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Post by joegolferg on Aug 9, 2019 6:40:09 GMT -5
Personally i much prefer the challenge of master clubs and would most definitely give up playing tour events if forced to pro clubs. I find pro clubs to be way too easy to enjoy.
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Post by GW_Hope on Aug 9, 2019 6:47:23 GMT -5
I put it here because he referenced what I also said, it’s all about lofting. Sorry, but still I can't understand what you mean. Maybe the minor advantage for short flickers using pro clubs is granted simply by the fact that pro clubs allows a fatter blue line and then who plays in the proper way suffers a bit less (when there is a difficult lie, or when you loft-deloft and situations like this?) or it changes actually something technically for the short flickers and the short flick is not available using pro clubs? Is this that I can't understand. Sorry, I know that probably sounds like a very stupid question, but honestly I don't know exactly what short flick means. I understand that is related with a short and crooked swing, but actually I never tried (and I'm not interested to try), but I need to understand why a lot of people think that the switch to pro clubs can be so useful to minimize their unfair advantage. And..if actually I understand well your first answer and the only difference is that related to the size of the blue line, do you think it will be enough? I mean, enough to switch to pro clubs doe this reason? Cause I voted for the switch but with two BUT. 1) I'm for the switch If the majority of Xbox players are unhappy with master clubs and wants the switch, cause I think this decision should be made mainly by those players. Me as a PC player have not complains big enough to justify switch and I love the idea to test myself on pro tour with the hardest clubs 2) I'm for the switch if actually it can actively fight the short flickers, something for me a lot worst than any possible issue of the game. Is..for this that I ask and wish a clear answer. Thank you...and Sorry again. I understand what you are saying in your question and I really don’t have that answer. But yes it has to do with the accuracy penalty being less on pro clubs for lofting. Will it be perfectly equal, no but it may be enough to discourage players from using it in the first place. No reason to risk a DQ over minimal advantage. I also suggested a trial, it may be a complete bore or it may be very exciting having scores tighten up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 6:58:26 GMT -5
I am following this thread intently, it is very informative. I use Masters clubs on PS4 because I like the challenge, but I like TGCT so much I would use Pro clubs and still play if mandated. I will NEVER make it out of CC as a Master, and probably not as a Pro user either, so that makes no difference to me. I don't Flick, but my long game is still decent. The reason I will not move up is that I CANNOT read greens! I am surely in the bottom third of putting stats. I can practice until my stick thumb cramps but I still don't improve. It is not a matter of hitting the blue line or distance control, just finding the line. I tried the TST and I think I putted OK without grids, but I cannot stand the lack of scout-cam.
Sorry for the digression, but I just wanted to input that for some of us, the club choice is not the reason we suck. Does anyone know if there is a cross-platform difference on putting accuracy?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2019 8:10:52 GMT -5
Forcing pro clubs is just as bad as forcing master clubs. Let people choose their poison and let score decide which tour you play on. Much love and light x
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 9, 2019 8:33:13 GMT -5
Ah the old 'base your entire decision on data from 10 months ago because it suits your argument' concept. Will the data have changed since then? Yes it will have done, as everyone a) will have developed a more consistent swing through repetition over another 40 weeks of play, and b) will actually now most likely be playing with the clubset that they can actually control (for sure a load of people in Q-school will have gone with Masters to attempt to get into the Pro tours (when they simply don't have the physical ability to control masters (no matter which platform they are on) - they will most likely now be using Pro clubs in CC - and thus won't skew the data for Masters clubs down)
Will it still show PS4 is easiest? Yes - for sure it will - but I'd be fairly sure that a similar set of results taken from this week (or last week) will show less variance between the platforms. But funny that no-one in the 'force pro' camp has called for such data........ So in the interests of accuracy of the data that all the discussion is over - Doyley SmilingGoats - can we have the same data, but for this week's events, so we can see what the CURRENT (rather than totally outdated) stats on tempo by platform are? Then everyone can at least argue over accurate current data...... So, let's assume that XBox players have improved greatly and the percentage of perfect temp on XBox comes in at around 75%. That would tell us that XBox players have closed the gap. But here's the problem: It doesn't tell us why they've closed the gap. After a full year of practice, XBox players would have gotten to where PS4 users are. There is an upper limit to what percentage of shots can be perfect - 100%. Let's assume that, after a week of practice, PS4 players had nailed it down to 100% perfect, and XBox players were at 50%. Clearly, XBox is harder. Then, let's assume, after a full year of practice, both platforms are at 100% perfect. Does that mean that XBox isn't harder to master anymore? No, it doesn't. XBox is still harder, but not totally impossible. So, by grabbing updated data, you're not exactly measuring objective difficulty, but instead measuring how well players have adapted after a year with the game. It still falls short of being able to conclude that XBox is not harder, even if the gap is negligible. It's because there is an upper limit as to how good you can be. We don't know if PS4 players are getting perfect swings that are "more perfect" in a sense.
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junuh5
Caddy
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Tour: Elite
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Post by junuh5 on Aug 9, 2019 18:14:03 GMT -5
I respect what you are saying. I play on PS4. Maybe I am wrong but I hear some people especially Xbox players blaming the systems. I don't believe this, and I am almost willing to go buy an Xbox one and TGC2019 to check for myself. Also,if there was a PGA Master club league and a PGA Pro club league regardless of platform they would never play against each other so how could the WGR be accurate. Would you have #1 in the world on Master clubs and then #1 in the world on Pro clubs. I guess this would be satisfactory. But I feel there should only be One #1.
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Post by cephyn on Aug 9, 2019 18:23:10 GMT -5
I respect what you are saying. I play on PS4. Maybe I am wrong but I hear some people especially Xbox players blaming the systems. I don't believe this, and I am almost willing to go buy an Xbox one and TGC2019 to check for myself. Also,if there was a PGA Master club league and a PGA Pro club league regardless of platform they would never play against each other so how could the WGR be accurate. Would you have #1 in the world on Master clubs and then #1 in the world on Pro clubs. I guess this would be satisfactory. But I feel there should only be One #1. The data doesn't lie. People that play both have said xbox is way harder on master clubs than ps4. Go buy one and see. there are literally top players that struggled on xbox to compete at the top tier, went out and bought ps4s and now compete.
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 9, 2019 18:57:04 GMT -5
I respect what you are saying. I play on PS4. Maybe I am wrong but I hear some people especially Xbox players blaming the systems. I don't believe this, and I am almost willing to go buy an Xbox one and TGC2019 to check for myself. Your anecdotal story - should it come to pass - means very little against a data set of hundreds of rounds. The data is what it is, and it strongly suggests that it's more difficult to achieve perfect tempo on XBox.
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Post by GW_Hope on Aug 10, 2019 21:21:54 GMT -5
The one thing about the Xbox vs PS4 thing is there is an option for anybody to fix it. Get a PS4 if it means a lot to you. If I could spend a few hundred for a way to compete with flickers I would. But the only way to fix that is flick myself and hopefully dodge the API each week. The real reason I don’t is I think that would be morally wrong.
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 10, 2019 21:28:14 GMT -5
The one thing about the Xbox vs PS4 thing is there is an option for anybody to fix it. Get a PS4 if it means a lot to you. Yes, everyone has a spare $350 to drop on getting a PS4. Just to compete on a free online Tour Site for fake money. What if it doesn't mean that much? Should this site be unfair to those players who just happen to have an XBox instead of a PS4?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 22:32:41 GMT -5
I respect what you are saying. I play on PS4. Maybe I am wrong but I hear some people especially Xbox players blaming the systems. I don't believe this, and I am almost willing to go buy an Xbox one and TGC2019 to check for myself. Also,if there was a PGA Master club league and a PGA Pro club league regardless of platform they would never play against each other so how could the WGR be accurate. Would you have #1 in the world on Master clubs and then #1 in the world on Pro clubs. I guess this would be satisfactory. But I feel there should only be One #1. It wouldn’t be any different to there being a world number 1 on the pro tours and a world number 1 for amateur like there is in real life. The rankings do seem kind of pointless to me now seeing as WGC and majors are now decided by top 50 in fed ex for WGC or if youre on the PGA you get in the majors. I assume if theres a Presidents cup this year or Ryder Cup next year that WGR points will not be a factor on getting selected (i think it was for the Euros last time around). What is it that makes the Xbox swing so hard to get perfect downswing? I’ve never played it, so just curious. I couldn’t stand the TGC2 swing which was why I hardly played last season, it seemed as though you had to swing with light pressure and much slower than on TGC1 to get a perfect swing instead of fast. I know there were others who were alot better than me felt the same way. TGC2019 feels more like TGC1 to me. Is it similar to what I was experiencing on TGC2 or is it a crap shoot no matter how you swing it?
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Post by GW_Hope on Aug 10, 2019 22:39:11 GMT -5
The one thing about the Xbox vs PS4 thing is there is an option for anybody to fix it. Get a PS4 if it means a lot to you. Yes, everyone has a spare $350 to drop on getting a PS4. Just to compete on a free online Tour Site for fake money. What if it doesn't mean that much? Should this site be unfair to those players who just happen to have an XBox instead of a PS4? I said it’s an option. Is it not? For me personally, I would but I have no life. I wasn’t being a prick about it, but the reality is nothing will change and at least if your issue is Xbox there is an option, there is no option for the exploits is all I’m saying.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 23:34:58 GMT -5
I respect what you are saying. I play on PS4. Maybe I am wrong but I hear some people especially Xbox players blaming the systems. I don't believe this, and I am almost willing to go buy an Xbox one and TGC2019 to check for myself. Your anecdotal story - should it come to pass - means very little against a data set of hundreds of rounds. The data is what it is, and it strongly suggests that it's more difficult to achieve perfect tempo on XBox. Thousands. Thousands upon thousands.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 6:23:28 GMT -5
To the people who want to enforce pro clubs 2 questions.
When you use a bike do you have stabilizers?
When you go bowling do you use the rails?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 6:27:16 GMT -5
I don't want to force pro clubs on anyone but those questions are stupid.
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