|
Post by paulus on Apr 23, 2019 11:25:18 GMT -5
Up front - I was pulled in a TGC2 event a year ago - so understand completely that a lot of genuine cases are included here. But I changed my equipment and have not been close since.
However for people failing multiple times - some of us feel that longer bans should be applied - to stop people gaming the system.
The details of the ban periods/sliding scale will obviously be harder to pin down as a few will have different ideas on implementation, but as general principle - what does the wider community think?
|
|
|
Post by GW_Hope on Apr 23, 2019 11:33:43 GMT -5
My thought is if I was DQ I would find out why and fix it. If I got another in a short span of time I would feel maybe I had an unfair advantage that entire period and would agree to lose the points I gained in that time period. I don’t like bans but loss of points feels right. That said it may be difficult To set up so a standard dock of fedex would probably be easier to implement
|
|
|
Post by paulus on Apr 23, 2019 11:36:47 GMT -5
Personally, I'm not sure other penalties would act as enough of a deterrent - people want wins. I for one would trade ALL my FedEx & WGR points for a single (first!) win on Tour...
|
|
|
Post by GW_Hope on Apr 23, 2019 11:39:04 GMT -5
Personally, I'm not sure other penalties would act as enough of a deterrent - people want wins. I for one would trade ALL my FedEx & WGR points for a single (first!) win on Tour... That’s like offering 6 cents. 😀
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 12:38:28 GMT -5
Warning! Long post incoming!
Since I am one week removed from my first API pull, I will give some perspective of what goes on in the head of this known "short swinger" when the API removal of scores happens. Perhaps some background, and an overly long-winded post that many are used to by now.
I am one week into a changed swing technique after getting my first API pull last week. Did not realize I had any advantage in my swing in this version until I heard that the regular tours' Ryder Cup was being delayed because of several participants working through their swings. Nothing new in my swing technique since EA golf games pre-TGC1. After learning of the swing issue (remember this was early days of TGC2019 - before the mass Q-School even) that eventually became known as a short swing I gave myself options. I could redo my swing right then, or I could wait until I actually received an API pull to verify I was at an advantage. I chose the latter. I also gave myself options of what to do in the event of that. Try my backup controller and have that data checked to see if it was just the controller being worn, and if that was not the case then I would indeed look into changing up how I swing. So after half a year I finally got my scores API pulled last week. Poor swings during Masters week had me concentrating more specifically on my swing and the next week my scores were removed (week 24 - last week), I worked with an admin who was very helpful in giving data to help me understand exactly why I had been pulled.
I sometimes (2/3 of the time I'd say) save my round to the PS4 hard drive, and I had a record of my round that triggered the API pull of my scores. So with the data given to me by admin showing clustered shots in one area I compared them to what I actually saw on screen. This is when I became confused and it became a learning experience. It seemed every shot (save one) was right of center by the data. But when looking at the actual swing feedback, I had several shots that ended up in the center or even left of center. These include shots that are both "short swings" and full line swings.
In talking to admin, it was explained that HB weights the swing more heavily in certain areas of the swing, and for whatever reason the end of the swing is either not as important, or something in my way of swinging has the end portion not count. I assume this is the data loss portion that is alluded to sometimes in other posts I have read in the past - this is alluded to as a workaround by the short swing technique.
Anywho - I kept to my plan and am now enacting it. Assumed my swing was okay until the system in place said it was not. So I played a round with the same technique as always with another controller. That one gave a massive (almost half) amount of my shots into one single box of the data supplied for that round. So in reality, I was using the more varied controller all this time. The technique was to blame for my round being pulled. Admin showed a round from January (my best performing month this season), and I had varied shots left, center-ish, and right. Now I was clustered to the right-center.
So I am to the part of the plan where I am changing my swing. I still short swing my putts the same as before. But shots into the greens I use the same technique, but simply do NOT let go of the analog in the follow through now. Feels very different and for lack of a better term "wrong", but it is early days. Verified I had a normal shot pattern for my two rounds this week, which is all I was going for.
To the topic at hand after all of that verbiage: Do we accept that in catching those who are trying to skirt the policy with a simple score removal and no further action, are we then okay with throwing those who are NOT trying to game the system in there as well with a slightly harsher policy of a further week off? The OP mentions that they were removed and adapted their swing. How about all the others here that have had that happen once? Would you be okay with having an extra week off if it happened a second time (a proposed portion by another post) when you had no malicious intent?
The current policy is to go case by case with these API pulls with the Fair Play forum. There has been public evidence that they indeed do due diligence to specific cases where deliberate exploitation had occurred. That seems easy, right? Fairly cut and dried. But do we change the policy to cross into the more ambiguous/"grey" area that includes both those who seem like they are taking advantage of the simple score removal without known proof of their intentions AND include those who are not trying to game anything, but merely trying to fix their problem, but got caught more than once in a certain time frame? One should be okay with ALL of that when making a vote here. The easy line of thinking is to say "Yes, get rid of those trying to game the system!" I am not saying that I have the answers at all, but I am cognizant of the fact that those who are trying to work on their swing through API removals WILL get multiple pulls and it has happened already in the past.
For now, an abstention on voting from me here as I can see both sides of this issue and until I read or think of something better to suggest I am okay with case-by-case reviews as is happening now. This would be a good place to maybe vette options in a constructive manner, and I really hope it doesn't derail and can be a good learning experience for members and staff alike.
|
|
|
Post by paulus on Apr 23, 2019 13:50:16 GMT -5
Totally agree that you need to allow people to correct and that may mean leniency for a period after the first pull. For me the sliding scale would start at pull 3 - ymmv.
If you get pulled 4 times intermittently over a 2 month period, say - are you then acting in a way that is lookign to correct your unfair advantage? Perhaps not genuinely would be my take.
If as Doyley mentions this is 2 or 3 people max potentially gaming the system - then this is a non-issue - and your point about it being managed by exception is the correct approach. But until the stats are published somewhere - speculation/allusions in posts will continue to undermine.
|
|
|
Post by SweetTeeBag on Apr 23, 2019 14:21:26 GMT -5
Uh, no brainer here it seems 16-0?!?!?!
Some people I hear switch controllers and still have been hit by the API. I would think 3-4x should be a red flag enough for some severe punishment to come along as these same players are now scoring top tens. People "changing" controllers once per month as they were continually getting hit is a red flag that may not be actually the problem.
If the admins are saying you hit 12 shots in a certain range and that is the reason for their dq and if they were using a titan one next time on 8, 9, 10 of their approach shots (most important to score birds) and pass in the future they know when to use it.
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Apr 23, 2019 14:37:57 GMT -5
I got a DQ earlier this season while I was struggling with tempo. I knew why..I knew what I had did. Sometimes admitting to yourself that you're skirting the system is the hardest part
|
|
|
Post by Cyclerob on Apr 23, 2019 19:55:18 GMT -5
Got DQ'd a few times earlier with multiple controllers. Tough time adapting to getting my swing longer. Was I trying to "game" the system intentionally? No! Last resort, I completely stopped completely playing for something like a month so my muscles tried to forget my old swing. I played the Masters cold, i.e., those are the only 4 rounds I played after not touching this game for a month. Warmed up for litteraly 5 minutes and to my own amazement made the cut.
Played a couple of rounds last night, 2 shot warm up, my swing line is now longer and wonkier. Hopefully I won't be near the sin bin again from now on!
Btw, coming back to the OP's poll... should semeone like me be banned for a few weeks since I got new DS4's especially to avoid this stuff? But HB pulled a trick on many of us by changing how to the swing data is now collected and making some a us look really bad in the eyes of the API. Should I be banned because my natural swing is not to hammer my analog stick and hit the top like a gorilla? I really feel that all "finess" has been taken away from TGC2019.
Anyways...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 20:10:03 GMT -5
My right stick floats on my scuff elite on PUBG. I doubt I'll ever get flagged that is if I play TST. Way past bored with 500 under on a no assits tour. I'm sure you guys that compete know who's legit and who's not. Always knew when I played Madden competitive.
Bottom line you cheat once. Warning. Twice suspended. 3 times ....cya.
Then again the world we live in cheaters win and losers get trophies.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 20:16:55 GMT -5
For the noobs to competitive golf there was guy named tigerwoodswoodie or something like that on TW games and he would play against himself 3 hole matches to get on the top of the leaderboard.
The old school guys would remember his bs.
Ohh and let's get really honest. Most of you guys cheat the game of golf. Zoom to aim on your unicorns , green grids and tracers like you took brown acid.
😋🏌️⛳🏌️♀️🏌️🏌️♂️⛳
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 20:17:08 GMT -5
My right stick floats on my scuff elite on PUBG. I doubt I'll ever get flagged that is if I play TST. Way past bored with 500 under on a no assits tour. I'm sure you guys that compete know who's legit and who's not. Always knew when I played Madden competitive. Bottom line you cheat once. Warning. Twice suspended. 3 times ....cya. Then again the world we live in cheaters win and losers get trophies. An API pull is not considered cheating and there are specific posts here on the forums from staff to not confuse the two.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 20:26:48 GMT -5
Ok cheating isn't cheating.
Tiger agrees hombre.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 20:49:41 GMT -5
My clubs. Long right stick . It really does float. Which is bs it did it out of the box. Like the red black ? Tiger? I'm obsessed huh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 20:53:22 GMT -5
Quoting myself.
|
|