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Post by B.Smooth13 on Apr 30, 2019 8:36:12 GMT -5
In the likely event that I'm unable to convince Mr Canuck to plant the highlands course I'm working on, I thought it would be a good idea to ask for some suggestions. Planting is by far and away my biggest weakness, and I'd very much like to not suck at it. I know planting strategies are very different between themes, hence the focus on highlands here.
I'll break my request for suggestions into 2 general categories: - What best practices have you found to provide the most captivating visual experience? Combination of sculpting with planting, multi-planting larger bushes, partially burying large bushes, etc. - what is one or two "go-to's" that you use in your designs which you feel would be helpful to know?
- What is a great example of a really well planted highlands course that I should study for reference? Feel free to throw out more than one, and maybe provide a sentence or two about why you feel the course is so well planted.
As I told Andre in my message to him, this is an area of design I just don't see. I think I have some basics down in some themes, but nothing I make ever really has that "wow" that I hear so often from some of the most visually talented designers. I have no illusions that I'll get to that level, but I'd at least like to start learning how to do it better, what I'm not doing that I should be, and maybe what I shouldn't do that I am. Thanks for the suggestions!
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Post by cephyn on Apr 30, 2019 8:37:52 GMT -5
In for replies on this one, since I really, really struggle with planting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 8:43:28 GMT -5
Ohh, I'm watching this thread....
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
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TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
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Post by reebdoog on Apr 30, 2019 8:45:45 GMT -5
Highlands sculpting is all about contrasts. Smooth elevation changes next to drastic rocky areas. smoothly rounded spots that suddenly fall off a cliff. Shadows from the land itself highlighting hollows or hills. The planting itself is much like any other in that it grows where normal plants would so not on rocky spots all that well, grasses and brush really taking over low areas and more wispy stuff taking the tops of mounds and such. The style has to be yours but I think highlands really calls for contrast in terrain along with pops of color here and there while using the planting to highlight the terrain. Not terribly helpful as it's really more artistic than anything...but there you go if ya care.
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Post by jwtexan on Apr 30, 2019 8:57:48 GMT -5
I am no expert at all, considering I've done exactly one course, but I will add to the "what courses to look at" part of your question and then lurk for more tips... *grabs chair*
I like: -The Dunes at Broken Hills Found it on youtube since it is actually a TGC2 course.
-Laugharne Petty fan here, so this one was an easy choice.
-Ardoilean Not your typical gorse, but amazing bushes. Managed to make the bushes eye candy somehow... awesome Terry.
-Old Head Golf Links (RCR) Real course, so he didn't go over the top with bushes because that isn't the way it looks. But it is great.
-Gauntlet Coast Does a great job of planting up against hills/cliffs etc while leaving them naturally bare.
-Platinum Point In case you were wanting to do highlands on the coast nice and low near the beach. Just awesome.
I discovered a lot of these courses after I finished Tantallon. So the original doesn't really stand up to those at all. With what little plant meter I had left after I was told to fix the lag on 18 to be on tour, I went back and added a ton of gorse to connect it more throughout the course in my "Tantallon Castle (Tour)" publish. But looking back still, I wish I added more bushes of different color and different sizes to add to the contrast of just constant brown everywhere.
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Apr 30, 2019 9:02:26 GMT -5
I usually use pictures of real courses that I feel are visually similar to what I'm trying to do as a guide/starting point. That's more or less what I did with Shelter Island (which was Highlands themed). Once I had a couple holes that looked decent from mostly going off of pictures, I felt more comfortable planting the rest based on what fit my eye. Ardoilean is an example of a superbly planted/sculpted Highlands course. For a contrasting example, I thought coruler2 's World Cup course (Connemara? could have the spelling wrong), had a really nice look with pretty minimal planting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 9:32:58 GMT -5
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Post by staypuft39 on Apr 30, 2019 9:49:45 GMT -5
Not sure how many points this will be, but here we go....
- I plant almost exclusively in patches, unless the sculpting/plans call for a big gully or whatever.
- A patch normally starts with a large buried tree or, ideally, a mix of buried trees and bushes/gorse that are fairly large. I then work outwards toward the fairway with smaller bushes and grass. This way the player sees all the layers and hopefully the lighting plays well off the shadows created.
- I find planting looks better in a slight depression. The light crests over the bushes in a slightly different way and shadows are more pronounced.
- To that point, going toward the sun, having bushes all over the top of a hill looks dynamite. Reeb, Terry, Eric and DAM did this perfectly with Ardoilean. Much more exciting than looking at a bare hilltop.
- Final thing would be to plan your course around 3 (or so) major landmarks. Make a big, well planted, gully and have 2 greensites and 2 teeboxes around it. Try and maximize the amount of times people see your best work and minimize time spent elsewhere.
Will add if I think of more.
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mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
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TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
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Post by mayday_golf83 on Apr 30, 2019 11:56:41 GMT -5
Highlands sculpting is all about contrasts. Smooth elevation changes next to drastic rocky areas. smoothly rounded spots that suddenly fall off a cliff. Shadows from the land itself highlighting hollows or hills. The planting itself is much like any other in that it grows where normal plants would so not on rocky spots all that well, grasses and brush really taking over low areas and more wispy stuff taking the tops of mounds and such. The style has to be yours but I think highlands really calls for contrast in terrain along with pops of color here and there while using the planting to highlight the terrain. Not terribly helpful as it's really more artistic than anything...but there you go if ya care. Having just planted a steppe course in a similar manner, I highly approve the above message. The other thing I'll say is that spam planting is your friend. Speed planting bushes, rotating as you go, really helps create a random look in a relatively short amount of time. Also, don't be afraid to throw in some partially buried trees to add to your bush arsenal.
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Post by b101 on Apr 30, 2019 12:40:42 GMT -5
Andre has done a couple of really nice streams on this recently as well on his twitch. I reckon this one is exactly what you're after, but great to get as many takes as possible:
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Post by Crazycanuck1985 on Apr 30, 2019 13:59:07 GMT -5
Ha, I'm getting that flaky reputation aren't I? Once it's done let me know and we can work on this together. I'm not great with getting ideas on to writing, so I can just do some streaming sessions instead if you want.
Or feel free to get someone else to give you a hand. Whatever you are looking for.
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Post by Terry Grayson on Apr 30, 2019 14:05:04 GMT -5
Its all about depth and scale and making it appear real
On Ardoilean I single planted every single bush following the terrain and lowering them a bit from high to low, to give the appearance of depth and proper scale for shots I knew you were going to see it better (Tee, Approach, greenside) I would plant following that same principle as I stated but plant some grasses in front of it, to add even more depth
I tried to trick your eye into believing there is more there than there actually is, and with the step down method from high to low sinking the bush or grass a bit lower the farther you follow (down) the terrain I think it got close to achieving what I was after
I hope this all makes sense, my best advice is to give the appearance of depth with planting, it goes a LONG way with the eye when you trick the player into thinking there is more there than there is, and if you do that success...
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Apr 30, 2019 15:55:36 GMT -5
Ha, I'm getting that flaky reputation aren't I? Once it's done let me know and we can work on this together. I'm not great with getting ideas on to writing, so I can just do some streaming sessions instead if you want. Or feel free to get someone else to give you a hand. Whatever you are looking for. No no, not at all! I just know you were thinking about entering the upcoming competition, and usually have plenty on your plate as-is - not to mention that you like to design hole-by-hole - so just looking for some advice
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Post by Crazycanuck1985 on Apr 30, 2019 16:06:41 GMT -5
Ah ok sounds good. I'm going to be a game-time decision at 9pm PST if I'm entering the contest. Either way I'll be streaming and giving some pointers/advice (good chance I might take on a highlands)
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Post by gamesdecent on Apr 30, 2019 16:29:19 GMT -5
Not sure how many points this will be, but here we go.... - I plant almost exclusively in patches, unless the sculpting/plans call for a big gully or whatever. - A patch normally starts with a large buried tree or, ideally, a mix of buried trees and bushes/gorse that are fairly large. I then work outwards toward the fairway with smaller bushes and grass. This way the player sees all the layers and hopefully the lighting plays well off the shadows created. - I find planting looks better in a slight depression. The light crests over the bushes in a slightly different way and shadows are more pronounced. - To that point, going toward the sun, having bushes all over the top of a hill looks dynamite. Reeb, Terry, Eric and DAM did this perfectly with Ardoilean. Much more exciting than looking at a bare hilltop. - Final thing would be to plan your course around 3 (or so) major landmarks. Make a big, well planted, gully and have 2 greensites and 2 teeboxes around it. Try and maximize the amount of times people see your best work and minimize time spent elsewhere. Will add if I think of more. This is pretty much exactly how I plant. Get a tree you like, size it down almost as small as it will go, and start sinking it into the ground until it looks like a bush. Rotate and cluster a couple together for depth and to make it less obvious that it's the same tree over and over. Get a bush or two that you like and do the same. I multiplant all my grass, usually one light and one dark so it doesn't look uniform, and the longer the draw distance the better. Prioritize tee boxes, landing area, and greensides (all angles, never know which direction someone will be putting). In my opinion, what really separates the decent planters from the great planters is how well they do believable undergrowth, how they use the lighting to accentuate it, and how well they use bushes/trees instead of grasses so it still looks planted from a distance when the grass isn't rendered.
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