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Post by sroel908 on May 5, 2021 8:52:58 GMT -5
I have to completely disagree with you, in terms of HB/2K doing a "great job catering to their communities". Honestly, if TGCT was that important to HB/2K, wouldn't this red fast fix have come much earlier than EIGHT MONTHS AFTER REALEASE? TGCT players have been asking, if not begging, for HB to fix this since release. Instead, the devs claimed all was working as intended and no change would be coming. So people who played red fasts kept doing their thing without any implication what they were doing was "wrong". Long forum threads here ensued and a lot of back-and-forth debate about red fasts went on and on for about eight months. Only then, after EA released info they were rejoining the virtual golf world, a secretive, quick, and vague server-side change came out of nowhere. It was only explained here on TGCT sites, and the official tweet didn't give any details on the update. To me, the sudden change of heart is an attempt to retain people who play on TGCT from jumping ship to the game EA will release, due to the fact that the red fasts were viewed by that group as "cheese" and an exploit. It was a move to do some "late in the game's lifecycle" damage control in my eyes. Anyway, I've now been a part of multiple thread hijackings here, so I will stop now...for the time being anyway! I believe you make a fair point in the timing of this sudden change of heart, but can you blame them? If a new competitor emerges wouldn't you do anything it takes to make sure you make your existing customers happier? In fact post nerf don't you think this could potentially hurt 2K/HB based on the reaction in this forum? I think a lot more people did not appreciate the patch than those who did, based on the threads. I am not going to get into the red fast bit as tis way over done, but individuals knew they were playing the game not as intended when using it all the time so I disagree with your statement people had no implication they were playing the game wrong, they knew, but it allowed them to compete so you can't blame them a bit for it.I honestly think EA announcing a release is the best thing that could have happened for us, HB/2K now have to dot T's and cross I's, they cannot afford to put out a mediocre product especially if EA introduces a competent course design component. No doubt the EA game is going to sell copies I can already see it...you can play as your favorite pro (but not Tiger..ouch, there is no tempo mechanic to the swing, there will be some narrative story line that you will get through in a week then you are stuck with a mediocre career mode playing the same 15 courses over and over. Don't like career mode, awesome you can play online with your buddies, the same courses 10,000 times. Great you can play Augusta and the "real" majors, and the scoreboard will probably be correct, but without a designer the game has absolutely no chance IMO. People will play for a month or so and get bored because there is no doubt this game will not live up to expectations from a game play perspective. I assume they will have cross platform play which would be an advantage until 2Ks next iteration (if they don't add it this version on the fly a la the red fast nerf) and I would be shocked if that is not EAs key focus as they release details. Also if you look at history EA doesn't have the best track record when it has competition: NBA Live Vs NBA2k March Madness Vs College Hoops 2K (I really hope with NCAA football coming back 2K brings back the college basketball series) Rory Vs TGC (couldn't even out perform then little HB) And really all the things they have exclusively like madden and NHL are stale, its literally the same game every year just the screens look prettier and the narrative mode changes slightly. Their college football reboot is no doubt going to be a homerun so they are going to try and sneak this in while they gain momentum towards that release. Some people may prefer to play EAs version for a variety of different reasons and that is fine. I will probably buy the game out of curiosity because well its a golf game, but for us as a community to move over to EAs iteration from a competition standpoint, I just can not see EA ever getting to that level. Ok back to promo/demo talk, been a lovely discussion sir, and feel free to Pm if you want to keep it going, enjoyed the conversation. That bold and underlined part is incorrect. The devs came out on the HB forums and flat out said the game was playing as they intended it to, with the "red fasts" in it. I don't have the exact link to it on the HB Studios forums, but it is there, somewhere, plain as day that the way red fasts were before the update were, according to those who made the game, working as expected.
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Post by bmoregolfpro on May 5, 2021 10:30:46 GMT -5
I believe you make a fair point in the timing of this sudden change of heart, but can you blame them? If a new competitor emerges wouldn't you do anything it takes to make sure you make your existing customers happier? In fact post nerf don't you think this could potentially hurt 2K/HB based on the reaction in this forum? I think a lot more people did not appreciate the patch than those who did, based on the threads. I am not going to get into the red fast bit as tis way over done, but individuals knew they were playing the game not as intended when using it all the time so I disagree with your statement people had no implication they were playing the game wrong, they knew, but it allowed them to compete so you can't blame them a bit for it.I honestly think EA announcing a release is the best thing that could have happened for us, HB/2K now have to dot T's and cross I's, they cannot afford to put out a mediocre product especially if EA introduces a competent course design component. No doubt the EA game is going to sell copies I can already see it...you can play as your favorite pro (but not Tiger..ouch, there is no tempo mechanic to the swing, there will be some narrative story line that you will get through in a week then you are stuck with a mediocre career mode playing the same 15 courses over and over. Don't like career mode, awesome you can play online with your buddies, the same courses 10,000 times. Great you can play Augusta and the "real" majors, and the scoreboard will probably be correct, but without a designer the game has absolutely no chance IMO. People will play for a month or so and get bored because there is no doubt this game will not live up to expectations from a game play perspective. I assume they will have cross platform play which would be an advantage until 2Ks next iteration (if they don't add it this version on the fly a la the red fast nerf) and I would be shocked if that is not EAs key focus as they release details. Also if you look at history EA doesn't have the best track record when it has competition: NBA Live Vs NBA2k March Madness Vs College Hoops 2K (I really hope with NCAA football coming back 2K brings back the college basketball series) Rory Vs TGC (couldn't even out perform then little HB) And really all the things they have exclusively like madden and NHL are stale, its literally the same game every year just the screens look prettier and the narrative mode changes slightly. Their college football reboot is no doubt going to be a homerun so they are going to try and sneak this in while they gain momentum towards that release. Some people may prefer to play EAs version for a variety of different reasons and that is fine. I will probably buy the game out of curiosity because well its a golf game, but for us as a community to move over to EAs iteration from a competition standpoint, I just can not see EA ever getting to that level. Ok back to promo/demo talk, been a lovely discussion sir, and feel free to Pm if you want to keep it going, enjoyed the conversation. That bold and underlined part is incorrect. The devs came out on the HB forums and flat out said the game was playing as they intended it to, with the "red fasts" in it. I don't have the exact link to it on the HB Studios forums, but it is there, somewhere, plain as day that the way red fasts were before the update were, according to those who made the game, working as expected. That would be an interesting thread I'll dig around for it. I don't look at the HB forums. I think we maybe coming at this from separate angles. I feel there is a difference between the red fast mechanic performing the way it is intended and the way the game is intended to be played. The game was not intended to be played be by utilizing red fasts only. I am not saying people are wrong in using the "correctly" working mechanic, but that is not how the game was intended to be played, it was intended for you to try and hit the perfect window. It was the easiest way to play the game for sure and in competition you want the easiest way to make the best score. I'm sure the developers didn't sit down in their meeting and say ok the way to play this game is by only hitting red fasts. They put in the code saw the results and were happy like they did with the perfect and slow mechanics (again just making a logical assumption). I think using the word wrong was not correct in my statement above. People knew they were not playing the game the way it was intended to be played, but hearing HB say the red fast mechanic was working as intended gave them justification for continuing to use it, but it still is not the way the game was intended to be played. I used the red fast in the beginning until I got comfortable but switched back to perfects and my scores dramatically improved its easier to calculate wind spin aim when hitting perfects. I am not saying if I was using the red fast when the patch dropped pretty much unannounced I wouldn't be upset, I probably would, but people playing the red fast and truly believe they are playing the game the way it was intended to be played is a stretch.
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Post by gatorman on May 5, 2021 10:53:15 GMT -5
Dang, that double whammy demotion bug will have me drop from CC-I to CC-J next week. Probably for the best, I was just hanging around CC-I, maybe I can finally get a promotion mark in CC-J
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Post by sroel908 on May 5, 2021 11:01:01 GMT -5
This is a link to an HB forum post where a dev says, "I repeat - NOTHING about the surfaces nor swing difficulty nor shot dispersion has been changed. The gameplay tunings are identical to the day we launched. And FWIW there is no plan to change anything in this regard beyond bug fixes at this time." www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php/topic,30167.msg365113.html#msg365113 I mean, there's obviously the "at this time" part, but this post is back from September, and not a word was said about swing updates or changes since then up until the red fast nerf.
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Post by seamount4life on May 5, 2021 12:59:39 GMT -5
Also, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that the tempo change had nothing to do with TGC Tours... I don't think anyone outside of those who played TGC even knew what "playing the fast" was. The only place to find info on the patch was on TGC Forums from Doyle... all HB/2K said was there was a big patch lol... The details all came from TGC. Indirectly, sure. It came from our constant feedback and complaints about the red fast going all the way back to September / October. Obviously most of that feedback is from players who play on TGCTours, hence why the specific details were posted here by Doyley and more general details through their other channels as most players wouldn't be effected. The change should be seen as for the players who primarily play TGCTours and not for the people who run the site.
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Post by sroel908 on May 5, 2021 13:28:55 GMT -5
Also, I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe that the tempo change had nothing to do with TGC Tours... I don't think anyone outside of those who played TGC even knew what "playing the fast" was. The only place to find info on the patch was on TGC Forums from Doyle... all HB/2K said was there was a big patch lol... The details all came from TGC. Indirectly, sure. It came from our constant feedback and complaints about the red fast going all the way back to September / October. Obviously most of that feedback is from players who play on TGCTours, hence why the specific details were posted here by Doyley and more general details through their other channels as most players wouldn't be effected. The change should be seen as for the players who primarily play TGCTours and not for the people who run the site. On the contrary...aren't ALL players are affected by this? Anyone can hit a red fast, and I am sure it wasn't just TGCT players using it or experiencing them while playing, even if you weren't intentionally trying to do so (I mean, I have played for perfects since release, and still hit red fasts from time to time). And "more general details" is putting it kindly, when it comes to offering any info about what they update did via their official Twitter account (which is where 2K Support tells you that proper updates will be given, BTW). I mean, this was it: "We have been listening to community feedback and have decided to implement some adjustments to club swinging to improve gameplay and authenticity.
Thank you!"Good luck figuring that out if you don't read the TGCT forums... This is what I mean when I said that 2K/HB has not been helping their communities at all. They release patches with no notes on what is fixed. They do a vague server-side update that completely overhauls the results of swing tempo EIGHT MONTHS AFTER RELEASE and apparently did so only to please a very small number of their user base (TGCT). Meanwhile, they leave the rest of the consumers to ponder what the heck they're even talking about when it comes to a "swing change". They haven't fixed other major problems that have been around since release (career mode leaderboard problems being my biggest pet peeve), and it took 8 months before they considered doing anything for red fasts, after saying red fasts and the rest of the swing mechanic was working as intended. Their communication has been inconsistent at best, and contradictory at worst. And when a core game mechanic is changed at this late stage in the game, it just comes off as a odd move that only seemed to happen because a small, vocal group who plays the game had complained for months, and now a competitor was on the horizon. Better late than never, I guess... Anyway, sorry for anyone who's reading this hoping for a comment on the promotion/demotion issue...haha
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Post by seamount4life on May 5, 2021 13:56:52 GMT -5
Indirectly, sure. It came from our constant feedback and complaints about the red fast going all the way back to September / October. Obviously most of that feedback is from players who play on TGCTours, hence why the specific details were posted here by Doyley and more general details through their other channels as most players wouldn't be effected. The change should be seen as for the players who primarily play TGCTours and not for the people who run the site. On the contrary...aren't ALL players are effected by this? Anyone can hit a red fast, and I am sure it wasn't just TGCT players using it. And "more general details" is putting it kindly, when it comes to offering any info about what they update did via their official Twitter account (which is where 2K Support tells you that proper updates will be given, BTW). I mean, this was it: "We have been listening to community feedback and have decided to implement some adjustments to club swinging to improve gameplay and authenticity.
Thank you!"Good luck figuring that out if you don't read the TGCT forums... This is what I mean when I said that 2K/HB has not been helping their communities at all. They release patches with no notes on what is fixed. They do a vague server-side update that completely overhauls the results of swing tempo EIGHT MONTHS AFTER RELEASE and apparently did so only to please a very small number of their user base (TGCT). Meanwhile, they leave the rest of the consumers to ponder what the heck they're even talking about when it comes to a "swing change". They haven't fixed other major problems that have been around since release (career mode leaderboard problems being my biggest pet peeve), and it took 8 months before they considered doing anything for red fasts, after saying red fasts and the rest of the swing mechanic was working as intended. Their communication has been inconsistent at best, and contradictory at worst. And when a core game mechanic is changed at this late stage in the game, it just comes off as a odd move that only seemed to happen because a small, vocal group who plays the game had complained for months, and now a competitor was on the horizon. Better late than never, I guess... Yes, the swing changes would affect all players. but I would assume that 80-90% of the player base doesn't know the "Red Fast" is an exploit and/or simply doesn't care. It's clear these changes were directed at the player base that frequents these tours and this site, and I am not sure why that is such an issue for you. If you are going to argue how poor HB is at communicating then I agree, they have always been very poor at communicating ever since they teamed up with Maximum games for TGC2 and went into full muzzle mode. It's something that many of us have expressed and all we can hope for is that it improves under 2K. Maybe now that they are officially a 2K studio things will tighten up and we will see more consistency in updates, improvements, and communication. Which, as the last few months has shown, seems to be going in a better direction. Personally I am just pleasantly surprised we got a patch to fix an obvious gameplay issue this deep into the life cycle of the product. I assumed that we would have to wait for a new entry into the series before it would be addressed. I would rather spend my energy enjoying the change instead of b%&ing about why it took so long or why they changed it now. Who cares? it got changed and the game is much better for it.
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Post by sroel908 on May 5, 2021 14:09:03 GMT -5
On the contrary...aren't ALL players are effected by this? Anyone can hit a red fast, and I am sure it wasn't just TGCT players using it. And "more general details" is putting it kindly, when it comes to offering any info about what they update did via their official Twitter account (which is where 2K Support tells you that proper updates will be given, BTW). I mean, this was it: "We have been listening to community feedback and have decided to implement some adjustments to club swinging to improve gameplay and authenticity.
Thank you!"Good luck figuring that out if you don't read the TGCT forums... This is what I mean when I said that 2K/HB has not been helping their communities at all. They release patches with no notes on what is fixed. They do a vague server-side update that completely overhauls the results of swing tempo EIGHT MONTHS AFTER RELEASE and apparently did so only to please a very small number of their user base (TGCT). Meanwhile, they leave the rest of the consumers to ponder what the heck they're even talking about when it comes to a "swing change". They haven't fixed other major problems that have been around since release (career mode leaderboard problems being my biggest pet peeve), and it took 8 months before they considered doing anything for red fasts, after saying red fasts and the rest of the swing mechanic was working as intended. Their communication has been inconsistent at best, and contradictory at worst. And when a core game mechanic is changed at this late stage in the game, it just comes off as a odd move that only seemed to happen because a small, vocal group who plays the game had complained for months, and now a competitor was on the horizon. Better late than never, I guess... Yes, the swing changes would affect all players. but I would assume that 80-90% of the player base doesn't know the "Red Fast" is an exploit and/or simply doesn't care. It's clear these changes were directed at the player base that frequents these tours and this site, and I am not sure why that is such an issue for you. If you are going to argue how poor HB is at communicating then I agree, they have always been very poor at communicating ever since they teamed up with Maximum games for TGC2 and went into full muzzle mode. It's something that many of us have expressed and all we can hope for is that it improves under 2K. Maybe now that they are officially a 2K studio things will tighten up and we will see more consistency in updates, improvements, and communication. Which, as the last few months has shown, seems to be going in a better direction. Personally I am just pleasantly surprised we got a patch to fix an obvious gameplay issue this deep into the life cycle of the product. I assumed that we would have to wait for a new entry into the series before it would be addressed. I would rather spend my energy enjoying the change instead of b%&ing about why it took so long or why they changed it now. Who cares? it got changed and the game is much better for it. The main problem for me is that they changed it AFTER saying it was working as intended (and, again, I am a "play for perfect from the start" player so actually liked the change - although it unfairly punishes pitch shots, but that's for another thread). That's the biggest issue to me, and why its odd they had a change of heart eight months into release. Saying the game was working as it should, then changing it for reasons unknown so far down the line, appears as pandering to me I guess. Their communication is awful, and that's issue 1B with this. And issue 1C is that they haven't fixed other issues that affect a lot more of the game's fan base. Again, I always come back to the glitched, bugged, and worthless career mode leaderboards. More people play career mode than TGCT...no doubt. Just look at the plays that the "official" courses have. Yet, there has been zero info shared about anyone looking into fixing the career mode scoring or anything like that. Instead, we are left with event winners randomly changing, scores not matching, and other fun issues that ruin the mode's immersion. So, when I see that TGCT gets a specific update for it's users after months of complaining, yet other issues remain with no indication of even if they are able to fix the problems, it's a little frustrating and seems fishy as to why it finally occurred now, after months and months of complaints and an HB dev saying no changes to tempo were planned. I have been a part of TGCT for years. I love the community and discussing various topics here. I recently became a ranger, as I wanted to experience even more of the awesome courses that folks come up with here, and I also wanted to be more active in the community. That will not change and is unaffected by the recent swing update. But I feel the change for red fasts should have happened sooner and been more complete if they truly were doing this to help the TGCT community. HB never should have said that the swing was working as intended and that no changes were coming. All this does is make me less likely to consider an HB golf game in the future, since I feel communication has gotten worse since TGC2, and their way of updating and fixing things in the game leave much to be desired. And I suppose that's why I feel annoyed about how this update had gone down...
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Post by seamount4life on May 5, 2021 14:32:11 GMT -5
Yes, the swing changes would affect all players. but I would assume that 80-90% of the player base doesn't know the "Red Fast" is an exploit and/or simply doesn't care. It's clear these changes were directed at the player base that frequents these tours and this site, and I am not sure why that is such an issue for you. If you are going to argue how poor HB is at communicating then I agree, they have always been very poor at communicating ever since they teamed up with Maximum games for TGC2 and went into full muzzle mode. It's something that many of us have expressed and all we can hope for is that it improves under 2K. Maybe now that they are officially a 2K studio things will tighten up and we will see more consistency in updates, improvements, and communication. Which, as the last few months has shown, seems to be going in a better direction. Personally I am just pleasantly surprised we got a patch to fix an obvious gameplay issue this deep into the life cycle of the product. I assumed that we would have to wait for a new entry into the series before it would be addressed. I would rather spend my energy enjoying the change instead of b%&ing about why it took so long or why they changed it now. Who cares? it got changed and the game is much better for it. The main problem for me is that they changed it AFTER saying it was working as intended (and, again, I am a "play for perfect from the start" player so actually liked the change - although it unfairly punishes pitch shots, but that's for another thread). That's the biggest issue to me, and why its odd they had a change of heart eight months into release. Their communication is awful, and that's issue 1B with this. And issue 1C is that they haven't fixed other issues that affect a lot more of the game's fan base. Again, I always come back to the glitched, bugged, and worthless career mode leaderboards. More people play career mode than TGCT...no doubt. Just look at the plays that the "official" courses have. Yet, there has been zero info shared about anyone looking into fixing the career mode scoring or anything like that. Instead, we are left with event winners randomly changing, scores not matching, and other fun issues that ruin the mode's immersion. So, when I see that TGCT gets a specific update for it's users after months of complaining, yet other issues remain with no indication of even if they are able to fix the problems, it's a little frustrating and seems fishy as to why it finally occurred now, after months and months of complaints and an HB dev saying no changes to tempo were planned. I have been a part of TGCT for years. I love the community and discussing various topics here. The change for red fasts should have happened sooner and been more complete. HB never should have said that the swing was working as intended and that no changes were coming. All this does is make me less likely to consider an HB golf game in the future, since I feel communication has gotten worse since TGC2, and their way of updating and fixing things in the game leave much to be desired. We will likely never know the answer as to why it took 8 months to address. Maybe it is a combination of EA joining the mix, the signing of Tiger, officially becoming part of the 2k family, etc. I'd imagine all of that has some sort of impact. Also there could be a possibility that they changed their mind on the red fast after seeing more and more video evidence of how it was being used in ways they didn't intend on. I do think HB is allowed to change their mind on this matter, and moreso think it shows great growth for them as they have been historically very stubborn in these cases. Also, maybe they are in the middle of development on the new game and they are currently working on the new swing. They see this as an easy opportunity to get some testing in a real life environment. It also is an easy change on their end as they can just simply adjust it on their servers. No patches to push, no having to get clearance from Steam, Playstation, Xbox, etc. I just don't think there is this sinister plot going on or anything fishy behind the scenes. Could just be a case of low hanging fruit that they can easily address at a time when it is more convenient for the dev team and it was top of mind as they are mid dev cycle for the new game. the Career mode / leaderboard stuff likely takes more work to fix and/or it makes more sense to address it in the next game because it requires a patch. Again, this is just my speculation and it is not based on anything I know to be true. Just adding a different perspective on this conversation.
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Post by sroel908 on May 5, 2021 15:26:23 GMT -5
The main problem for me is that they changed it AFTER saying it was working as intended (and, again, I am a "play for perfect from the start" player so actually liked the change - although it unfairly punishes pitch shots, but that's for another thread). That's the biggest issue to me, and why its odd they had a change of heart eight months into release. Their communication is awful, and that's issue 1B with this. And issue 1C is that they haven't fixed other issues that affect a lot more of the game's fan base. Again, I always come back to the glitched, bugged, and worthless career mode leaderboards. More people play career mode than TGCT...no doubt. Just look at the plays that the "official" courses have. Yet, there has been zero info shared about anyone looking into fixing the career mode scoring or anything like that. Instead, we are left with event winners randomly changing, scores not matching, and other fun issues that ruin the mode's immersion. So, when I see that TGCT gets a specific update for it's users after months of complaining, yet other issues remain with no indication of even if they are able to fix the problems, it's a little frustrating and seems fishy as to why it finally occurred now, after months and months of complaints and an HB dev saying no changes to tempo were planned. I have been a part of TGCT for years. I love the community and discussing various topics here. The change for red fasts should have happened sooner and been more complete. HB never should have said that the swing was working as intended and that no changes were coming. All this does is make me less likely to consider an HB golf game in the future, since I feel communication has gotten worse since TGC2, and their way of updating and fixing things in the game leave much to be desired. We will likely never know the answer as to why it took 8 months to address. Maybe it is a combination of EA joining the mix, the signing of Tiger, officially becoming part of the 2k family, etc. I'd imagine all of that has some sort of impact. Also there could be a possibility that they changed their mind on the red fast after seeing more and more video evidence of how it was being used in ways they didn't intend on. I do think HB is allowed to change their mind on this matter, and moreso think it shows great growth for them as they have been historically very stubborn in these cases. Also, maybe they are in the middle of development on the new game and they are currently working on the new swing. They see this as an easy opportunity to get some testing in a real life environment. It also is an easy change on their end as they can just simply adjust it on their servers. No patches to push, no having to get clearance from Steam, Playstation, Xbox, etc. I just don't think there is this sinister plot going on or anything fishy behind the scenes. Could just be a case of low hanging fruit that they can easily address at a time when it is more convenient for the dev team and it was top of mind as they are mid dev cycle for the new game. the Career mode / leaderboard stuff likely takes more work to fix and/or it makes more sense to address it in the next game because it requires a patch. Again, this is just my speculation and it is not based on anything I know to be true. Just adding a different perspective on this conversation. I totally appreciate your perspective, so thank you for that. The career mode issues are, to me, something that should be fixed in this game. If they need a patch, so be it! The issues are mode-breaking and ruin it entirely. Leaderboards are crucial to getting a realistic experience out of a PGA TOUR mode, and right now, they change and randomize for no apparent reason. Imagine this happening in a game that was supposed to be a realistic interpretation of MLB or the NBA. It's a busted mode that should have been fixed ASAP, if this is supposed to be a licensed simulation of the PGA TOUR. If thought is to just wait and fix it in the next game, that's pretty weak in my eyes. I might not even consider the next game knowing that they couldn't even do a career mode correctly in this game, and are just simply left to wait and see that the problems are hopefully addressed in in the next one. That's just lazy, again in my opinion. If the work to literally and quite simply get math correct, and to have static leaderboards that will not change in career mode, takes so much effort perhaps they'd be better off leaving a PGA TOUR career mode out of PGA 2K22 or 23.
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Post by seamount4life on May 5, 2021 15:57:16 GMT -5
We will likely never know the answer as to why it took 8 months to address. Maybe it is a combination of EA joining the mix, the signing of Tiger, officially becoming part of the 2k family, etc. I'd imagine all of that has some sort of impact. Also there could be a possibility that they changed their mind on the red fast after seeing more and more video evidence of how it was being used in ways they didn't intend on. I do think HB is allowed to change their mind on this matter, and moreso think it shows great growth for them as they have been historically very stubborn in these cases. Also, maybe they are in the middle of development on the new game and they are currently working on the new swing. They see this as an easy opportunity to get some testing in a real life environment. It also is an easy change on their end as they can just simply adjust it on their servers. No patches to push, no having to get clearance from Steam, Playstation, Xbox, etc. I just don't think there is this sinister plot going on or anything fishy behind the scenes. Could just be a case of low hanging fruit that they can easily address at a time when it is more convenient for the dev team and it was top of mind as they are mid dev cycle for the new game. the Career mode / leaderboard stuff likely takes more work to fix and/or it makes more sense to address it in the next game because it requires a patch. Again, this is just my speculation and it is not based on anything I know to be true. Just adding a different perspective on this conversation. I totally appreciate your perspective, so thank you for that. The career mode issues are, to me, something that should be fixed in this game. If they need a patch, so be it! The issues are mode-breaking and ruin it entirely. Leaderboards are crucial to getting a realistic experience out of a PGA TOUR mode, and right now, they change and randomize for no apparent reason. Imagine this happening in a game that was supposed to be a realistic interpretation of MLB or the NBA. It's a busted mode that should have been fixed ASAP, if this is supposed to be a licensed simulation of the PGA TOUR. If thought is to just wait and fix it in the next game, that's pretty weak in my eyes. I might not even consider the next game knowing that they couldn't even do a career mode correctly in this game, and are just simply left to wait and see that the problems are hopefully addressed in in the next one. That's just lazy, again in my opinion. If the work to literally and quite simply get math correct, and to have static leaderboards that will not change in career mode, takes so much effort perhaps they'd be better off leaving a PGA TOUR career mode out of PGA 2K22 or 23. I definitely don't disagree with your perspective in regards to How a Licensed PGA game doesn't have working leaderboards in Career Mode. For the longest time I complained about there not being a proper bunker shot (Which finally got addressed in 2k21 with the splash shot) and the ball drop logic is still embarrassing. The Ball drop logic feels more like an engine issue, or one that is deeply rooted in code that they simply can't untether (Or else I think it would've been addressed already). So hopefully they change engines soon and are able to address it. I think, and I hope that with HB under 2k's roof they will be better at addressing these sorts of issues. But if they don't and if these are important aspects to you, ones that drive purchasing decisions, then I wouldn't blame you for buying EAs game if they deliver better in this area and it fits your needs more. Finally, back to the patch conversation like before I don't disagree that patching the career mode should be a priority, but I think in regards to doing the Red Fast vs doing the Career Leaderboard patch it may just boil down to time and priority (To a certain extent). One they can fix quickly, with much less effort on their own servers, the other likely takes more time and they have to get the platform holders involved in the process. And when those elements get added it likely turns into a "We only have time to fix the leaderboard once, so do we fix it in the current game, or do we add that fix to the next game." and I think you and I both would agree that IF that is the internal conversation then fixing it for the next game should be the priority and likely always will be especially for sports games. (Which is why the red fast fix is so surprising.)
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Post by zooby97 on May 5, 2021 17:44:20 GMT -5
Since the update what has happened to Your average scores?
I’m in CC and I was shooting 61-70 on any given week. Putting was my main issue for a higher score.
Now? I’m about 66-76 and the higher score is mainly a result from tempo with mainly a slow red that goes right and in the rough. With the tougher shot in the rough I’m usually scrambling as my 3rd shot will sometimes be outside of the green.
I do not get a lot of red fasts as I obviously try for perfects and slows will be numerous. The grey slows are obviously ok. I’m good with the change and have been working hard to improve with the perfect.
I just hope they never do randomness to tempo.
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Post by sroel908 on May 5, 2021 17:49:02 GMT -5
Since the update what has happened to Your average scores? I’m in CC and I was shooting 61-70 on any given week. Putting was my main issue for a higher score. Now? I’m about 66-76 and the higher score is mainly a result from tempo with mainly a slow red that goes right and in the rough. With the tougher shot in the rough I’m usually scrambling as my 3rd shot will sometimes be outside of the green. I do not get a lot of red fasts as I obviously try for perfects and slows will be numerous. The grey slows are obviously ok. I’m good with the change and have been working hard to improve with the perfect. I just hope they never do randomness to tempo. Gone up, for sure. It's all due to pitch shots for me. Usually end up hitting them red fast and losing a ton of distance. This was especially the case as I started to play more on Master swing difficulty, as I decided to try for a tour card. I knew my scores would be higher (I typically play on Pro difficulty), but they really ballooned due to the punishing misses when trying to hit pitch shots.
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Post by bmoregolfpro on May 5, 2021 17:56:46 GMT -5
I think the fact that they broke trend and listened to any aspect of their community is a positive even if the communication wasn’t where it should be. I’m sure we each have our own wants list and have things prioritized differently but any feedback they take and make a change like this on the fly is a good thing.
Now...if they could do us a solid and fix these damn promo and demo marks for us that would be great 😂
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Post by gatorman on May 5, 2021 18:14:30 GMT -5
Since the update what has happened to Your average scores? I’m in CC and I was shooting 61-70 on any given week. Putting was my main issue for a higher score. Now? I’m about 66-76 and the higher score is mainly a result from tempo with mainly a slow red that goes right and in the rough. With the tougher shot in the rough I’m usually scrambling as my 3rd shot will sometimes be outside of the green. I do not get a lot of red fasts as I obviously try for perfects and slows will be numerous. The grey slows are obviously ok. I’m good with the change and have been working hard to improve with the perfect. I just hope they never do randomness to tempo. I'm also a CC player (CC-I soon demoted to CC-J). I shot 68 to 75 before, now more like 73 to 80. I never played red fast, but did compensate for it because many shots went to the fast side. With the big fast penalty, I find myself getting more slows to avoid the fast. My pitch shots have been decimated by the change, always coming up short from both sides slow or fast.
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