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Post by linkslover on May 22, 2019 1:54:18 GMT -5
The Swiss Wall is going to feature a hole with a huge drop off the tee. I didn't want to reveal it fully as I wanted people to be surprised by it. However, having seen Matt write that one courses is being rejected due to, among other things, a large drop tee shot, we had dialogue. While he assurred me it isn't enough to reject a course in it's own right, it needs to be done well and suggested I put it to the public for feedback. The hole is going to have the player tee off the top of The Swiss Wall to a fairway at the bottom of it. As a result, it is a massive drop down. Here is the flyover view. When hitting the ball, it looks like you're teeing off into a forest but there is a carefully placed marker post right in front of the tee to guide the player. This is the view from some way behind the landing area, which is where the fairway is widest part way back in shot. And the view using the shot zoom cam (for want of a better way of putting it). The hole is very long for a par 4 at 655 yards. However, during play testing when designing the hole I was hitting it with a driver and a 4 iron when I found the fairway using pro clubs. In one play through this morning so I could get the screens above, I hit it with driver and 5 iron again with pro clubs. The fairway is extra wide at the landing area at around 50 yards to compensate the further ball flight off the tee. To me it's perfectly playable as a par 4. What are the thoughts of the forum? (I've nearly finished the 16th so I'm looking to publish in probably 3-4 weeks all being well).
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Post by rjwils30 on May 22, 2019 2:17:33 GMT -5
Hell why not!
My biggest question. How do you get the routing up there? The reason I ask is that the hole is going to feel pretty disjointed otherwise. Perhaps it’s an elevator!
Another thought. It might be interesting to throw some strategy or something heroic into the tee shot or approach. Introduce something that requires a carry where judging the distance would be critical. Might be cool to make the fairway wider and provide multiple paths. It’s such a big move, If you’re going to do something big you might as well make it big all the way.
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Post by linkslover on May 22, 2019 8:18:38 GMT -5
The waypoints work well, as does the flyover cam.
There are two options down from the tee to the fairway. One is by helicopter, the other is by lift, disguised as telegraph poles since the game doesn't have cable cars.
There's one element I haven't yet seen how will influence the shot and that is wind. I've only tested it from the designer so far. I'll have to have a go tonight during offline play.
I'm not sure (yet?) about putting in a (forced) carry or multiple routes as I think it may be too much. Plus I have a hole later on that has two fairways.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on May 22, 2019 11:10:00 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents...
I'd make the hole as easy as possible myself. Maybe a short iron approach. Or make it a par 5. In high winds i don't think many people would know how to play an 800 ft drop. It seems like this is the kind of signature hole that's about the view and experience than it is about the challenge. Having to hack a 4 iron out of the rough seems like something that would turn people off from an otherwise great idea.
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Post by linkslover on May 23, 2019 11:44:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback 15eicheltower9.
I played it offline last night with default settings for wind. I ended up with a tail wind and hit the fairway from the tee and found the green with a 7 iron. I'll have to find out which wind is head wind and try that too.
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Post by lessthanbread on May 28, 2019 23:15:56 GMT -5
I was considering a huge drop on my first course like this. Ultimately decided against it in favor of a smaller drop tee shot followed by another downhill approach to the green.
I obviously think the fairway should be very wide and receptive for this kind of shot. I would be interested to see what kind of approach you’d be left with in a very strong headwind. I’m guessing in normal conditions you’re getting around 500 yards off the tee. With a strong headwind I could see a hole like this not being reachable in regulation.
It’s a gamble and I personally would love to play it being big fan of extreme shots and designers pushing the envelope. But yeah it’s a gamble. Lots a variability in the result given different conditions
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Post by b101 on May 29, 2019 2:53:47 GMT -5
Have you tried deliberately hitting a very slow/very fast to see how far wide it puts you? I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea in principle, but hard to do without making it feel like a gimmick IMO.
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Post by linkslover on May 30, 2019 1:50:18 GMT -5
The fairway is very wide on this hole for the drive before it narrows further up. The other holes on the course have their fairways around 25-30 yards wide. The second hole fairway is around 50 yards wide.
Designer play testing sees me hitting tee shots around 460-470 yards using the pro clubs which is leaving a 4 or 5 iron to the green. I'll do some more offline play testing using different winds. I'll have to see which way a head, cross and tail wind goes and see what effect it has.
Gimmicky? Perhaps, but the course is called The Swiss Wall for a reason. It features a cliff on the course that is loosely based on the real life Le Mur Suisse (translates to The Swiss Wall) which is an unclassified ski run on the French/Swiss border in the Alps above Avoriaz. (The ski run is unclassified because it's so bloody difficult - generally regarded as the most difficult in Europe (and possibly the world?))
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Post by linkslover on May 30, 2019 1:50:53 GMT -5
Oh, not tried a very slow/very fast swing - the idea in golf is to try and hit good shots.
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Post by b101 on May 30, 2019 2:45:18 GMT -5
Oh, not tried a very slow/very fast swing - the idea in golf is to try and hit good shots. True, but we all hit bad shots - just want to make sure that from 900ft up, the curve doesn’t put you in the middle of the 18th, say...
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Post by linkslover on May 30, 2019 6:00:20 GMT -5
Oh, not tried a very slow/very fast swing - the idea in golf is to try and hit good shots. True, but we all hit bad shots - just want to make sure that from 900ft up, the curve doesn’t put you in the middle of the 18th, say... Trees most likely. Another hole... how bad are you?
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Post by b101 on May 30, 2019 8:11:53 GMT -5
True, but we all hit bad shots - just want to make sure that from 900ft up, the curve doesn’t put you in the middle of the 18th, say... Trees most likely. Another hole... how bad are you? Haha, I’ve never tried hitting a very fast from 900ft up so no idea where it ends up! Let alone with wind - you say you’ve tested downwind, what about crosswind with a poor swing? And that’s my point - we all have them in us, so you need to factor it in when coming up with landing areas with your hole design. The joke about two fairways aside, given how much you are pushing the elevation change, it could mean a slightly poor swing puts you in the middle of huge amounts of trees where you either have three or so hacks out back to the fairway or you have to take an unplayable. The point is, I’d check it so that you know what you are punishing people with for a poor drive - is it a half stroke/one stroke/more penalty? For my money, if it is more than one, then I’d change the landing area.
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Post by linkslover on May 30, 2019 9:59:24 GMT -5
I'll see after some testing. The fairway is already about double the width of all the others. I need to test wind and b101, er, I mean bad shots.
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