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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 10:11:00 GMT -5
Not to change the subject, but I wanted to thank you guys for providing such great feedback about the course in this thread, and also say that I'm incredibly impressed with the scoring. Some real great talent in this group. The feedback and scoring on the course are going to help immensely in creating a difficult and interesting test for the Major Championship contest.
Awesome stuff!
On behalf of all of us who have completed the 4 rounds:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 10:56:51 GMT -5
If you handed the game to just about anyone who has never played before that is exactly how they would swing it. Pull back and push forward. All these modifiied swings are called ( gaming tbe system), Somebody discovered that it’s possible to just short swing or flick and get superb accuracy. It’s there so we can’t stop it, but then to complain the game is reacting odd is ridiculous. (Gaming the system is to go against the intent and purpose of a system while technically staying within the rules. ) Once again, I developed this swing years ago long before this version and this particular way HB decided to register a swing. I came out day 1 with the short swings. So I either have a time machine and got ready for this one particular game waaaay ahead of time OR the adjustments HB made coupled with flaws in interpreting data have now made that same swing an "exploit" depending on who one asks. I again defer back to TGC1 swinggate and point out that many others had some kind of short swing naturally back then. Only PS4 had the issue of non registering swings then and the short swing phenom now is predominantly a PS4 thing. What did HB do back then after their swing tuning caused many to have issue? First they made a mocking video of a developer (I don't remember who) swinging a DS4 in front of a TV and then left the swing stay for months. Maybe it should have stayed? I don't know. Only after continued complaints did they revert it back. I switched to PC at the time before reverting this swing btuning back because on the PS4 my swing would take 6, 8, 10 times to register. Or the ball would come up "short". Once on PC the same swing reacted normally again as I was used to. Clearly there is some kind of latency issue where a PS4 isn't registering a swing the same as the others and this type of swing can be an advantage. But after years of HB doing what they wish and not wanting to take criticism on their firums (their latest forum policy is akin to "we only want happy posts here... the rest we ignore or delete now") coupled with the way they mocked an issue mentioned above? Forget it, I do not participate in their forum. Being a smaller, indie type studio can have advantages for the customer, but you also get quirkiness as well. Here being that they don't work well with people and seem to only want smoke blown you know where and wecall see their PR in how awful 2019 was rolled out at launch. Yet another discussion here where we are going over the same things? We get the same back and forth and I feel I have typed everything above once before. And like in the past I say staff here can give one of those fancy deviation charts with a tournament of mine (this week, the one I won here back in January.. I don't care). It would be the first one I have seen for my swing as well as everyone else here. I get it. Some users have adapted to this. They've changed their swing. Isn't that the point if one is trying to be competitive? To minimize errors and to accentuate what does work? It gets muddied once generalizations occur and then it is assumed that All short swing users have changed to take advantage and ALL short swing users are getting Api kicked (I am looking at you Clubhouse - Fair Play Ploicy thread). That is when one eeds to realize that when you are upset with some changing to use this method you are now going after those who have done nothing different fundamentally from day one and pass API.
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Post by mrohde4 on Mar 8, 2019 12:23:52 GMT -5
I use the chess piece method. Tried for months and never achieved the short swing. How does pressure even make a difference? The stick travels up to hit the plastic or it doesn't.... no? You don't have to believe me lol, I'm telling people what I've recently found through actual practice, I know it's true but you seem to be on a weird ideological crusade contradicting people's actual experiences (loads of people including Brad at the start of the season said their stick hits the top and can still get a short line, are they all liars?). I have no stake in this anyway, a short swing is disastrous for me on PC as it results in a fast ds pretty much every time, but as I say with driver if I want a fast I've realised I can get one more consistently with a light touch swing, which also tends to give me a short line. If you think I'm lying for some bizarre reason then go ahead and think that because I couldn't care less! Ok ok ok. Understood. No ideological crusade, just never been able to see short lines in the HUD when my stick hits the plastic. That's it. Need visual proof I suppose.
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Post by mrohde4 on Mar 8, 2019 12:59:51 GMT -5
If you handed the game to just about anyone who has never played before that is exactly how they would swing it. Pull back and push forward. All these modifiied swings are called ( gaming tbe system), Somebody discovered that it’s possible to just short swing or flick and get superb accuracy. It’s there so we can’t stop it, but then to complain the game is reacting odd is ridiculous. (Gaming the system is to go against the intent and purpose of a system while technically staying within the rules. ) Once again, I developed this swing years ago long before this version and this particular way HB decided to register a swing. I came out day 1 with the short swings. So I either have a time machine and got ready for this one particular game waaaay ahead of time OR the adjustments HB made coupled with flaws in interpreting data have now made that same swing an "exploit" depending on who one asks. I again defer back to TGC1 swinggate and point out that many others had some kind of short swing naturally back then. Only PS4 had the issue of non registering swings then and the short swing phenom now is predominantly a PS4 thing. What did HB do back then after their swing tuning caused many to have issue? First they made a mocking video of a developer (I don't remember who) swinging a DS4 in front of a TV and then left the swing stay for months. Maybe it should have stayed? I don't know. Only after continued complaints did they revert it back. I switched to PC at the time before reverting this swing btuning back because on the PS4 my swing would take 6, 8, 10 times to register. Or the ball would come up "short". Once on PC the same swing reacted normally again as I was used to. Clearly there is some kind of latency issue where a PS4 isn't registering a swing the same as the others and this type of swing can be an advantage. But after years of HB doing what they wish and not wanting to take criticism on their firums (their latest forum policy is akin to "we only want happy posts here... the rest we ignore or delete now") coupled with the way they mocked an issue mentioned above? Forget it, I do not participate in their forum. Being a smaller, indie type studio can have advantages for the customer, but you also get quirkiness as well. Here being that they don't work well with people and seem to only want smoke blown you know where and wecall see their PR in how awful 2019 was rolled out at launch. Yet another discussion here where we are going over the same things? We get the same back and forth and I feel I have typed everything above once before. And like in the past I say staff here can give one of those fancy deviation charts with a tournament of mine (this week, the one I won here back in January.. I don't care). It would be the first one I have seen for my swing as well as everyone else here. I get it. Some users have adapted to this. They've changed their swing. Isn't that the point if one is trying to be competitive? To minimize errors and to accentuate what does work? It gets muddied once generalizations occur and then it is assumed that All short swing users have changed to take advantage and ALL short swing users are getting Api kicked (I am looking at you Clubhouse - Fair Play Ploicy thread). That is when one eeds to realize that when you are upset with some changing to use this method you are now going after those who have done nothing different fundamentally from day one and pass API. First off, you could make good money as a technical writer for instructional manuals for putting together complex machinery and furniture. Get on the horn with IKEA. Your description of your swing method was fascinating, and I definitely learned something. My hand is up for derailing this thread, I've just never understood how short lines appear in the HUD when the stick hits the plastic. That's never happened to me despite hours of messing around, and I've never played live with someone where it happens. I suppose the swing mechanic which takes into account factors of speed, direction, and tempo is far more complex than a mere 'hits the plastic therefore full line' data registration mechanic. And since I started the Clubhouse thread about the Fair Play Policy, I say with full confidence that the intent was never to 'go after' short swingers. Rather, my belief is that consequences should accompany multiple violations regardless of how the violations occur. For someone to get API kicked 20% of their tournaments with no consequences, while the other 80% are top 10s and 25s with full points awarded, seems flawed to me. No incentive or motivation to change anything, therefore compliance becomes a suggestion, not a requirement. Bob I fully agree that not all short swingers recently 'improved' their swing and not all short swingers are getting API kicked. But at the risk of getting accused of attacking, I'd wager that a majority of API pulls in PGA this season were players who (if we could access video) would show primarily short lines. Combine that with the known advantages of truncated data, and arguments are quickly formed claiming the game's competitiveness is distorted.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 13:20:13 GMT -5
Once again, I developed this swing years ago long before this version and this particular way HB decided to register a swing. I came out day 1 with the short swings. So I either have a time machine and got ready for this one particular game waaaay ahead of time OR the adjustments HB made coupled with flaws in interpreting data have now made that same swing an "exploit" depending on who one asks. I again defer back to TGC1 swinggate and point out that many others had some kind of short swing naturally back then. Only PS4 had the issue of non registering swings then and the short swing phenom now is predominantly a PS4 thing. What did HB do back then after their swing tuning caused many to have issue? First they made a mocking video of a developer (I don't remember who) swinging a DS4 in front of a TV and then left the swing stay for months. Maybe it should have stayed? I don't know. Only after continued complaints did they revert it back. I switched to PC at the time before reverting this swing btuning back because on the PS4 my swing would take 6, 8, 10 times to register. Or the ball would come up "short". Once on PC the same swing reacted normally again as I was used to. Clearly there is some kind of latency issue where a PS4 isn't registering a swing the same as the others and this type of swing can be an advantage. But after years of HB doing what they wish and not wanting to take criticism on their firums (their latest forum policy is akin to "we only want happy posts here... the rest we ignore or delete now") coupled with the way they mocked an issue mentioned above? Forget it, I do not participate in their forum. Being a smaller, indie type studio can have advantages for the customer, but you also get quirkiness as well. Here being that they don't work well with people and seem to only want smoke blown you know where and wecall see their PR in how awful 2019 was rolled out at launch. Yet another discussion here where we are going over the same things? We get the same back and forth and I feel I have typed everything above once before. And like in the past I say staff here can give one of those fancy deviation charts with a tournament of mine (this week, the one I won here back in January.. I don't care). It would be the first one I have seen for my swing as well as everyone else here. I get it. Some users have adapted to this. They've changed their swing. Isn't that the point if one is trying to be competitive? To minimize errors and to accentuate what does work? It gets muddied once generalizations occur and then it is assumed that All short swing users have changed to take advantage and ALL short swing users are getting Api kicked (I am looking at you Clubhouse - Fair Play Ploicy thread). That is when one eeds to realize that when you are upset with some changing to use this method you are now going after those who have done nothing different fundamentally from day one and pass API. First off, you could make good money as a technical writer for instructional manuals for putting together complex machinery and furniture. Get on the horn with IKEA. Your description of your swing method was fascinating, and I definitely learned something. LOL at the IKEA comment. My hand is up for derailing this thread, I've just never understood how short lines appear in the HUD when the stick hits the plastic. That's never happened to me despite hours of messing around, and I've never played live with someone where it happens. I suppose the swing mechanic which takes into account factors of speed, direction, and tempo is far more complex than a mere 'hits the plastic therefore full line' data registration mechanic. And since I started the Clubhouse thread about the Fair Play Policy, I say with full confidence that the intent was never to 'go after' short swingers. Rather, my belief is that consequences should accompany multiple violations regardless of how the violations occur. For someone to get API kicked 20% of their tournaments with no consequences, while the other 80% are top 10s and 25s with full points awarded, seems flawed to me. No incentive or motivation to change anything, therefore compliance becomes a suggestion, not a requirement. Bob I fully agree that not all short swingers recently 'improved' their swing and not all short swingers are getting API kicked. But at the risk of getting accused of attacking, I'd wager that a majority of API pulls in PGA this season were players who (if we could access video) would show primarily short lines. Combine that with the known advantages of truncated data, and arguments are quickly formed claiming the game's competitiveness is distorted. I have a habit of saying a lot and saying a little - I'd imagine it leaves people somewhat more confused than before they read it. Numbers are my thing, not words. So my bad at not articulating a bit better and rambling a lot.
I am staying out of the Fair Play Policy thread because I don't want to derail it. Good discussion there.
I jumped in this discussion as I read that someone was saying something is BS which I have found in my experience is not BS and I can do as well.
As a percentage of active users on a tour, I'd be very surprised if PGA wasn't by far the highest % of API pulls. But I'd also bet that was true in TGC2 as well for the Rocher/World Tour.
Not arguing that the competitiveness is distorted. PS4 in general is an advantage over XB1 and PC as well. Short swinging on PS4 seemingly puts users near, just below, just over, or way over the API line depending on the user, their controller, and their accuracy that week.
So while it would seem a bit odd for an API flag personally after 25 or so (PGA and TST) tournaments in season five, I would not be surprised like it was something out of nowhere. I have another controller I can try and tweaks, modifications, etc. are all known to me to be options and I would work with staff here in the FPP thread.
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Post by SloanerTW on Mar 8, 2019 13:36:13 GMT -5
It actually does hit the top. I can do both and it is the letting go of the stick that can result in short lines. the short line probably has to do with lag as your not holding the stick at the end of the swing so it may not pick it up. If you cant short line try pulling the stick back with your left index finger and legit flick the stick with an actual flicking motion with your right hand (like your flicking some ones ear, or a pea across the table). You'd be amazed at the results you can get and may learn a thing about how tempo works too. Out of interest Steve, as you're usually pretty open about this stuff: When you got pulled, were you using a swing that regularly registered short, or your old "to the top" swing? The problem when I got pulled was I would get swings that didnt register and go perfectly straight. It was my old controller and I guess it was dieing. Since I switched to a new controller i don' see those kinds of lines anymore and it actually plays better tempo wise.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 8, 2019 14:08:17 GMT -5
On the topic of the tournament at hand...
Not sure I've ever put off/not wanted to play the final couple of rounds in an event as much as this one. Maybe it's partly because I know what's coming on the course, maybe it's slight burnout, who knows, but whatever it is, don't think it bodes well for my final 2 rounds worth of scores lol.
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Post by fadgewacker on Mar 8, 2019 14:09:43 GMT -5
Out of interest Steve, as you're usually pretty open about this stuff: When you got pulled, were you using a swing that regularly registered short, or your old "to the top" swing? The problem when I got pulled was I would get swings that didnt register and go perfectly straight. It was my old controller and I guess it was dieing. Since I switched to a new controller i don' see those kinds of lines anymore and it actually plays better tempo wise. Got ya. Were they coming up short though? I’m just trying to build a picture of % DQ vs short, including those I know to swing full by default.
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Post by Mark (Kram) on Mar 8, 2019 14:14:35 GMT -5
I rarely get a full line in the HUD. I was asked to get another controller several months ago and I did, I rarely get a full line with that either. My swing is precisely the same as TGCT2. Tempo specific and generally messes up when crowds are added to tourneys. I'm not deliberately doing anything wrong and am just swinging my swing. I useless anyway now, so I guess there's less emphasis on me because I'm not competitive with my scores. That being said, I'm guessing, also, that I cannot be in breach of the FPP, otherwise my scores would be pulled!
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 8, 2019 15:43:54 GMT -5
Going to throw something out there...I think it's time for the end of dual water planes, at least on tour used courses. As with this course, most/many designers will publish a version of their course for tour use. I don't think it would be a bad idea to ask those designers who have utilized the dual water plane trick to remove the secondary water body, and here's why...
Hole 11, round 4. Hit a really solid 2nd shot toward the front pin, risky shot sure, but one that I needed to take on. I missed the front edge of the green by a yard or two, landing into the light rough bank and rolling back down into the water. That's fair, I didn't hit the shot required of me, no problem. I was offered a drop on the bank, and since I'd landed just shy of the green and rolled back down said bank, figured "yea ok, that's right." I found my ball sitting at a height, after the drop, which appeared to be in between above/below the top water plane. Having never seen this, I had no idea what was going to happen, but I thought "a little more power here, just to be safe." Needless to say, the 100% LW chip never left the clubface, and I found myself with another waterball...somehow. Ended up flopping way long just to get it out, but this seems like an issue that we can EASILY avoid in the future - one that is a really round/event killer if and when it happens.
GL to all left to play, hope you score a bit better than I did over the final 36!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 15:51:21 GMT -5
Going to throw something out there...I think it's time for the end of dual water planes, at least on tour used courses. As with this course, most/many designers will publish a version of their course for tour use. I don't think it would be a bad idea to ask those designers who have utilized the dual water plane trick to remove the secondary water body, and here's why...
Hole 11, round 4. Hit a really solid 2nd shot toward the front pin, risky shot sure, but one that I needed to take on. I missed the front edge of the green by a yard or two, landing into the light rough bank and rolling back down into the water. That's fair, I didn't hit the shot required of me, no problem. I was offered a drop on the bank, and since I'd landed just shy of the green and rolled back down said bank, figured "yea ok, that's right." I found my ball sitting at a height, after the drop, which appeared to be in between above/below the top water plane. Having never seen this, I had no idea what was going to happen, but I thought "a little more power here, just to be safe." Needless to say, the 100% LW chip never left the clubface, and I found myself with another waterball...somehow. Ended up flopping way long just to get it out, but this seems like an issue that we can EASILY avoid in the future - one that is a really round/event killer if and when it happens.
GL to all left to play, hope you score a bit better than I did over the final 36!
If only the water edges weren't so ugly. I've opted not to use the dual planes on mine for that reason. I was playtesting a hole and got that drop and it's just not acceptable. I'm sorry that happened to you though. Maybe make a post on the tip/tricks so designers know not to do it in sensitive areas at least?
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Mar 8, 2019 15:54:14 GMT -5
Going to throw something out there...I think it's time for the end of dual water planes, at least on tour used courses. As with this course, most/many designers will publish a version of their course for tour use. I don't think it would be a bad idea to ask those designers who have utilized the dual water plane trick to remove the secondary water body, and here's why...
Hole 11, round 4. Hit a really solid 2nd shot toward the front pin, risky shot sure, but one that I needed to take on. I missed the front edge of the green by a yard or two, landing into the light rough bank and rolling back down into the water. That's fair, I didn't hit the shot required of me, no problem. I was offered a drop on the bank, and since I'd landed just shy of the green and rolled back down said bank, figured "yea ok, that's right." I found my ball sitting at a height, after the drop, which appeared to be in between above/below the top water plane. Having never seen this, I had no idea what was going to happen, but I thought "a little more power here, just to be safe." Needless to say, the 100% LW chip never left the clubface, and I found myself with another waterball...somehow. Ended up flopping way long just to get it out, but this seems like an issue that we can EASILY avoid in the future - one that is a really round/event killer if and when it happens.
GL to all left to play, hope you score a bit better than I did over the final 36!
If only the water edges weren't so ugly. I've opted not to use the dual planes on mine for that reason. I was playtesting a hole and got that drop and it's just not acceptable. I'm sorry that happened to you though. Maybe make a post on the tip/tricks so designers know not to do it in sensitive areas at least? No it’s all good, sh%$ happens, not like I was in contention anyway lol. Think it’s just a move to place fairness of playability/negate dumb HB bugs before they happen, for the sake of the competition. I use them all the time myself, but would certainly be willing to rework something for tour use to avoid such an issue, and don’t think it’s an unreasonable request of designers that have courses going on tour when possible.
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gcoop28
Caddy
Posts: 19
TGCT Name: Grant Cooper
Tour: PGA
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Post by gcoop28 on Mar 8, 2019 16:08:11 GMT -5
What a stupid course. How this could possibly be chosen over bay hill is embarrassing
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Post by jwfickett on Mar 8, 2019 20:24:29 GMT -5
What a stupid course. How this could possibly be chosen over bay hill is embarrassing Yeah the designer is a dick! @!$# that guy!
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Post by CuseHokie on Mar 9, 2019 0:19:53 GMT -5
Going to throw something out there...I think it's time for the end of dual water planes, at least on tour used courses. As with this course, most/many designers will publish a version of their course for tour use. I don't think it would be a bad idea to ask those designers who have utilized the dual water plane trick to remove the secondary water body, and here's why...
Hole 11, round 4. Hit a really solid 2nd shot toward the front pin, risky shot sure, but one that I needed to take on. I missed the front edge of the green by a yard or two, landing into the light rough bank and rolling back down into the water. That's fair, I didn't hit the shot required of me, no problem. I was offered a drop on the bank, and since I'd landed just shy of the green and rolled back down said bank, figured "yea ok, that's right." I found my ball sitting at a height, after the drop, which appeared to be in between above/below the top water plane. Having never seen this, I had no idea what was going to happen, but I thought "a little more power here, just to be safe." Needless to say, the 100% LW chip never left the clubface, and I found myself with another waterball...somehow. Ended up flopping way long just to get it out, but this seems like an issue that we can EASILY avoid in the future - one that is a really round/event killer if and when it happens.
GL to all left to play, hope you score a bit better than I did over the final 36!
⛄️ 😔
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