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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 8, 2019 20:55:06 GMT -5
Where exactly is this data that indicates that Master Clubs difficulty isn't balanced across platforms? Is this publicly available? I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere along the line, but would appreciate seeing it if someone can post a link... Earlier today I did a quick eye-test in the CC flights - naturally, filtering for Masters clubs users only, and looking at the respective console results. Interestingly, I saw no appreciable or significant difference between PS4 scores and XB scores in CC-Z and CC-F. In CC-E and above, there did appear to be slightly lower scores on the PS4 side. I ignored PC scores simply because of the relatively small sample sizes. Do the lower scores necessarily indicate easier playability? If so, why isn't that reflected clearly in all flights?? Data is in this thread: tgctours.proboards.com/thread/16583/ps4-easier-statistical-analysis-school?page=1On page 2, Jeff posted this: Here are the Masters Clubs numbers: PS4 - Median Accuracy (0.044166312), Average Percentage of Perfect Downswings - 77% XB1 - Median Accuracy (0.041543424), Average Percentage of Perfect Downswings - 46.86%Steam - Median Accuracy (0.039952909), Average Percentage of Perfect Downswings - 68% There are more than twice as many PS4 rounds represented than XB1 rounds and 4X as many PC rounds in those numbers. By this point, the tours have been pretty well sorted based on the current game state, but a player in, say, Web.com using XBox has a pretty good case that he is as skilled as a Euro or even a PGA player on PS4.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 8, 2019 20:58:54 GMT -5
Oh well! Patrick solved the issue as usual
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 21:03:00 GMT -5
I prefer playing Masters clubs, but I also want competition to be equal. So there is the quandary. Without taking XBOX into account the game on PS4 has competition killing bugs that can’t be controlled. This was found out a month into the season and word of it and techniques have spread. Every week multiple DQs by the same group that refuses to let go of the crutch. I can play Masters clubs in any society but I can’t compete here anymore. My thought is if top players get easy mode then give it to everybody. Now for clarification, I can swing straight and have good tempo but as soon as I get near half loft/deloft I am screwed where as the chosen ones can full loft at will. That is a big deal in the Pros. Whatever happens I support the decision and I would hope any new game fixes this and we go back to the hardest difficulty. I'm in the same boat. I voted for Pro clubs for all even though I'm on PS4, just to make it a level playing field. The next game will probably be out within a year anyway so just do another mass Q school then. I see there is a player on the PGA who has had 14 WD's this season and also 5 top 10's, but whenever he has had strikes he has requested them be removed as he's trying to figure out his swing. At least if we were on Pro clubs we wouldn't have situations like that.
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 8, 2019 21:11:10 GMT -5
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Post by GW_Hope on Aug 8, 2019 21:44:39 GMT -5
Since we are looking back: Sloaner posted this.
SloanerTW Avatar SloanerTW Ranger ***** Nov 16, 2018 at 6:54pm Brighttail, ijs1543, and 1 more like this Quote likePost Options The RSM Classic (Spoilers) @larrymalone said: GW_Hope said:Congratulations! You’ve just won a ticket back to the top! With no offence intended towards The Ledge, judging by his last couple of PGA rounds I saw on twitch, forget being at the top, he'll be fighting to make cuts if his tempo stays like that! Even XB1 players watching those rounds would think "yeesh, this dude is seriously struggling with tempo...". I play better without trying to short swing. For me to replicate what others "naturally" produce is a crap ton of hoops to jump through and leads to bad tempos. Maybe I need to put a bunch of glue on the top half of my analogue stick so it slows down before it can do a full swing or maybe screw a little plate 1/16" away from the edge of the analogue so I cant ever hit the top and straight shoot like everyone else. Im not calling them cheaters cause im sure there is a reason why the swing doesn't register but its a real big advantage. I hear a lot of people say that as long as your in the blue in the feedback your shot goes straight which is absolute BS theres about a 8-10 box variance on a 9I from left to right edge. Then add short game flops, pitches chipping all easy if it shortlines. Lofting is not a worry either when you cant really miss. try hitting a 5I that needs to land around 190 and get it close. We are definitely playing 2 different games and the only way a full line player has a chance versus a shortline is unfortunately pro clubs for now...
Maybe make the tours pro club mandatory instead of master until this is fixed. Wont be ideal but at least some of us have a chance.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 8, 2019 22:50:06 GMT -5
Since we are looking back: Sloaner posted this. SloanerTW Avatar SloanerTW Ranger ***** Nov 16, 2018 at 6:54pm Brighttail, ijs1543, and 1 more like this Quote likePost Options The RSM Classic (Spoilers) @larrymalone said: GW_Hope said:Congratulations! You’ve just won a ticket back to the top! With no offence intended towards The Ledge, judging by his last couple of PGA rounds I saw on twitch, forget being at the top, he'll be fighting to make cuts if his tempo stays like that! Even XB1 players watching those rounds would think "yeesh, this dude is seriously struggling with tempo...". I play better without trying to short swing. For me to replicate what others "naturally" produce is a crap ton of hoops to jump through and leads to bad tempos. Maybe I need to put a bunch of glue on the top half of my analogue stick so it slows down before it can do a full swing or maybe screw a little plate 1/16" away from the edge of the analogue so I cant ever hit the top and straight shoot like everyone else. Im not calling them cheaters cause im sure there is a reason why the swing doesn't register but its a real big advantage. I hear a lot of people say that as long as your in the blue in the feedback your shot goes straight which is absolute BS theres about a 8-10 box variance on a 9I from left to right edge. Then add short game flops, pitches chipping all easy if it shortlines. Lofting is not a worry either when you cant really miss. try hitting a 5I that needs to land around 190 and get it close. We are definitely playing 2 different games and the only way a full line player has a chance versus a shortline is unfortunately pro clubs for now... Maybe make the tours pro club mandatory instead of master until this is fixed. Wont be ideal but at least some of us have a chance. There is just a thing that I still can't understand exactly. Why the short flickers advantage should to disappear (or is just reduced?) using pro clubs? I mean..is reduced simply cause other players could use a fatter blue line or technically there is something different that makes the short flick unavailable using pro clubs? In short..a mandatory switch to pro clubs could really solve definitely the short flickers issue? (sorry if I'm quite ignorant on this thing..and honestly i don't know if to be happy or not about this )
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 23:09:51 GMT -5
Since we are looking back: Sloaner posted this. SloanerTW Avatar SloanerTW Ranger ***** Nov 16, 2018 at 6:54pm Brighttail, ijs1543, and 1 more like this Quote likePost Options The RSM Classic (Spoilers) @larrymalone said: GW_Hope said:Congratulations! You’ve just won a ticket back to the top! With no offence intended towards The Ledge, judging by his last couple of PGA rounds I saw on twitch, forget being at the top, he'll be fighting to make cuts if his tempo stays like that! Even XB1 players watching those rounds would think "yeesh, this dude is seriously struggling with tempo...". I play better without trying to short swing. For me to replicate what others "naturally" produce is a crap ton of hoops to jump through and leads to bad tempos. Maybe I need to put a bunch of glue on the top half of my analogue stick so it slows down before it can do a full swing or maybe screw a little plate 1/16" away from the edge of the analogue so I cant ever hit the top and straight shoot like everyone else. Im not calling them cheaters cause im sure there is a reason why the swing doesn't register but its a real big advantage. I hear a lot of people say that as long as your in the blue in the feedback your shot goes straight which is absolute BS theres about a 8-10 box variance on a 9I from left to right edge. Then add short game flops, pitches chipping all easy if it shortlines. Lofting is not a worry either when you cant really miss. try hitting a 5I that needs to land around 190 and get it close. We are definitely playing 2 different games and the only way a full line player has a chance versus a shortline is unfortunately pro clubs for now... Maybe make the tours pro club mandatory instead of master until this is fixed. Wont be ideal but at least some of us have a chance. There is just a thing that I still can't understand exactly. Why the short flickers advantage should to disappear (or is just reduced?) using pro clubs? I mean..is reduced simply cause other players could use a fatter blue line or technically there is something different that makes the short flick unavailable using pro clubs? In short..a mandatory switch to pro clubs could really solve definitely the short flickers issue? (sorry if I'm quite ignorant on this thing..and honestly i don't know if to be happy or not about this ) It is a lot more nuanced than my explanation, but...
It would make the fields much more equal, but would also take away SOME of the skill involved at the highest difficulty club set. There is more skill involved than just the swing mind you.
Also, this is just my opinion, and I am not trying to speak for the group.
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Post by GW_Hope on Aug 8, 2019 23:17:20 GMT -5
There is just a thing that I still can't understand exactly. Why the short flickers advantage should to disappear (or is just reduced?) using pro clubs? I mean..is reduced simply cause other players could use a fatter blue line or technically there is something different that makes the short flick unavailable using pro clubs? In short..a mandatory switch to pro clubs could really solve definitely the short flickers issue? (sorry if I'm quite ignorant on this thing..and honestly i don't know if to be happy or not about this ) It is a lot more nuanced than my explanation, but...
It would make the fields much more equal, but would also take away SOME of the skill involved at the highest difficulty club set. There is more skill involved than just the swing mind you.
Also, this is just my opinion, and I am not trying to speak for the group.
I put it here because he referenced what I also said, it’s all about lofting.
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junuh5
Caddy
Posts: 20
Tour: Elite
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Post by junuh5 on Aug 9, 2019 2:00:46 GMT -5
There is an old saying, "Those who can't do, teach." Those that can't shoot low scores on Master clubs use Pro clubs. Forcing Pro clubs on everyone would be unfair and a disaster.
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Post by rob4590 on Aug 9, 2019 2:08:52 GMT -5
Ah the old 'base your entire decision on data from 10 months ago because it suits your argument' concept. Will the data have changed since then? Yes it will have done, as everyone a) will have developed a more consistent swing through repetition over another 40 weeks of play, and b) will actually now most likely be playing with the clubset that they can actually control (for sure a load of people in Q-school will have gone with Masters to attempt to get into the Pro tours (when they simply don't have the physical ability to control masters (no matter which platform they are on) - they will most likely now be using Pro clubs in CC - and thus won't skew the data for Masters clubs down)
Will it still show PS4 is easiest? Yes - for sure it will - but I'd be fairly sure that a similar set of results taken from this week (or last week) will show less variance between the platforms. But funny that no-one in the 'force pro' camp has called for such data........ So in the interests of accuracy of the data that all the discussion is over - Doyley SmilingGoats - can we have the same data, but for this week's events, so we can see what the CURRENT (rather than totally outdated) stats on tempo by platform are? Then everyone can at least argue over accurate current data......
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Post by wellsa27 on Aug 9, 2019 3:20:33 GMT -5
I do prefer the idea of master clubs on the pro tours, being the hardest club to "master".
However, we have to make it fair across platforms, and perhaps pro clubs is the fairest. Then the best are separated by skill round a golf course. I'd still expect to see the same names at the top, but gives each console/system a fair chance.
Now, not saying we must go this way, but does need to be taking into consideration.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 9, 2019 4:13:43 GMT -5
It is a lot more nuanced than my explanation, but...
It would make the fields much more equal, but would also take away SOME of the skill involved at the highest difficulty club set. There is more skill involved than just the swing mind you.
Also, this is just my opinion, and I am not trying to speak for the group.
I put it here because he referenced what I also said, it’s all about lofting. Sorry, but still I can't understand what you mean. Maybe the minor advantage for short flickers using pro clubs is granted simply by the fact that pro clubs allows a fatter blue line and then who plays in the proper way suffers a bit less (when there is a difficult lie, or when you loft-deloft and situations like this?) or it changes actually something technically for the short flickers and the short flick is not available using pro clubs? Is this that I can't understand. Sorry, I know that probably sounds like a very stupid question, but honestly I don't know exactly what short flick means. I understand that is related with a short and crooked swing, but actually I never tried (and I'm not interested to try), but I need to understand why a lot of people think that the switch to pro clubs can be so useful to minimize their unfair advantage. And..if actually I understand well your first answer and the only difference is that related to the size of the blue line, do you think it will be enough? I mean, enough to switch to pro clubs doe this reason? Cause I voted for the switch but with two BUT. 1) I'm for the switch If the majority of Xbox players are unhappy with master clubs and wants the switch, cause I think this decision should be made mainly by those players. Me as a PC player have not complains big enough to justify switch and I love the idea to test myself on pro tour with the hardest clubs 2) I'm for the switch if actually it can actively fight the short flickers, something for me a lot worst than any possible issue of the game. Is..for this that I ask and wish a clear answer. Thank you...and Sorry again.
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Post by nobluffme on Aug 9, 2019 5:50:50 GMT -5
I’m not a regular contributor here, but in my short existence on TGCTours, I was at first discouraged on CC tours because of incredibly low scores. I had first read on these boards that people cheat, which I didn’t think was possible. Then I learned of TST, and believe it is the truest and fairest way to play. So why not make all tours limit aids? I’d like to think cheaters can’t gain advantage putting with green grid turned off. The real joy of TST and very similar to golf IRL is it’s all about the short game. Personally, I feel more gratified shooting +2 on TST than -10 on CC-Pro.
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Post by jacobkessler on Aug 9, 2019 6:34:37 GMT -5
There is an old saying, "Those who can't do, teach." Those that can't shoot low scores on Master clubs use Pro clubs. Forcing Pro clubs on everyone would be unfair and a disaster. Some people (myself included) can’t shoot low on Master clubs, not because they aren’t skilled enough, but because the game is extremely laggy for them. On a system with low and unstable FPS, the game randomly decides to give out very slow downswings as it doesn’t register the swing. This is a problem on pro clubs, but even more so on master clubs. So tell me.... how would it be “unfair” and “a disaster”?
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Post by rob4590 on Aug 9, 2019 6:40:08 GMT -5
I’m not a regular contributor here, but in my short existence on TGCTours, I was at first discouraged on CC tours because of incredibly low scores. I had first read on these boards that people cheat, which I didn’t think was possible. Then I learned of TST, and believe it is the truest and fairest way to play. So why not make all tours limit aids? I’d like to think cheaters can’t gain advantage putting with green grid turned off. The real joy of TST and very similar to golf IRL is it’s all about the short game. Personally, I feel more gratified shooting +2 on TST than -10 on CC-Pro. Every player on TGCT already has the opportunity to play TST alongside their 'main' tour - but out of 3000+ members of TGCT, only ~100 play TST. Mostly due to it being harder / very difficult to read putts etc. Given that a huge majority of the players therefore clearly don't want to play TST-style - changing all the tours to that style (and thus forcing it on everyone) would be a terrible move for TGCT - and would alienate a massive majority of it's players. (Bear in mind that I play TST every week - so I'm far from anti-TST in this reply) Forcing players to do something they don't want to is never a good idea.......
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