|
Post by mde8965 on Aug 8, 2019 8:49:17 GMT -5
This may be a popular or very unpopular opinion based on your point of view.
In my opinion the forum rules have relaxed way too much. I mean, yeah the PGA threads are always a crap show with nearly overt cheating accusations, etc. And I wish those would calm down and be more about golf. But even as they are they are mostly in fun... so this is not what I’m talking about
For instance there’s a thread on here now where somebody is POd about getting APId. In that thread he tells someone to F off. He also says “you all are idiots”. This is just an example. When I joined here mid season 2. There were strict rules about no personal attacks, public cheating accusations, Naughty word nannies, etc. in the above thread example those personal attacks would have resulted in a 2 week time out.
The forum back then was much more friendly. People offering tips and tricks, thread discussions about the week’s event that stayed on track or else closed. The good natured ribbing was in its own thread. And everyone seemed to have much more respect for Tim, Doyley and the admins and designers, course schedulers and rangers as well as the society event owners. It just seemed like much more of a tight knit community.
Nowadays it just seems like most threads are expressing displeasure at something or someone...
Maybe it’s me. Am I becoming a snowflake? For those that have been around for 3+ years do you feel the same or am I just daft? I know, I know...the irony. A thread complaining about all the complaining. But it’s more about the lack of respect for forum rules and less enforcement of those rules.
|
|
|
Post by TreeWood on Aug 8, 2019 12:43:53 GMT -5
This may be a popular or very unpopular opinion based on your point of view. In my opinion the forum rules have relaxed way too much. I mean, yeah the PGA threads are always a crap show with nearly overt cheating accusations, etc. And I wish those would calm down and be more about golf. But even as they are they are mostly in fun... so this is not what I’m talking about For instance there’s a thread on here now where somebody is POd about getting APId. In that thread he tells someone to F off. He also says “you all are idiots”. This is just an example. When I joined here mid season 2. There were strict rules about no personal attacks, public cheating accusations, Naughty word nannies, etc. in the above thread example those personal attacks would have resulted in a 2 week time out. The forum back then was much more friendly. People offering tips and tricks, thread discussions about the week’s event that stayed on track or else closed. The good natured ribbing was in its own thread. And everyone seemed to have much more respect for Tim, Doyley and the admins and designers, course schedulers and rangers as well as the society event owners. It just seemed like much more of a tight knit community. Nowadays it just seems like most threads are expressing displeasure at something or someone... Maybe it’s me. Am I becoming a snowflake? For those that have been around for 3+ years do you feel the same or am I just daft? I know, I know...the irony. A thread complaining about all the complaining. But it’s more about the lack of respect for forum rules and less enforcement of those rules. Agree wholeheartedly with what you've posted. I've seen a couple instances in recent months where I was very surprised that the Banhammer failed to fall...
|
|
|
Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 8, 2019 13:17:01 GMT -5
I'm here by more or less Three months..nothing, in fact. And this is also the first forum in which i decided to partecipate (while i already followed some forum before, mainly about rfactor, but never really interested to be involved more than the necessary. And even IRL I don't talk too much and it could seems that i don't like people, in some way, normally) and i decided to participate here exactly cause, reading here and there, it seemed to be a really healthy community, full of nice people. I have the same feeling today.
Obviously, it works as any other human community : There is fantastic people, nice people, good people, not so good people, people who is not meat and not fish, not nice at all people, a$$holes and then people who could ever make change your mind about abortion...and so go on. It's something normal, I suppose. We're all different and to follow the rules is something not good enough for everyone. And..probably as it works for every human community, the bigger it is the community, more probable is to find stupid and unkind people. Maybe, if you see things a bit worst, looking at three years ago, could be for this reason. Bigger the community, bigger variety of people and problems. This place can't be perfect cause perfection is just impossible to have, but is a great place.
If I could make just an objection..not exactly a complaint, just something i saw and i find a bit sad. An attitude that I perfectly understand, cause is an almost obvious dynamic into every community, trying to defend friends and/or the forum, is what happens sometimes when a new and unknown guy says something wrong in a wrong way (I'm not talking about vulgarity or exaggerate unkindness, just maybe some stupid thing said in a stupid wrong way, I mean. Nothing unforgivable, in fact). And then one, two, four, seven guys attacks that person in a way maybe not too offensive, but that became really heavy exactly cause are too much, the people who speaks against one single guy. I don't like this, honestly. And no matter how wrong the first guy could be at the start.
I saw this thing happening quite often here, to be honest. Maybe a bit too, often.
Some time ago, for example, when a new guy complained in a for sure inappropriate way about a course, in his opinion built in an unfair way. From that observation, wrong for sure, then I saw 3-4 pages of jokes, irrespective speaking, even some insults. From at least 7-8 guys. The idea maybe was fair (defend a designer and a friend) but the way were wrong. The border between legitimate defense of friends and to act like bullies, it can be really little.
This just to say how, sometimes, bad things happens. And that we can always improve..as a single person..and as community.
But so said, I really see this place still well healthy. In many ways. And the reality is that a$$holes, soon or later, here have or to shut up, or to disappear, or to change profile almost monthly or to act nicely. Until this trend will continue, I think we could say easily that the place is safe, after all.
|
|
|
Post by SmilingGoats on Aug 8, 2019 13:38:50 GMT -5
For instance there’s a thread on here now where somebody is POd about getting APId. In that thread he tells someone to F off. He also says “you all are idiots”. For the record, the person to whom you're referring is no longer a member here as of as soon as I woke up and read that crap. Edit: Not just for that, though it was enough, but he also has made numerous derogatory remarks towards admin in the fair play thread.
|
|
|
Post by mde8965 on Aug 8, 2019 13:47:13 GMT -5
Hey Ezz. I can see both sides of your scenario. There really shouldn’t be personal attacks going on overtly in this forum regardless. Again in my opinion. But at the same time, veterans and specifically in this case, a designer, could take a new person complaining about a course design as a lack of respect. It works the same in all forums everywhere. A new person that comes in new and is making complaints is labeled a troll.
I don’t design, but have mad respect for the people who do. And I also have sincere appreciation that these folks spend dozens of hours to design a course to benefit the community. So as a non designer I am very hesitant to do much criticizing of a design. Not saying I haven’t done it. But when I have I almost immediately feel like a tool. I try very hard to leave design discussions and criticisms to other designers who will hopefully do it in a constructive way to help make the person better at it.
|
|
|
Post by mde8965 on Aug 8, 2019 14:02:04 GMT -5
For instance there’s a thread on here now where somebody is POd about getting APId. In that thread he tells someone to F off. He also says “you all are idiots”. For the record, the person to whom you're referring is no longer a member here as of as soon as I woke up and read that crap. Edit: Not just for that, though it was enough, but he also has made numerous derogatory remarks towards admin in the fair play thread. Thanks Tim. I hope you did not take my thread as yet another criticism of admin. I really would like to see people show more respect for the rules and respect for you guys. I just don’t want to wake up one day and you all have decided we all are just too much trouble and unappreciative and TGCT goes poof! Your site and everyone top to bottom gives so much entertainment for free basically. Oh and that’s another thing. If us unappreciative folks don’t design, ranger, schedule or any thing else to volunteer then you really should consider throwing in a couple bucks to TGCT once in a while (I just did). Can’t expect the admin to pay for all this too!
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Aug 8, 2019 14:06:46 GMT -5
This may be a popular or very unpopular opinion based on your point of view. In my opinion the forum rules have relaxed way too much. I mean, yeah the PGA threads are always a crap show with nearly overt cheating accusations, etc. And I wish those would calm down and be more about golf. But even as they are they are mostly in fun... so this is not what I’m talking about For instance there’s a thread on here now where somebody is POd about getting APId. In that thread he tells someone to F off. He also says “you all are idiots”. This is just an example. When I joined here mid season 2. There were strict rules about no personal attacks, public cheating accusations, Naughty word nannies, etc. in the above thread example those personal attacks would have resulted in a 2 week time out. The forum back then was much more friendly. People offering tips and tricks, thread discussions about the week’s event that stayed on track or else closed. The good natured ribbing was in its own thread. And everyone seemed to have much more respect for Tim, Doyley and the admins and designers, course schedulers and rangers as well as the society event owners. It just seemed like much more of a tight knit community. Nowadays it just seems like most threads are expressing displeasure at something or someone... Maybe it’s me. Am I becoming a snowflake? For those that have been around for 3+ years do you feel the same or am I just daft? I know, I know...the irony. A thread complaining about all the complaining. But it’s more about the lack of respect for forum rules and less enforcement of those rules. Way back when people would offer tips and tidbits of info to help others who were struggling. Fast forward to today's TGC Tours and everyone is pretty tight lipped. One of 2 things could be happening. People don't want to help others at all anymore...or some people have found something that circumvents fair play and they don't want to share it because it will expose them. I would hope the latter isn't true
|
|
|
Post by mde8965 on Aug 8, 2019 14:14:25 GMT -5
Hey Phlyer. Haven’t talked to you in a while. Hope you are good. For the most part the folks who offered the tips were not the cheaters (one notable exception). And maybe naively I feel that the bulk of folks, even in the Pro ranks are not cheating and whatever.
When I was in CC. There were two very high level players who helped me greatly as I was struggling and frustrated. They not only helped me on the forum but via chat and email. They were never exposed or even accused (as far as I know) of cheating.
If you get so paranoid that everyone is cheating you are cheating yourself because you can’t enjoy the tour. Yeah sure there are folks that are, but I can’t do anything about that, so I choose to ignore it and let API/admin deal with it.
I do agree that people don’t seem as willing to help. It’s a shame.
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Aug 8, 2019 14:52:11 GMT -5
Hey Phlyer. Haven’t talked to you in a while. Hope you are good. For the most part the folks who offered the tips were not the cheaters (one notable exception). And maybe naively I feel that the bulk of folks, even in the Pro ranks are not cheating and whatever. When I was in CC. There were two very high level players who helped me greatly as I was struggling and frustrated. They not only helped me on the forum but via chat and email. They were never exposed or even accused (as far as I know) of cheating. If you get so paranoid that everyone is cheating you are cheating yourself because you can’t enjoy the tour. Yeah sure there are folks that are, but I can’t do anything about that, so I choose to ignore it and let API/admin deal with it. I do agree that people don’t seem as willing to help. It’s a shame. Hey even the most pure players can get flagged by the API...I did. I don't want to use the word "cheat" because I feel it's just too harsh a word. I believe people have something pegged that allows them to play a much easier game than what the programmers envisioned. Every game has a loop hole. That's all I will say on the matter as I adjust my tinfoil hat
|
|
|
Post by Giraffe72 on Aug 8, 2019 15:06:30 GMT -5
Lol, the irony is strong in this thread.....
|
|
|
Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 8, 2019 15:09:38 GMT -5
Hey Ezz. I can see both sides of your scenario. There really shouldn’t be personal attacks going on overtly in this forum regardless. Again in my opinion. But at the same time, veterans and specifically in this case, a designer, could take a new person complaining about a course design as a lack of respect. It works the same in all forums everywhere. A new person that comes in new and is making complaints is labeled a troll. I don’t design, but have mad respect for the people who do. And I also have sincere appreciation that these folks spend dozens of hours to design a course to benefit the community. So as a non designer I am very hesitant to do much criticizing of a design. Not saying I haven’t done it. But when I have I almost immediately feel like a tool. I try very hard to leave design discussions and criticisms to other designers who will hopefully do it in a constructive way to help make the person better at it. I agree. In everything. As a non designer, how I could ever imagine the hours, days, weeks, months behind every course? Only this fact is enough to deserve some respect. Just an idiot could criticize without respect and/or without understand this absolute truth. Or someone who, exactly cause is a new guy, have not really idea about how much hard is to create a course. And of course, to read a critic made with no respect is something that can easily made the blood rush to the head, but I wish just that in first instance the more experienced guys could give a not too rough answer. THEN, if after a "sweet" answer the guy still insists to act like a baby..well..it would be fine to answer and to treat him like a child. But, as I premise, I easily understand why this happens (when it happens) and is absolutely normal. I think that when you join a forum, you need to understand that there are people who share things together maybe by years..and you need to have patience and be just kind to find your space. Is normal. And after all is a funny thing to do. I'm really happy to be here. Fighting to understand better I can the language (and to make me understand by the other guys ), Sometimes I laugh a lot, sometimes I have some argument, but always in a constructive way, for me. I'm starting to know people I really like..well..i'm optimistic looking at this forum's future.
|
|
|
Post by flyingj75 on Aug 8, 2019 16:01:10 GMT -5
Hey Phlyer. Haven’t talked to you in a while. Hope you are good. For the most part the folks who offered the tips were not the cheaters (one notable exception). And maybe naively I feel that the bulk of folks, even in the Pro ranks are not cheating and whatever. When I was in CC. There were two very high level players who helped me greatly as I was struggling and frustrated. They not only helped me on the forum but via chat and email. They were never exposed or even accused (as far as I know) of cheating. If you get so paranoid that everyone is cheating you are cheating yourself because you can’t enjoy the tour. Yeah sure there are folks that are, but I can’t do anything about that, so I choose to ignore it and let API/admin deal with it. I do agree that people don’t seem as willing to help. It’s a shame. Hey even the most pure players can get flagged by the API...I did. I don't want to use the word "cheat" because I feel it's just too harsh a word. I believe people have something pegged that allows them to play a much easier game than what the programmers envisioned. Every game has a loop hole. That's all I will say on the matter as I adjust my tinfoil hat I just like phlyerphanatic cause I assume he's a Philly guy!
|
|
|
Post by B.Smooth13 on Aug 8, 2019 16:28:37 GMT -5
Yes, basically, but not absolutely.
|
|
|
Post by lessthanbread on Aug 9, 2019 10:18:28 GMT -5
As a still relatively new designer but one that has become heavily involved in the craft, I really appreciate any and all feedback as long as it is constructive and something I can use to better myself. It does take many many hours to design a quality course, I put in over 200 hours on both my publishes each, and I think designing in TGC goes beyond simply "playing a video game" and turns into making art. You do really become connected to your course during the process and take real pride in making it the best it can be because of how much time and effort is required and I think it would be upsetting if someone just came in a bashed your course with no constructive thoughts.
I spend a lot of time playing and reviewing other new designers' courses so I have to find constructive ways to tell them when/where they missed the mark. I keep these rules in mind when reviewing a course:
-Play the entire course, no matter how painful -Every course has positive aspects, give praise just as much as criticism. If you can't find anything positive at all, you're not doing your job as a reviewer -Phrase criticism in a positive, constructive way ("I might have done (blank) here" or "For your next course, try doing (blank) instead")
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Aug 10, 2019 7:42:17 GMT -5
Hey even the most pure players can get flagged by the API...I did. I don't want to use the word "cheat" because I feel it's just too harsh a word. I believe people have something pegged that allows them to play a much easier game than what the programmers envisioned. Every game has a loop hole. That's all I will say on the matter as I adjust my tinfoil hat I just like phlyerphanatic cause I assume he's a Philly guy! I've never been to Philly...but I bleed orange and green Eagles and Flyers all the way
|
|