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Post by seamount4life on Jul 13, 2015 2:30:19 GMT -5
Ice rinks for greens? Seriously, is this the only way to make the course challenging or something? to make is so the greens don't hold any approach shots? I'm not asking for it to be a dart throwing contest but for @!$#s sake, you make long par 4's so I am hitting long irons in to the green, then you put a bunker in front so I can't land it short and roll it up. So I have to fly the bunker and in doing so it rolls off the back of the green EVERY TIME. I played a practice round at the Rye Bay course for the HB studios tournament and I was chipping damn near on every hole because I rolled through the green because it was borderline impossible to actually hold the green on the approach shot. It damn near makes the course unplayable, and when they fix the lofting/delofting to make it more difficult it will.
Can't you just dial down the firmness/speed a couple notches so it is still fast but can at least hold an approach shot?
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Post by tastegw on Jul 13, 2015 2:43:05 GMT -5
With the new green firmness option, you will start seeing more receptive greens from most designers who wants firm fairways
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Post by seamount4life on Jul 13, 2015 2:48:15 GMT -5
Yeah that should help. Do they only have a couple settings available to them? or is it a 1-10 firmness scale? because if this is 10 then an 8 would probably be perfect most of the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 3:15:03 GMT -5
Only 3 firmness settings I believe. Soft, medium and firm. The dial is not a gradual increase. Greens speeds, however, go up slowly from 4.5ft to 8.5ft on the stimp meter.
And yes, if you've designed for a long iron approach then sticking a bunker in front is pretty stupid. If it's firm settings then bunker in front is pretty bad for anything longer than 8-iron really unless you move the bunker further back 10 or 20 yards into the fairways like real links courses to allow some run up. Soft settings may be able to pull if off though.
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Post by fuzion on Jul 13, 2015 5:19:06 GMT -5
If we want to stop playing on super firm greens, we need to write on the HB forums explaining that we need more than three firmness settings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 7:25:16 GMT -5
Firm greens are hard to pull off for sure. The difference from medium fo firm seems rather big indeed. As a loose rule, the firmer the green the bigger the green should be. I've played many courses where the course would have been much better with either softer conditions, more suitablely sized greens, different sloped greens (ie not front to back) or slower greens. Firm with fast greens is hard to pull off perfectly, yet to really see one one. Connon Hills had great firm settings but they were slowish green. Firm and fast is the way to pull off a harder challenge it's just hard to design one that doesn't feel unrewarding.
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 13, 2015 8:05:22 GMT -5
This is a big limiting factor for the game. Medium is too soft and firm is too..firm.... In most cases.
Making a tour worthy pin set up on a medium course is difficult but Turing it to firm is not any steadier as it in many cases creates the wrong kind of difficulty.
Greens must be sculpted to fit the firmness - and with only three settings this limits the types of greens that are really tour worthy a lot.
A granular firmness slider would probably be the single most valuable thing for this game right now. Especially since HB seems to be against any type of challenging swing mechanic or variance in the game.
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Post by seamount4life on Jul 13, 2015 13:29:14 GMT -5
Only 3 firmness settings I believe. Soft, medium and firm. The dial is not a gradual increase. Greens speeds, however, go up slowly from 4.5ft to 8.5ft on the stimp meter. Ok, well there is my answer right there. Didn't realize there was only 3 settings. Yes there desperately needs to be a setting between medium and firm or best case scenario a 1-10 meter that the designer can choose from.
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
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Post by reebdoog on Jul 13, 2015 13:36:20 GMT -5
Ice rinks for greens? Seriously, is this the only way to make the course challenging or something? to make is so the greens don't hold any approach shots? I'm not asking for it to be a dart throwing contest but for @!$#s sake, you make long par 4's so I am hitting long irons in to the green, then you put a bunker in front so I can't land it short and roll it up. So I have to fly the bunker and in doing so it rolls off the back of the green EVERY TIME. I played a practice round at the Rye Bay course for the HB studios tournament and I was chipping damn near on every hole because I rolled through the green because it was borderline impossible to actually hold the green on the approach shot. It damn near makes the course unplayable, and when they fix the lofting/delofting to make it more difficult it will. Can't you just dial down the firmness/speed a couple notches so it is still fast but can at least hold an approach shot? Three of mine have those greens. Elmview because it was for the US Open and it simply matched what was asked for Swindon Downs: The Open because it was requested after the original Swindon Downs was created Bison Run (the four tournament day editions) - this was requested as a trial run for the firm/fast conditions. It was kind of a trial run of firm/fast to see how it would work in tournament play because the course held up to the conditions well. The only course I've ever made firm and fast from the get go was Elmview. All the others have been soft or medium. So...yeah...not everybody does it and it's not on every course. My suggestion? Talk to the folks creating the tournaments. firm Fast is totally playable...but the greens have to be made in such a way that you can hold it from distance. Is it harder? Sure...but with proper shot shaping a shot landing on the green will hold. *shrug*. Usually folks will create a members or softer version of a course. Find that one when you're playing for fun.
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Post by mcbogga on Jul 13, 2015 18:11:40 GMT -5
Bison and Swindon both play better firm....
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Post by Brighttail on Jul 16, 2015 17:33:24 GMT -5
With the new green firmness option, you will start seeing more receptive greens from most designers who wants firm fairways There used to be only 3 levels of firmness.. how many are there now?
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Post by Brighttail on Jul 16, 2015 17:37:04 GMT -5
Ice rinks for greens? Seriously, is this the only way to make the course challenging or something? to make is so the greens don't hold any approach shots? I'm not asking for it to be a dart throwing contest but for @!$#s sake, you make long par 4's so I am hitting long irons in to the green, then you put a bunker in front so I can't land it short and roll it up. So I have to fly the bunker and in doing so it rolls off the back of the green EVERY TIME. I played a practice round at the Rye Bay course for the HB studios tournament and I was chipping damn near on every hole because I rolled through the green because it was borderline impossible to actually hold the green on the approach shot. It damn near makes the course unplayable, and when they fix the lofting/delofting to make it more difficult it will. Can't you just dial down the firmness/speed a couple notches so it is still fast but can at least hold an approach shot? Three of mine have those greens. Elmview because it was for the US Open and it simply matched what was asked for Swindon Downs: The Open because it was requested after the original Swindon Downs was created Bison Run (the four tournament day editions) - this was requested as a trial run for the firm/fast conditions. It was kind of a trial run of firm/fast to see how it would work in tournament play because the course held up to the conditions well. The only course I've ever made firm and fast from the get go was Elmview. All the others have been soft or medium. So...yeah...not everybody does it and it's not on every course. My suggestion? Talk to the folks creating the tournaments. firm Fast is totally playable...but the greens have to be made in such a way that you can hold it from distance. Is it harder? Sure...but with proper shot shaping a shot landing on the green will hold. *shrug*. Usually folks will create a members or softer version of a course. Find that one when you're playing for fun. THIS!! Firm greens are fine. If you have a firm green and an average shot of 150 into the green with winds, you need 10-20 yards to stop depending on the wind, unless you use like a lofted 3iron or something. When you get to a shot of 190-210 yards, you really really need either a big green to receive the shot, decent amount of rough before the green to bounce up, an open fairway to bounce up to or humps that you can hit that will take off the speed. As was stated when making a course that has firm greens you really need to start the course from scratch most times to make a course that will be fair. It is very, very difficult to make a course that was designed for softer greens, more firm and still be fair.
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Post by firstblitzer on Jul 16, 2015 17:37:23 GMT -5
With the new green firmness option, you will start seeing more receptive greens from most designers who wants firm fairways There used to be only 3 levels of firmness.. how many are there now? There is still only three, greens are now just separated from the fairways, so can have firm fairways and soft greens etc etc
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Post by Brighttail on Jul 16, 2015 17:38:22 GMT -5
There used to be only 3 levels of firmness.. how many are there now? There is still only three, greens are now just separated from the fairways, so can have firm fairways and soft greens etc etc Ah.. I hope in the future they make 5 or 6 levels of firmness. Doing this would make is easier and more fair to take a course with softer conditions firm and still be fair.
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Post by tastegw on Jul 16, 2015 17:41:32 GMT -5
There is still only three, greens are now just separated from the fairways, so can have firm fairways and soft greens etc etc Ah.. I hope in the future they make 5 or 6 levels of firmness. Doing this would make is easier and more fair to take a course with softer conditions firm and still be fair. click the course in my sig, it shows how fast firm fairways and softer receptive greens can make a course much more enjoyable to play.
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