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Post by eMLBCommish on Apr 23, 2015 16:41:00 GMT -5
Gentlemen,
I've taken some time to sit back and watch the Tour develop. As I expected, I am a fledgling PGA Tour Card holder with personal goals to challenge me. I enjoy every minute of it, sometimes even more than the league I run elsewhere. The competition is more fair, in my opinion.
However, there's one thing I find VERY frustrating and unrealistic: The Q-School Cut Lines
On the eve of the retail release, I propose the Q-School Cut Lines need a very hard look.
My reasoning? Simple. Anyone who shoots under for 6 rounds qualifies for the PGA or Euro Tour. THAT IS RIDICULOUS NOW!!!
From the Q-School section:
Q-School Cut Lines
1-under and better = Choice of PGA or Euro Tour (you will select this after submitting your Round 6 score)
Even to 15 over = Web.com Tour A card
16 over to 30 over = Web.com Tour B card
31 over to 45 over = Web.com Tour C card
46 over to 75 over = Champions Tour A card
75 over and up = Champions Tour B card
It is my personal opinion that this is now a recipe for disaster on several levels.
1) An individual who shoots -1 for the 6 rounds is likely to be slaughtered on the Tour against the Top Tier talent. This will create more discouragement like we saw very early on from those who can't handle being a second fiddle. 2) Just this week alone, I'm seeing TEN individuals who found their way to TGCT competing on the PGA Tour event and it's their first official tournament. At this point in time, I feel there is enough talent in the lower levels that should be able to use their sponsor exemptions to compete. Not trying to necessarily discriminate against the unranked people, I just feel those who have been around longer should have priority potential instead of a Q-School result. 3) Perhaps the argument needs to be made to increase the amount of sponsor exemption eligible people from the lower tiers.
I'm guessing I'm in the minority on this, but I really think the following example of a Cut Line makes more sense:
13-under and better = PGA or Euro (Averaging just over -2 per round) 12-under to 6 over = Web.com Tour A (I'd assume these guys falling here have more potential to land an exemption to move up) 7 over to 25 over = Web.com Tour B 26 over to 44 over = Web.com Tour C 45 over to 65 over = Champions Tour A 66 over and up = Champions Tour B (I assume this will fill up quick with new people, and will always best be seen as a feeder league...TGCT is designed to give many people a shot at moving up)
Again, no disrespect intended. We have 4 figures of people here. I think the Tour needs to now adjust to its play field and the expectations we see. If the Cut Lines remain as is, I feel you're setting a Majority up to fail. Someone who shoots -13 or better deserves to join us right away.
As of this post proposal, 197 People (myself included) accomplished a -13 or better that completed all 6 Rounds of Q-School. This isn't unrealistic to propose, in my opinion.
I'd love to hear what others think, and I'd to propose this change be effective BEFORE the game goes out to Retail. Personally, I want to see people coming up to face us at the top tier with a ranking and history earning his way. Less of the "Silver Spoon outta Q-School" please, because of the TEN who qualified for Q-School, only ONE will make the cut in the PGA this week.
What do you think? I've added a poll.
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Post by sirvalkyerie on Apr 23, 2015 17:33:39 GMT -5
I agree. I'm in Champ A because I freaking stunk up Q School. I'm also not great at the game. The Q School cuts should be adjusted to help keep a flood of guys out of the PGA Tour. It should be something people get to with progression. Maybe open it up so people can retake Q School every two months or so.
I also think there may be need for another tour between Web A and the top two (maybe Asian, Austrlasian or Sunshine especially with the incoming Tropical and Asian themes) but that's probably a discussion for a different thread
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Post by drivert on Apr 23, 2015 18:46:20 GMT -5
I had a thought that maybe there should be a new members tour that you need to play on for something like four weeks. This tour would play the same courses as the PGA each week and based on your score after 3 or 4 weeks you are moved to an appropriate tour. I am sure there are holes in this idea but it was just a thought I had.
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Post by Tim on Apr 23, 2015 20:48:18 GMT -5
We are getting ready to change the courses soon and align these with the some of the courses we play on those tours -- more info coming soon, but we are making changes to this.
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Post by theduke21 on Apr 24, 2015 1:01:56 GMT -5
Even though this rule change would've hurt me, I agree. I, for one, shot -2 in Q-School just a couple of weeks ago. I thought I played really badly and was shocked to know I deserved a PGA Tour Card. Thankfully that play doesn't represent the player I am. I'm now 3-3 on PGA Tour cuts and am actually in T-15 through 3 rounds this week - though I threw up a complete stinker in round 4 that'll probably drop me down to 30's or 40's. That's about where I find my max potential right now is around the 30's. But I am an exception and a lot of guys play great golf to achieve that under par score for 6 rounds and then think those couple under par rounds will be successful on the tour. They aren't. I think the change would certainly make the tour a bit more exclusive and special for the people finding success on it.
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Post by dh-nufc on Apr 24, 2015 5:10:51 GMT -5
I've voted 'yes' for this but I also think it has to go alongside a mechanism for fast tracking members up the tours just in case they played the worst 6 rounds ever in Q-school or they vastly improve in a short space of time. On one hand you have people on the PGA tour who have no or little chance of making the cut you also have people on Champion-A tour winning with scores in the -30s and -40s.
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Post by eMLBCommish on Apr 24, 2015 8:32:26 GMT -5
My point is this: We have enough members, and data, that 12 people out of Q-School started their career in the Top Tier (10 PGA, 2 Euro), and that only TWO of those 12 made the cut. This shouldn't be happening, in fairness to the other plugging their way through the system. In my opinion, the two who made the cut should be there. The others should be in a lower tier tour.
The current system out of Q-School sets people up to fail. It has nothing to do with changing courses. The bar needs to be raised to temper expectations, and also provide a more solid result and experience. Someone who qualifies out of Q-School under something closer to my suggestion has truly earned it. It's a very small sample size, but if 10 of 12 miss their respective cuts this week, chances are that's not far off from how the future holds.
Let's position this to be truly earned, and then look at whether or not an amendment to the Sponsor Exemptions provides the "trickle up" we want to provide the lower tiers. I would rather see the story told of the Web.com player on a streak, that he earns a spot in the Tour of choice.
Right now, there's too many stories of the Bill Murray "Caddyshack Cinderella Story" and not enough growth provided from the feeder leagues. Thanks for reading, and your thoughts so far.
LB
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Post by RTA MAN on Apr 24, 2015 9:20:59 GMT -5
I would like to make a suggestion in regards to the our tour cards and how we might go about earning them.
1st) The champ B level I think their are a number of people that would enjoy casual play for their enjoyment or with friends at their leisure. They really are not out for competing at the top pro level. As a result I think champ B level should stay the same with the 4 round competition.
2nd) The champ A level would be for the ones that like to be a little more competitive. As a result of this, I think champ A level should have a 3 round competition with a cut after round 2. This level would be for the ones that have the desire of one day playing on the top pro level. Now how do we get there? We must earn our way through practice and competition. Lets talk about advancements. Once the golfer has 3 wins they are to be moved to web C level. Another means to advance would be having no wins but by having 5 top ten placements would be moved to web C level no exemptions are needed.
3rd) The web B and C levels should be combined as one with a 4 round event with a cut after round 2. As for advancement, At this level the stakes are higher because of skill level being higher. Once the golfer has 4 wins they are to be moved to web A level. Another means of advancement would be having no wins but by having 10 top 5 placements. There for no exemptions are needed.
4th) The web A level these are the people knocking on the door of fame and fortune. Once at this level the exemptions should and only come into play toward advancement. As a result the exemption rule stands: 1 round 56 or better. 2 rounds 59 or better. 4 rounds 61 or better. At which time an exemption is earned. Only the top 3 playing with exemptions after the cut shall have earned a pro tour card.
I would like to thank all the people for all the hard work and time to make this such a great event that we partake in
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 10:01:50 GMT -5
Hi guys. New member here (but long time lurker) so please be gentle! I played Q-School a couple of months ago as a bit of fun (didn't want to join TGCT until I felt I could be at least a wee bit competitive) and finished the 6 rounds a few shots shy of +100 (yes 100 OVER par!).
With continued practice I felt my game had improved somewhat so I decided to join TGCT. I completed the April Q-School a few days ago in -18, a massive improvement which in the process earned me a PGA Tour card, which I was completely chuffed about..................... until I saw the top Q-School scores!
Having seen a definite improvement in my game over the months I would have said I had gone from a below average TGC player to a decent if not good TGC player. However, taking the top scores into account, I no longer feel that is the case and there is not a cat in hells chance that I'm going to compete with the elite and it's probably fair to say that I'm even going to struggle to make the cuts!
So on that note, I do agree that the cut lines should definitely be lowered. The PGA/Euro Tours should be for the creme de la creme of players and not for a mule like me lagging at the back of the field falling further and further behind!
Cheers.
Paul
PS. And kudos to the team running TGCT. It's absolutely perfect and you're doing a great job!
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wood1341
Caddy
Posts: 57
TGCT Name: Mark Wood
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Post by wood1341 on Apr 26, 2015 20:29:21 GMT -5
Hey I'm a new member with a Euro Tour card. I can already tell by looking at the scores that I'm not going to really compete on this tour. I scored -6 (I think) at Q-school. By looking at past results on most of the Web.com tours, I can see I probably wouldn't even really compete on those tours. I really love this site and tour already. I just want a chance to be able to compete for top 10s on whatever tour it is I'm on. I would definitely agree that the cut lines should be different. I would even side on a tougher cut line than the one suggested. I've rarely scored below 60. These top players are consistently scoring in the 50s.
(I commend all you low scoring players)
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Post by ninanilson on Apr 27, 2015 5:18:34 GMT -5
Another Suggestion:
Why not takting the Web B, web C and Champions tours as real "Feeders" for the upper tours by putting all players having finished Q-School in one of them first, and NOT in the Web A, PGA or Euro ?
So that all new Players have to earn a higher tour Card by climbing up ...
This would help even more to maintain equal numbers of participants to all tours and put the players at a level appropriate to their skills - since you can only climb up and never go down (only by asking for it, or by disqualification)
Which suggests another idea: establish a rule by which you are demoted to a lower tour if the results in the higher are not good enough. Such as, for instance: demotion to the next lower Level after 5 cuts missed in a row. (I've posted this also under "tgctours.proboards.com/thread/2913/proposal-school-change-cut-lines" - since eMLBCommish started the thread in the "Suggestion box")
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Post by sirvalkyerie on Apr 27, 2015 10:01:11 GMT -5
That'd be awful. If you're good enough to play in the PGA Tour than you should be there. Q School scores should determine where you are as is, they just need to be more stringent.
Imagine some guy crushes Q School but has to start in Champ A or Web B anyway. What's the point of everyone else playing those tournaments if this guy is just gonna roll right through them because he's too good for that level anyway?
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Post by drivert on Apr 27, 2015 12:40:25 GMT -5
This is why I thought my idea of a 4 week q school tour might be a good solution . Based on your performance in that tour you get a card for the tour that best suits your ability. If shoot 58-60 every round PGA if you shoot 80 plus champions B
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Post by dgreenpepper on Apr 27, 2015 14:04:50 GMT -5
This is why I thought my idea of a 4 week q school tour might be a good solution . Based on your performance in that tour you get a card for the tour that best suits your ability. If shoot 58-60 every round PGA if you shoot 80 plus champions B While I think this is a good idea in theory, as someone who is about to play Q-School this will turn off some potential site members. I dont yet have the game (picking it up tomorrow) but I know the first thing I will be doing is start practicing for Q-school so I can start playing tournaments ASAP. I dont think people will want to wait an entire month to get onto the tour that suits them. On another note, from what I've been reading it seems that you cannot immediately get your PGA/Euro tour card, but exemptions to play a couple of events and try to place in the Top-3 of exempt players to earn your card. Top tour card you can receive is Web A.
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Post by eMLBCommish on Apr 27, 2015 15:56:28 GMT -5
While I think this is a good idea in theory, as someone who is about to play Q-School this will turn off some potential site members. I dont yet have the game (picking it up tomorrow) but I know the first thing I will be doing is start practicing for Q-school so I can start playing tournaments ASAP. I dont think people will want to wait an entire month to get onto the tour that suits them. On another note, from what I've been reading it seems that you cannot immediately get your PGA/Euro tour card, but exemptions to play a couple of events and try to place in the Top-3 of exempt players to earn your card. Top tour card you can receive is Web A. Please re-read my first post. That is straight from the Q-School Rules. You currently just have to shoot -1 for the entire tourney and you can get your PGA or Euro Tour Card. So, you're interpretation of what you read is not entirely accurate. This is why I propose you raise the bar, so as to limit shell shock, and to more appropriately place new talent, while incentivizing the existing talent more. Anyone who thinks like sirvalkyrie is just not getting the purpose of this thread. I'm not trying to screw anyone...in fact, I'm trying to protect both the community and staff from apathy and being overwhelmed. The current qualifications are, in my opinion, the term "Eyes are bigger than your stomach". A -1 in 6 rounds of Q-School qualifier will probably make 1 in 10 cuts. Not a very satisfying statistic. BTW, I shot -17 in the initial Q-School, and safely landed on the PGA Tour. I've barely made half my cuts, and have not qualified for any of the Major events thus far. So, I feel I speak from experience that this is better for TGCT as a whole. If my proposal were seriously considered, then I would assume that individual will most likely have similar results as I do, and rightfully deserves to start right at the PGA or Euro Tour. I play 10 rounds a week competitively, so I trust that while I'm not the elite, I'm not losing my PGA Card, my primary goal and motivator.
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