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Post by Crazy Croc on Jul 30, 2019 13:06:16 GMT -5
Been around since the start of tgctours, played the majority of my golf in the lower tours, be it Champions or CC. This season is the most enjoyable by far!
Main reason is the relative stable position in a flight. I absolutely detested the yo-yo effect of previous seasons. Whomever came up with the current promotion/relegation idea - give that man a Bell's!
Personally I don't mind having different club sets and different systems competing against one another on the same flight - I understand others saying its unfair - but hey, life ain't perfect and besides, the current promotion/relegation rules probably causes people with the same capabilities irrespective of their system and club choice ending up grouped together over time, so its still kinda fair of sorts - on the lower tours at least.
Filtered leader boards - I still default to all/all, but a cool feature if one wants to quickly see how many of what were playing, thanks for that!
Suggestions for improving - I don't think its broke. Perhaps one can also look at an incentive for Masters users as well when it comes to red ticks, maybe.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jul 30, 2019 15:54:27 GMT -5
I have different feelings about the possibility to change the demo mark logic. And I can't imagine how a change could be implemented. But this theme reminds me that maybe it would be fair also to not allow anymore the switch of clubs after the second round. This thing is something that affects the final standings in an unfair way. Soon or later it will happens (if this is not already happened), that on a week in which in the first 30 position we'll have 18-20 master clubs players and 10-12 pro clubs players after three rounds, to avoid the harder challenge someone will switch to pro clubs just before the fourth round. I don't think this can be considered fair. But this attitude affects in special way (and every week, is not an hypothesis, this is already happening, right now) the fight to avoid a demo mark. They are a lot, the players who, if after 2-3 rounds are struggling using master clubs, just switches to pro clubs to save the journey. But in this way, those guys who have not this kind of "smartness", probably at the end of the ride will be punished beyond their demerits and JUST cause 8-10 or many more players made this switch when they were stinking. I think that who make the choice to use master clubs, is absolutely aware that it could be tough. And if someone suffers an unlucky week, he must just accept it. Sometime you have just to take your medicine. Clear and simple. Nothing personal against no one, I don't have someone in mind while I say this, I swear. Is something that I know it happens really often and I just think that this is exactly the kind of malice that is against the spirit of the game we love and we should fight all these kind of things, here, in my opinion. I strongly believe that who plays golf (yes, even if just on a videogame) should always act as a gentleman (on the course, at least ). Simply this. For this reason i really wish that who switches clubs after the second round would be considered as a wd.
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Post by lions67 on Jul 30, 2019 16:48:04 GMT -5
I would agree with Enzo on his last post. If you start a tournament with A certain set, then you should be forced to finish that tournament with that set. Be it pro or Master Clubs. Seems like cheating to be able to switch back and forth. That would be the only thing that I can think of heading into the next season. Any idea when that next season will start?
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Post by honeybadger64 on Jul 31, 2019 2:47:40 GMT -5
I don't think there is an awful lot wrong with the setup of the Challenge Circuit. Over time, regardless of differences between platform, club sets, suitability of certain courses to certain sets and conditions I think that people pretty much end up where they should be. With more than 600 regular players in flights A to D and probably more in E-Z it would be impossible to please everyone and micro-manage all of the adjustments people desire. I seem to have found my level in the middle of CC-C and may never see a promo mark.
If you want to play single platform competitions, single club set competitions or different setup tours all of these are available within the myriad of societies outside of the regular tour events. I like the leaning towards rewarding the use of master clubs as you head up through the flights, I have been using them in tour events for a couple of months to no great effect but you don't get better over night, and wiping off the inevitable demo marks. I wouldn't be opposed to some tinkering with the demo mark system for master club users as that is probably the one area I interact with most.
I can't see any merit to making all tour flights play with pro clubs because they are slightly more balanced across platforms, why not make everybody play with beginner clubs? It should get more difficult the further up the pyramid you go.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 31, 2019 8:45:30 GMT -5
I would agree with Enzo on his last post. If you start a tournament with A certain set, then you should be forced to finish that tournament with that set. Be it pro or Master Clubs. Seems like cheating to be able to switch back and forth. I disagree. I think doing this puts you at a major disadvantage when compared against players who played with Pro Clubs for 4 rounds. I think the logic that states that if you play any round with Pro Clubs you are considered to have played the entire event with Pro Clubs should remain in place. I would recommend that demotion marks be changed so that Master Club users are not competing with Pro Club users to avoid them. That would de-incentivize switching to Pro Clubs half way through an event. Personally, I would like to see two separate CC Tours: one for Master Clubs and one for Pro Clubs that both feed into Web.com. I don't think there is any good way to compare Master Club users with Pro Club users. I also think that we could do a better job with course selection that is fair to all players by having CC-Pro and CC-Master events on different courses. This doesn't solve the problem with the discrepancy among PS4, PC and XBox users with Master Clubs.
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Post by gopreds66 on Jul 31, 2019 10:48:34 GMT -5
I also like the idea of splitting the tours between Pro club users and Master club users.
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Post by lions67 on Jul 31, 2019 12:08:26 GMT -5
I would agree with Enzo on his last post. If you start a tournament with A certain set, then you should be forced to finish that tournament with that set. Be it pro or Master Clubs. Seems like cheating to be able to switch back and forth. I disagree. I think doing this puts you at a major disadvantage when compared against players who played with Pro Clubs for 4 rounds. I think the logic that states that if you play any round with Pro Clubs you are considered to have played the entire event with Pro Clubs should remain in place. I would recommend that demotion marks be changed so that Master Club users are not competing with Pro Club users to avoid them. That would de-incentivize switching to Pro Clubs half way through an event. Personally, I would like to see two separate CC Tours: one for Master Clubs and one for Pro Clubs that both feed into Web.com. I don't think there is any good way to compare Master Club users with Pro Club users. I also think that we could do a better job with course selection that is fair to all players by having CC-Pro and CC-Master events on different courses. This doesn't solve the problem with the discrepancy among PS4, PC and XBox users with Master Clubs. Absolutely 100% agree with you. However!... what I suggest is at least a start. Personally I feel that everyone on tour should be using the Master Clubs. After all this IS competitive golf is it not?? But I also understand that this is a video game and people can play their game how they like. By being forced to use the set you choose to start a tournament gets rid of ( in theory) a mulligan of sorts. Say you normally use pro clubs, but this week you feel you can smack the Master club, only to find out that hey!... maybe this wasn’t the week after all and I’m going to go back to pro clubs in my second round to make up for those missed strokes. That to me is cheating and should not be allowed. That’s what I’m trying to say. Like I said, I agree with your points but something needs to be done and this is a good start in my mind.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Jul 31, 2019 14:33:54 GMT -5
I disagree. I think doing this puts you at a major disadvantage when compared against players who played with Pro Clubs for 4 rounds. I think the logic that states that if you play any round with Pro Clubs you are considered to have played the entire event with Pro Clubs should remain in place. I would recommend that demotion marks be changed so that Master Club users are not competing with Pro Club users to avoid them. That would de-incentivize switching to Pro Clubs half way through an event. Personally, I would like to see two separate CC Tours: one for Master Clubs and one for Pro Clubs that both feed into Web.com. I don't think there is any good way to compare Master Club users with Pro Club users. I also think that we could do a better job with course selection that is fair to all players by having CC-Pro and CC-Master events on different courses. This doesn't solve the problem with the discrepancy among PS4, PC and XBox users with Master Clubs. Absolutely 100% agree with you. However!... what I suggest is at least a start. Personally I feel that everyone on tour should be using the Master Clubs. After all this IS competitive golf is it not?? But I also understand that this is a video game and people can play their game how they like. By being forced to use the set you choose to start a tournament gets rid of ( in theory) a mulligan of sorts. Say you normally use pro clubs, but this week you feel you can smack the Master club, only to find out that hey!... maybe this wasn’t the week after all and I’m going to go back to pro clubs in my second round to make up for those missed strokes. That to me is cheating and should not be allowed. That’s what I’m trying to say. Like I said, I agree with your points but something needs to be done and this is a good start in my mind. So practically what you're saying this that me and a few others cheated while playing our rounds Kevin? As I've stated all along I play this game for fun and if it stops being fun then I'm out, simple as that.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 31, 2019 17:07:43 GMT -5
Celtic Wolf, if you were only competing against other Master Clubs players to avoid a demotion strike, would you switch to Pro Clubs in the middle of an event, knowing that you would be competing with Pro Club players only if you switched? I am not insinuating that doing exactly that during season 5 is either cheating or unethical. I think it's perfectly fine under the rules. But if the rules were different, would you make the switch?
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jul 31, 2019 17:32:24 GMT -5
Absolutely 100% agree with you. However!... what I suggest is at least a start. Personally I feel that everyone on tour should be using the Master Clubs. After all this IS competitive golf is it not?? But I also understand that this is a video game and people can play their game how they like. By being forced to use the set you choose to start a tournament gets rid of ( in theory) a mulligan of sorts. Say you normally use pro clubs, but this week you feel you can smack the Master club, only to find out that hey!... maybe this wasn’t the week after all and I’m going to go back to pro clubs in my second round to make up for those missed strokes. That to me is cheating and should not be allowed. That’s what I’m trying to say. Like I said, I agree with your points but something needs to be done and this is a good start in my mind. So practically what you're saying this that me and a few others cheated while playing our rounds Kevin? As I've stated all along I play this game for fun and if it stops being fun then I'm out, simple as that. Pat, do you know what is the main problem with what you says? Is that the quote "I play this game for fun" is the exact kind of thing that I ear from the short flickers, for example. I'm not comparing the two things, but is the consequence of a wrong attitude. I understand what you mean and i'm fully aware that there's not a rule about this. But I feel as an obvious thing that if you switch to an easier set of clubs before the start of the last round cause you're suffering to score well, this is not about fun, is about to avoid a demo mark. Is different. Unless you mean that you have fun only when you scores well. But if we embrace this idea, do everything then would be fine in the name of the fun? There are the rules and there is an ethic side about what we do. And we here are mocking a great, magic and ancient game in which the ethic is important almost if not even more than the rules. And this kind of things is against the ethic, cause indirectly you damage other players. That's all. As above said, please trust me when I say there's nothing personal here. I absolutely know that you're a correct guy, but this thing is wrong, even if is not against a rule. Or, at least, is what I feel.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Jul 31, 2019 17:34:36 GMT -5
Celtic Wolf , if you were only competing against other Master Clubs players to avoid a demotion strike, would you switch to Pro Clubs in the middle of an event, knowing that you would be competing with Pro Club players only if you switched? I am not insinuating that doing exactly that during season 5 is either cheating or unethical. I think it's perfectly fine under the rules. But if the rules were different, would you make the switch? Yes I would've switched because playing master clubs at Portrush wasn't enjoyable for me at all. I don't have time to play a lot of practice rounds with master clubs, so I'm trying them out in a competitive atmosphere.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Jul 31, 2019 17:55:41 GMT -5
So practically what you're saying this that me and a few others cheated while playing our rounds Kevin? As I've stated all along I play this game for fun and if it stops being fun then I'm out, simple as that. Pat, do you know what is the main problem with what you says? Is that the quote "I play this game for fun" is the exact kind of thing that I ear from the short flickers, for example. I'm not comparing the two things, but is the consequence of a wrong attitude. I understand what you mean and i'm fully aware that there's not a rule about this. But I feel as an obvious thing that if you switch to an easier set of clubs before the start of the last round cause you're suffering to score well, this is not about fun, is about to avoid a demo mark. Is different. Unless you mean that you have fun only when you scores well. But if we embrace this idea, do everything then would be fine in the name of the fun? There are the rules and there is an ethic side about what we do. And we here are mocking a great, magic and ancient game in which the ethic is important almost if not even more than the rules. And this kind of things is against the ethic, cause indirectly you damage other players. That's all. As above said, please trust me when I say there's nothing personal here. I absolutely know that you're a correct guy, but this thing is wrong, even if is not against a rule. Or, at least, is what I feel. So I should change the way I play the game because my approach to it is different from others? I can withdraw from this week pick up the demotion marks drop down to CC-B and finish the season there. I'll leave the conversation here before it goes too far.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Jul 31, 2019 19:42:39 GMT -5
Deeply sorry if I offended you in some way, really. Was not my intention to insult you, not counting the fact that you're a nice person, for the little I can see, and i respect and appreciate you really a lot. I hope you can trust me. And you're right, you're free to play the way you like. And, again, my thought was not mainly for you. I simply have this idea very clear in my mind from the start, well before the tournament at Royal Portrush. And still i have it. They're just different point of views, I suppose. Sorry.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jul 31, 2019 22:05:01 GMT -5
If the rule was that players who used only Master Clubs were competing only against other players who only used Master Clubs to avoid demotion strikes, then players who switch clubs during the event would be at a disadvantage. They'd be competing against only players who used Pro Clubs for at least one round - most of whom would have used Pro Clubs for all 4 rounds.
Switching to this rule for demotion marks (it is already in place for promotion marks) would eliminate the argument about this entirely. Players would only switch if it made the game more enjoyable, as they would be at a competitive disadvantage.
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Post by lions67 on Jul 31, 2019 22:46:02 GMT -5
Absolutely 100% agree with you. However!... what I suggest is at least a start. Personally I feel that everyone on tour should be using the Master Clubs. After all this IS competitive golf is it not?? But I also understand that this is a video game and people can play their game how they like. By being forced to use the set you choose to start a tournament gets rid of ( in theory) a mulligan of sorts. Say you normally use pro clubs, but this week you feel you can smack the Master club, only to find out that hey!... maybe this wasn’t the week after all and I’m going to go back to pro clubs in my second round to make up for those missed strokes. That to me is cheating and should not be allowed. That’s what I’m trying to say. Like I said, I agree with your points but something needs to be done and this is a good start in my mind. So practically what you're saying this that me and a few others cheated while playing our rounds Kevin? As I've stated all along I play this game for fun and if it stops being fun then I'm out, simple as that. [bra Pat. First off, I am not calling you a cheater. If you want to use pro clubs, then use pro clubs. BUT! What I AM saying is if you start a tournament with pro OR Master , then you need to finish that tournament with that set of clubs. To switch to pro from master to try to avoid demotion or gain position IS cheating. I’m not calling YOU a cheater. I like you, and you know that. But I don’t feel it’s fair to drop down when you feel like it DURING a tournament. TGCTOURS should be above that. And so should it’s members. Again Pat, this isn’t personal and I never mentioned anyone when stating this.
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