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Post by sandsaver01 on Oct 16, 2019 15:58:24 GMT -5
Do not know if this is the right forum for this question - move if not. I am wondering if the community is interested in Lidar versions of some famous courses that already have non-lidar versions in the game. I was thinking specifically of Torrey Pines or Spyglass Hill but I am sure there are more. These already have versions which look good and have been played many times. Is it worth anyones time to put out a Lidar version?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 16:32:09 GMT -5
A quick answer: yes, if there are good lidar data. Lidar data will make the elevations and slopes more accurate - combined with accurate planting etc will make for a more realistic course.
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scoll3
Amateur Golfer
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Post by scoll3 on Oct 16, 2019 21:00:34 GMT -5
I would say that Torrey Pines definitely needs a remake, but the Spyglass we have currently is actually pretty good and doesn't need to be remade any time soon.
I really think it would be awesome to make Lidar versions of these courses, but I think are many other courses, including a few on the PGA Tour, that don't even have an RCR in tgc and should be made before these other ones are recreated. So yes, these courses should be remade, but I would defer to making other "not-made-yet" courses before remaking those.
In terms of these PGA Tour courses not yet made, I think the most important missing ones not being worked on are Riviera CC (A lidar version was made recently but the planting and mapping were not done too well), Trinity Forest (which I'm currently mapping in OSM), Muirfield Village (it's being renovated next year so it may not be worth it currently), Sedgefield CC, TPC River Highlands, and the Old White TPC.
Yes, not everyone is going to want to work on all these courses, but I would love eventually for almost every course on the PGA Tour to have a course made in TGC. I'm willing to map all of these courses in OSM and then give it up to the community for anyone to make them, since I don't have tgc on pc and can't do LiDAR courses. So hopefully that will make the process just a little easier.
But basically yes I'd love for those courses to be remade with LiDAR, however I'd rather have people spend time on making new ones. Nonetheless if someone is really passionate about doing a LiDAR version for these courses and also really wants to spend time on it, go for it! I'd still be super excited and appreciative no doubt!
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 3:27:44 GMT -5
A quick answer: yes, if there are good lidar data. Lidar data will make the elevations and slopes more accurate - combined with accurate planting etc will make for a more realistic course. I think if you have played Hazeltine national LIDAR and non lidar that point is not always right.Just my opinion its only the same as using the google earth data points and if you take months on it you get the same results,also helps when you use the official players guide from the Ryder cup as well and researching the course well for changes. Intresting on the 16th the water slopes from the 11th tee right down to payne stewarts bridge (don't think its there on LIDAR course) it can't be done correct how the water is generated on TGC 2019.Of course some LIDAR designers do take there time and they are better versions but far too many just naming a course and moving on.PS a LIDAR version of SPYGLASS would be so much better but since they changed the delta theme don't think it will ever look right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 3:47:35 GMT -5
A quick answer: yes, if there are good lidar data. Lidar data will make the elevations and slopes more accurate - combined with accurate planting etc will make for a more realistic course. I think if you have played Hazeltine national LIDAR and non lidar that point is not always right.Just my opinion its only the same as using the google earth data points and if you take months on it you get the same results,also helps when you use the official guide from the Ryder cup as well. I had a quick look at Hazeltine national Lidar version - and this is a course that looks to has just been mapped out, imported in Chad's tool and published. A good recreation requires alot more than this. Another example of a better non-lidar version is the Congressional country club: the lidar version has too few trees and is too open compared to real life, and detailed planting in general is lacking. Though there are two issues on the non Lidar version which is not big (transitions). But no; google earth data points is nowhere close to the accuracy of good lidar data (the best data is close to an inch in accuracy). I have imported Augusta National lidar data into the game (the course is perfectly mapped out in OSM) and compared it to the fantastic version by CLV. I thought I had read he was in the process of making a lidar version of this course - and there is a reason why you would do that even if the non lidar version is so good.
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 3:58:17 GMT -5
Regarding Augusta National Royce's version (2019 with new 5th)(took him a year to design) is a lot more accurate in my view elevation wise only because CLV's first version was made in TGC1 and you had to use the water table which was given you and altering that in TGC2 would have been so much work.Which one is more playable is up to personal choice its just a shame in my view instead of designers using the great tool and doing one course a month using it and producing 3 or 4.just like the problem with autogenerated courses.Just a point on the data you may be right but you got to also remember HB's ball/firmness physics is not good i would say most real life greens on professional courses would be unplayable if you had the correct data how the game plays.To me its like the Sweentens cove course the same designers done both i perfer the original version but in the end its what's TGC brand been about from the start something for everyone if you search hard enough but my point is because its got LIDAR in title don't always mean its better to play.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 4:13:43 GMT -5
Lidar data is only giving you accurate elevations and slopes (how accurate is depending on the lidar data). Everything else must be done by you to have a good recreation (which also is limited by the designer - most important is how some features will make adjustment to the terrain - like water). Also, vertical drops like walls etc. will not be represented well after import, because the game engine is not handling this well.
As for the greens; I simply do not agree. Augusta has some of the most demanding greens I would think, and they play perfectly fine in the game with the lidar data on 187 greens (I have set the pins for the 2019 Masters). If you are doing a recreation, you should respect how the greens slopes and undulations are in real life.
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 4:18:08 GMT -5
So your telling me you are doing augusta national and you have not altered the greens one bit from the lidar data?,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 4:21:22 GMT -5
So your telling me you are doing augusta national and you have not altered the greens one bit from the lidar data?, No, I am not doing Augusta. I have the impression that CLV is doing a lidar version. I have just run Chad's tool, measured and put down the 2019 pins (don't take long) and played the course. Just out of my own curiosity.
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 4:25:38 GMT -5
Any chance you can publish it then under a random name so i can take a look at the data with the greens unaltered i m assuming its the pre 2019 layout when they changed the 5th and 14th green a little.I played CLV's lidar version just the course just wondered if it would be any different do love a bit of ********* *********.i have always thought the 16th green would be impossible to do correct in tgc 2019 just be nice to see.
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 5:01:13 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 5:14:30 GMT -5
Any chance you can publish it then under a random name so i can take a look at the data with the greens unaltered i m assuming its the pre 2019 layout when they changed the 5th and 14th green a little.I played CLV's lidar version just the course just wondered if it would be any different do love a bit of ********* ********* I don't fancy publishing crap like this, and since there might be someone working on a lidar version.. Anyway, do you have up to date lidar data on Oak Hill?
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 5:20:44 GMT -5
LIDAR would not be any good there changing the layout of the course and all 18 greens,So i went of the designers plans and used a old layout 6 months later came out decent i reckon but in the end LIDAR or not plays well all what matters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 5:43:12 GMT -5
LIDAR would not be any good there changing the layout of the course and all 18 greens,So i went of the designers plans and used a old layout 6 months later came out decent i reckon but in the end LIDAR or not plays well all what matters. I can't find any available lidar data for Oak Hill CC, but it seems they are collecting data this year for this area.
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Post by yeltzman on Oct 17, 2019 7:12:17 GMT -5
Biggest problem i would say doing a LIDAR version of Oak Hill would be doing the water which run's through the whole course LIDAR and how the water is generated in tgc brand not a great match i reckon.Shame won't get to play your augusta.really looking forward to freindbombers pebble beach because the LIDAR version of the 8th which used the plot not the course was outstanding best LIDAR hole i have played.
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