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Post by bruce on Dec 17, 2019 10:09:02 GMT -5
I know some here have visions of courses in there heads all the time (not a sugar plum to be found). But there are many of us not so wise who actually need something to start from. I was just wondering If you think it is possible to take a "manufactured" course and make it good enough to be worth playing.What are the distinguishing things that make it worth playing and what would have to be fixed? I tried making one from scratch in the original TGC, and I just couldn't get anywhere with it. To me it would seem flat traps, not finished land flattening or smooth transitions would all be turnoffs. Yet some older simpler courses without a lot of eye candy, and just by there very great design are quite appealing. I know asking what makes a course good is like asking for the moon, but I'm going to throw it out there anyways.
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Post by staypuft39 on Dec 17, 2019 10:35:28 GMT -5
Do you mean "manufactured" like you just plop down the hole markers....and the fairways, bunkers etc are placed automatically? If so...no, no it is not possible to make that course good. There is no strategy unless you create it, and add to that, it's ugly as heck. I just can't see anyone loading up an auto-gen course and wanting to play it over any of the unique courses out there/RCR's of good courses.
If you're struggling for inspiration, why not try copying famous holes? You still don't have to do any creative work, you learn the tools to create a course properly, and in the end, you know it's a good hole.
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Post by DrnkNdKnwThngs on Dec 17, 2019 12:04:12 GMT -5
When I was still on PS4 and just starting with the designer (not like I've been designing or been on PC very long at all...) I tried to go the "put lipstick on the auto-gen pig" route through a few iterations, but it was mostly just to get a feel for the tools and see whether or not I would even want to get into designing in the game. I can tell you that I definitely see where you are coming from with not knowing where to start, but I would discourage you from going the auto-gen route and trying to "repair" the mess that the game gives you through that process... staypuft39 has a great idea with searching through Google (or even many of the courses in this game) for inspiration. Try your best to recreate your own versions of those courses to learn and get used to the tools. Also, be sure to check out the YouTube videos that numerous designers on here have posted...most notably Crazycanuck1985 ... his Course Design 101 & 201 series are what gave me enormous insight into how the designer works. Then peruse through other course designer YouTube videos, and find them on Twitch as well, where you can watch many of them live in the designer, and in game as well. The TGCTours.com community is fantastic, but the designer community in here has become like a 2nd home for me...either way...have fun with everything, and don't take it too seriously, then you'll find your style and begin to make fantastic courses. ~Drnk
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Post by bruce on Dec 17, 2019 12:42:40 GMT -5
I hate to say it but I did go the repair the mess route, and I am still learning the tools as well. I did view most of the crazycanuck videos and they were very helpful. Also understand he may do more, hope he does because some of us can use all the help we can get. I did take a generated course, but it doesn't bare any resemblance to the original.At the same time though, its going to incorporate something similar to a floating fairway on one hole, would be cool If it could actually move , but I'm not sure how to do that. I'm also using other things to make a simple course deceptive, as I've seen on other courses I've played. What are the worse things about courses you absolutely despise ?
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Post by lessthanbread on Dec 17, 2019 13:48:35 GMT -5
The auto generated courses are very limited for what you can do with them. You can plant them up all you want but it would be like putting a bow on a turd. It's still not going to look right because good courses fit into and move with the surrounding landscape. The best courses obviously play well (challenging, fair, strategic, and fun) but also look like they belong in the plot they're designed on.
The biggest mistakes I see in course design that really break a course are over-sculpting: Making a crazy landscape that looks out of a Dr. Seuss book and odd fairway designs: Something like putting a gap in a fairway that's nothing but open land. If a fairway is going to curve or stop or do anything, it should have a reason to do so. A river or trees or cliffs or something.
In my opinion, the best courses totally immerse you into the environment, everything is done with a purpose, and it just looks like the course could actually exist. In design, you have to be very critical of your work, look at every hole and really ask yourself "Does that REALLY look right? Is that the absolute best I can do to make this environment look real?"
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Post by Violinguy69 on Dec 17, 2019 15:14:16 GMT -5
I recommend google-ing some images of beautiful golf holes and trying to copy one of those. By the time you're done with one hole, you'll want to make 17 more.
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Post by lessthanbread on Dec 17, 2019 15:19:49 GMT -5
I recommend google-ing some images of beautiful golf holes and trying to copy one of those. By the time you're done with one hole, you'll want to make 17 more. This is a great way to find inspiration. Also just looking in natural for good sight lines. Like if you're walking your dog or something and come over a hill or around a corner and think "Wow a golf hole would look really cool here" If you pay attention you can find inspiration for course design anywhere.
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