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Post by Irving R. Levine on Aug 28, 2019 20:53:54 GMT -5
Well it happened again, probably close to an exact year from last time, when HB couldn't even tell us when their game was going to be released. After relentlessly mocking them for their silence, I had my "what am I doing?" moment, and deleted my account to keep me from wasting my time over there. They just simply don't deserve interaction of any kind if they are not going to return it, unfortunately, and spending time over there was just going to be too unhealthy for me. It was fun mocking them, but time to go. That's why I don't post over there. The only post I've made since TGC2 was from E3 this year confirming that HB wasn't anywhere to be seen. HB doesn't care about us, so why waste time on them?
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 29, 2019 2:34:30 GMT -5
Royce may have been banned again, as he returned from a ban with immediately the exact same douchey and absuive behaviour as previously. Awesome course designer, not a great human, in my opinion. (for example, absuing a user's autistic daughter.)
In the interests of fairness, as i'm sure people will say "but he can't defend himself," he thinks i'm a "commie snowflake..."
Let's not act like you were innocent in all of that. I certainly wasn't. I know him personally and he's a good dude. Maybe you got trolled a little bro. Anyway HB has gone way beyond my expectations in the customer service department. Epic. I definitely got trolled. When people troll in a serious way, about serious matters, i get sucked in. It's a weakness I have that I'm honest about. I crossed the line literally ONCE with him, in my view in a clearly satirical way, and decided to delete the comment soon after. And I did it to stick up for the guy who's daughter was absued. Mostly I ignored him. I don't accept he's a "good dude." Anyway enough about him...
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Post by mcbogga on Aug 31, 2019 2:05:44 GMT -5
Just got the below post removed over on the HB forum. A little bit petty, I think. But its a sensitive subject I guess. Reposted it to get a screenshot.... Lets see How long its allowed to live this time.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 31, 2019 5:31:33 GMT -5
About this thing of the posts removed, yesterday they deleted the same thread I created here on clubhouse, asking for some help about a issue I found with a google sheet. It was posted on the general forum. When some hour later I checked hoping for some answer, it was simply disappeared. With not a word. I don't know..maybe it could be off topic there, for them..ok..but at least they could move it on a more appropriate page..but why to close it AND don't write a brief PM or a note somewhere just to tell me why or what it was wrong whit it..i really can't understand. All this while they continues to answer and interact normally, but only about stupid things. As if nothing it happens. I have no more words, really.
(ah..just to make some easy and fast comparison..here with the same identical thread i received immediate support from more than a guy and in few hours the issue was SOLVED. And in two possible ways. When you say "find the differences").
Bah..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 8:53:42 GMT -5
HB Keith used to moderate I don't think he does anymore. He was pretty liberal but whoever does it now is all gangster with the delete button.
To be honest sometimes I'm surprised they don't delete some of my posts but with all my negative posts I have made a lot of positive ones.
It's too bad they have something special with the potential to be great but more importantly they have a solid community. I am not sure they know how to get to the next level and certainly suck at PR most of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 11:10:26 GMT -5
HB Keith used to moderate I don't think he does anymore. He was pretty liberal but whoever does it now is all gangster with the delete button. To be honest sometimes I'm surprised they don't delete some of my posts but with all my negative posts I have made a lot of positive ones. It's too bad they have something special with the potential to be great but more importantly they have a solid community. I am not sure they know how to get to the next level and certainly suck at PR most of the time. They are truly useless at PR. Great potential and do nothing with it, other than annoy their own community. Bring back EA and the Tiger series ...!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 11:18:12 GMT -5
I liked the swing better in TGC 2 . You could do more with the swing plane but you have to give them credit with the update to the private match Multiplayer. Works very well once connected. Smooth as butter. Graphics are better and if you like the whole offline PGA career I'm assuming it's decent idk never played it.
We will see soon one way or another. They can't stay quiet forever. Eventually money has to be made or they abandoned it. It's either or.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 31, 2019 11:30:26 GMT -5
Yeah..but the main difference respect some week ago is that while before they were just useless as PR, now they acts like stupid, untalented actors of an awful piece of mediocre theater, acting as if the average user on their forum should be a group of teenagers..a group of stupid, teenagers. Embarrassing silences, stupid questions, and so go on. And..as if this was not already enough, someone in there started also to use their duties as admins, to act just as a bunch of bullies, with an easy trigger always ready to delete comments, posts, everything..often with no reason at all and never the shadow of an explanation.
Is said that when you touch the bottom, then you can only start to go up, at some point. Well..they seems decided to excavate.
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Post by matchless1 on Sept 1, 2019 22:50:06 GMT -5
This has messed with my mind. The fact that the creator had the foresight to not name the course by its name was incredibly wise. The fact they went after him just identifies his level of talent from the highest level. Playing the par three and the tourney in sync with the actual tournament became a tradition for my son and me. I'm sickened by delicate ego people in high places have and the inability HB exhibited to not fight it by simply saying it's in our bylaws for creativity to exist and chat with our lawyers for creating this bylaw thus burying it in the legal system. But maybe they did years ago. I guess we dont deserve to sniff the highest of society's socks.
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 2, 2019 0:44:17 GMT -5
Is it confirmed that ANGC has anything to do with it, or is that still assumptions?
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Sept 2, 2019 1:10:12 GMT -5
Is it confirmed that ANGC has anything to do with it, or is that still assumptions? I think/hope that they should receive some kind of input. It would be crazy if they decided to do this with no reason. But even if they were forced..this don't change the problem with their silence and the medieval obscuring of words (for me atill the most absurd thing..way worst than hiding courses to any research).
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Post by cephyn on Sept 2, 2019 8:40:21 GMT -5
Is it confirmed that ANGC has anything to do with it, or is that still assumptions? It's an assumption but it's by far the most likely scenario. ANGC is known for aggressively defending their trademarks and image.
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Post by Brighttail on Sept 2, 2019 17:11:50 GMT -5
It has been a while since I tackled tort law but here is what I've seen. HB has taken down the names of the courses and made them non-searchable. So names like Augusta, Magnolia, ect. I can still play the course as I have it faved but it is just named ******* now. From a trademark standpoint, it is easier to go after things like usages of logos, flags and of course the names like "The Masters" and Augusta because they are being used in conjunction of a golf game. What is harder to prove harm is when it comes to the course itself. HB didn't create these courses, nor has it promoted their game by stating it has these courses. Also they haven't made these courses "official" courses. So technically no one would know that any of these courses actually exist unless they play the game and go looking for them. HB is thus not making any money directly from having a "Masters" course on its server. The same goes for the creators. They weren't paid to create them nor are they making any money from having created the course. In other words the organization that controls the Masters isn't losing money and no one is gaining money from having these courses on the HB servers. So since no one is making money directly off the course creations, it is difficult to prove any 'harm' and despite the fact that some of these RCRs are very good, they are still artistic representations of the course. Would HB fight a lawsuit? Overall I can see where they wouldn't do it over trademarked names/logos but they might very well fight one on RCRs since that is a big part of their game, the ability for any course creator to make any course they want, from the local city course to the most well known courses in the world. The key here is that it isn't HB that is creating these courses but non-paid, every day folks like you or I. SO i think the courses themselves will be fine unless they have something like "Augusta" or the map with the hole in Georgia that is sculpted somewhere in flowers on the course. The names on the other hand is an easy fix and something they can address in the next iteration of the game but simply not allowing some naming conventions and putting it in their EULA.
As for HB, back in 2015 I think they were a lot more accommodating with their users and more amiable in talking with us and including us in decisions and at least in communication. HB is now trying to play with the big boys. Partnering with larger corporations who all have their own rules, in an industry that has to worry more about lawsuits. Simply put, HB is growing, more people are taking notice of them and they have a whole new rule book to play with and sadly this includes quick delete buttons on forum posts that might upset some corporate entity. My guess is they are still trying to expand and gain more partners and to do so they gotta keep their forums pretty sanitized.
That being said, I did play the course we played this year in April and it is still up and functioning. HB may still in the end decide it isn't worth dealing with it in this iteration of the game. It is far easier to simply delete the courses from the servers and put a new restriction in the next EULA as well as some other safe guards than it is to have to pour over 100,000 courses to see which ones might cause an issue. I saw the same thing happen with Sony Entertainment right after Everquest went viral. I was an Elder Guide on their game and was tasked directly with dealing with player's issues, dealing with trouble tickets, handling the forums, ect. Once the game was picked up and the second expansion came out, Sony took all those positions and brought them in house so they could control everything. The forum went through a 'sanitation phase and a lot of people were peeved but Sony was doing what it felt was necessary to consolidate everything into one department and putting all the things from support tickets to forum posts under one, huge umbrella policy and procedure document. Us guides were relegated to RP events only.
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 3, 2019 1:16:51 GMT -5
The easiest way to keep a forum that requires registration “sanitized” is by not acting like douchebags towards your core community....
And fighting fire with gasoline is usually not very effective.
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Post by mrohde4 on Sept 3, 2019 9:52:43 GMT -5
It has been a while since I tackled tort law but here is what I've seen. HB has taken down the names of the courses and made them non-searchable. So names like Augusta, Magnolia, ect. I can still play the course as I have it faved but it is just named ******* now. From a trademark standpoint, it is easier to go after things like usages of logos, flags and of course the names like "The Masters" and Augusta because they are being used in conjunction of a golf game. What is harder to prove harm is when it comes to the course itself. HB didn't create these courses, nor has it promoted their game by stating it has these courses. Also they haven't made these courses "official" courses. So technically no one would know that any of these courses actually exist unless they play the game and go looking for them. HB is thus not making any money directly from having a "Masters" course on its server. The same goes for the creators. They weren't paid to create them nor are they making any money from having created the course. In other words the organization that controls the Masters isn't losing money and no one is gaining money from having these courses on the HB servers. So since no one is making money directly off the course creations, it is difficult to prove any 'harm' and despite the fact that some of these RCRs are very good, they are still artistic representations of the course. Would HB fight a lawsuit? Overall I can see where they wouldn't do it over trademarked names/logos but they might very well fight one on RCRs since that is a big part of their game, the ability for any course creator to make any course they want, from the local city course to the most well known courses in the world. The key here is that it isn't HB that is creating these courses but non-paid, every day folks like you or I. SO i think the courses themselves will be fine unless they have something like "Augusta" or the map with the hole in Georgia that is sculpted somewhere in flowers on the course. The names on the other hand is an easy fix and something they can address in the next iteration of the game but simply not allowing some naming conventions and putting it in their EULA.
As for HB, back in 2015 I think they were a lot more accommodating with their users and more amiable in talking with us and including us in decisions and at least in communication. HB is now trying to play with the big boys. Partnering with larger corporations who all have their own rules, in an industry that has to worry more about lawsuits. Simply put, HB is growing, more people are taking notice of them and they have a whole new rule book to play with and sadly this includes quick delete buttons on forum posts that might upset some corporate entity. My guess is they are still trying to expand and gain more partners and to do so they gotta keep their forums pretty sanitized.
That being said, I did play the course we played this year in April and it is still up and functioning. HB may still in the end decide it isn't worth dealing with it in this iteration of the game. It is far easier to simply delete the courses from the servers and put a new restriction in the next EULA as well as some other safe guards than it is to have to pour over 100,000 courses to see which ones might cause an issue. I saw the same thing happen with Sony Entertainment right after Everquest went viral. I was an Elder Guide on their game and was tasked directly with dealing with player's issues, dealing with trouble tickets, handling the forums, ect. Once the game was picked up and the second expansion came out, Sony took all those positions and brought them in house so they could control everything. The forum went through a 'sanitation phase and a lot of people were peeved but Sony was doing what it felt was necessary to consolidate everything into one department and putting all the things from support tickets to forum posts under one, huge umbrella policy and procedure document. Us guides were relegated to RP events only. Terrific post, but it's slightly disingenuous to claim HB hasn't gained from hosting these courses on its servers. Sure, they don't feature any RCR's in their official marketing material and they didn't create the course files. I get that. But whenever I talk about this franchise, immediately I boast about the robust designer and how anyone can play a spot-on rendition of ******* National. Willing to bet many do the same. It's a major selling point for word-of-mouth advertising, and HB hosts the courses. Surely there are internal HB communications that establish their knowledge of ********'s existence and its positive effect on potential buyers. And proving harm isn't necessary if you can show someone else's violation/dilution of your trademark rights. *NGC just wants control over the use of their trademarks, and unfortunately the law provides them these protections.
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