steps leading up the tee boxes are huge, poor old Ian Woosnam would have no chance without someone giving him a leg up. I know it's only an aesthetic thing but I like to see my walk around the course. There's a cart path to nowhere off the 3rd green and often the only way of getting about is climbing over the terrain, nowhere more so than when you finish your round and fancy a nice pint in the clubhouse only to realise you can see it in the distance but have no way of getting there - it'd be like that scene in Ice Cold In Alex by the time you got there! Then I noticed a few very straight lines in the terrain - there's an island just off the coast by the 10th and 11th with two ruler-straight lines down each side, same with the coast around the 12th green, not in keeping with the look that is trying to be achieved. From a playing point of view there's maybe a few too many short par 4's (8 under 400 yards), although there are at least 2 long par 3's to counteract this. The 13th fairway is a little unfair - it's one of the tightest drives on the course but if you manage to hit it the ball kicks viciously to the right and probably ends up in the rough anyway. And then the 18th, for all the flaws this is still a fun course to play and very easy on the eye, I came to the 18th tee wondering what was in store only to find probably the worst hole on the entire course. A straightforward, easily reachable par 5 with nothing in play and no eye candy except a few sheep, very disappointing.

Overall:
I'm sorry to write so many cons but it's because I'm annoyed! Greens of Aberdeen is a nice concept and a fun course but should be so much better than it is, and it's all little things that stop it being so. With some tweaking it could be an absolute gem, as it is I scored it a fairly generous 7.2

The Marsh At Sandfly

Pros:
First of all, credit has to go to the designer for making such a brave choice of concept - he (or she) has got to know that playing golf in a marsh is not going to be everybody's cup of tee. The course itself has a nice mixture of short and long holes, and a certain amount of strategy is required to make sure you don't end up playing your next shot from behind a tree. I enjoyed the greens, you can get away with giving people double-breaking putts if they are receptive and the speed is only 159. There are some nice holes in there, I thought 11 especially stood out - a potentially drivable par 4 with a good element of risk/reward and a perfectly acceptable lay-up area if you wussed out! Some nice finishing holes too, I thought 16, 17 and 18 were all good holes. I also really liked the derelict boat with grass growing through in front of the 12th green, a very nice touch.

Cons:
It's a brave concept but I'm not sure it's quite worked. The whole course feels extremely haphazard. The ribbons of semi rough are very untidy in places, the bunkers don't look right, I think the colours don't look right for the marsh theme (although I am slightly colourblind so that could just be me!), it just didn't look very natural to me. As a course there are some good holes but also a fair few where the only thing you've got to worry about is your sight lines, and then there's the 14th fairway which really is not something I expect to see at this level, like driving down a funnel. And a small point, I'd love to know how you get on the 5th green without getting your feet wet?

Overall:
Nice try, a bit more order to things would make a big difference plus a bit of tidying and maybe a spot of chopping. I scored it 6.7

"We're in agreement again, although your scoring has it a closer match than me. You hit the nail on the head with your write-ups and I don't have much to add. Aberdeen started out really, really strong. Sure, the technical flaws started to pile up as the round went on but no so much as to keep it from winning this round since The Marsh at Sandfly didn't put up much of a fight. Simple really, one felt like a golf course and one didn't. The golf course wins: Greens of Aberdeen."

Our winner is Greens Of Aberdeen

[Deleted]

Wanderers Club at Blackwater Fen vs Doubtful Forest

Judge 1:

Wanderers Club @ Blackwater Fen vs Doubtful Forest

Wanderers Club:

Love the sculpting here.. bold.. catches your eye on a lot of the shots. THe opening tee shot here doesn't really drag you in.. and the lack of buildings here is more noticeable than I thought it would be. Tee shots require shot making and fairways are narrow, so that leads to difficulty (not saying that is a bad thing). Water features here look nice.. and the lighting really adds to some of the looks.

Doubtful:

While I love the idea of 2 greens on every hole, I found the pins and signage distracting. Love the idea.. think the execution missed. Heavy rough galore. Minimal planting, while works in some cases, leaves you wanting more in other cases. Some of the greens that are connected make for massive green complexes. I like the possibility of multi pinned here using some of the other greens.. could be some really new looks.

Tough one...For me this is difficult course vs easy... while I would play them both again... and wouldn't mind seeing Doubtful in a tour with multipinned... I think

Wanderers club has to get the nod on this match up for me. Doubtful has a lot of potential, but in its current state didn't keep my interest as much as Wanderers did.. so Wanderers gets the nod from me.

Judge 2:
Doubtful forest vs wanderers club

Doubtful

Already have questions about dual greens. If you end up on green that is not in use, do you pitch off of it, move ball, what? Seems like you'd be repairing green divots non stop.

Seems to be devoid of planting

Greens and holes well designed

Bunkers a little bland, but solid.

Hard to comment on specific holes, nothing really jumps out.

Then hole 7 comes. Not really digging the odd, segregated planting here. Liked it better when there was nothing.

Hole 8 and 9 back to solid. Can't really fault design, and holes being mixed up nicely.

Back 9 is all very well routed. Greens are mild and score able. An immensely playable course, but really no atmosphere being built at all.

Unfortunate that there is really no planting. Nothing to draw your eye or frame holes. No real big elevation changes either just makes for a bit of a ho-hum round.

Fairway could definitely have cleaner edges in spots. Very noticeable on 18. That said...an exciting finish with 17 and 18.

Overall, a player's course...As it's very fair and easy to score on. Not sure you would have too many repeat customers though as the round lacks a bit of excitement and the course itself is very drab.

Wanderers

Nice planted look right off the bat, but fairways are very rough. Not great when you can tell exactly what brush shapes have been used.

Nice opening hole though. Unique layout, nice look...Just wish fairway was wider and smoother.

#2 another skinny fairway. Amateurs would struggle.

Like the bunker style so far. Clean look with clear punishment.

Hole 4 just too hard IMO. Drive to a razor thin fairway, draw approach around tree. Even with wind help, a tough task.

Some sculpting on bunkers on far right side of 5 too severe. Ground is quite jagged. Another near impossible drive.

Front 9 all sticks close to theme....But just too punishing.

Hole 11 would qualify for one of the tougher holes in game. Fairway a sliver, plus a 200 yd approach.

I feel like this designer may have forgotten that wind exists. I don't think there's been one wide fairway. Fine idea if the pros are coming for the open, but it really limits who can enjoy the course.

Planting continues to be very good.

15 finally a bit wider and open, and the course really shines. Wish it was done sooner in round

18 another inexplicably wide fairway. Great to see, but why only 2 holes?

Overall, a nice theme for a course, sculpting mostly paid off, though a few edges ran off a bit too steep. Biggest problem was playability, as some fairways would just be torture to hit safely in wind, and were! Greens were well done, and nice visuals around the course.

An incredibly tough choice, one looks better, the other plays better. But I have to go with what plays best, so DOUBTFUL FOREST wins for me.

[welikeitroughnc]

Good luck to my fellow competitors obie Wayne and buckeye I hope we all take all this feedback and improve our designing with it. All great courses and all 4 are different be interesting to see this outcome.

[bigcat023]

And the best of luck to you welikeitrough great course you put out.Good luck also obie and buckeye nice work

[Moe Slorkman]

Moe Slorkmans Picks (Will be shocked if correct/Picks predate results didn't have time over weekend)


1. bigcat023
2. DoubtfulObelisk

[welikeitroughnc]

Don't think moe likes my course design lol

[GrumpyOldMan]

Looks like I have a uphill battle, but I learned a few things, that's for sure. Good luck to all my completion, hopefully I will get to know all you guys in the future.

[welikeitroughnc]

This waiting is worse than watching paint dry........

[Moe Slorkman]

Jan 9, 2017 17:15:12 GMT -5 welikeitroughnc said:

Don't think moe likes my course design lol

I prefer the other 2 but I've gotten every group bar 1 wrong so far so you've a good chance 😂

[Hootbleet]

Jan 11, 2017 17:22:28 GMT -5 welikeitroughnc said:

This waiting is worse than watching paint dry........

Just wait until you're waiting for the last result from a judge to see if you made it through or not. Oh, and there's no notification, you just have to keep checking the thread. Glad my group is done and dusted, good luck